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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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ssuprnova
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Location: Saigon
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 Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| whiteshirtredtie wrote: |
Hey! I heard from the incumbent teacher again and she said that I should 100% not come there. She says the director only reported her working there since January although she's been there since November and that she's refuses to pay her last month's wages.
I'm pretty upset about the situation since it's so late in the process but now I'm thinking I may just have to go to a different country. I don't know....
One thing that also got me wondering was that a few days ago the director (her name is Julie) emailed me asking if I could buy the plane ticket instead, and that she would reimburse me when I got there since she believes it's easier to get a ticket here in the States. I told her I can't afford it and she said she'd give me a call this week.
So, let me be clear on this - although I applied for this visa with this school's details I can still find another school and start working there? |
Well, a word of advice. If you still come here despite the red flags then you might want to stretch as much as you can. The boss will most likely require you to grab your ankles quite often. |
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West Coast Tatterdemalion
Joined: 31 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:31 am Post subject: |
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As someone who has a few years in Korea under his belt, I can only say that you would be a fool to work at such a place. As one poster said, unless there was the possibility that you'd be homeless on the streets back home, I certainly wouldn't work at such a place. Red flags all over the place and you are pretty certain to get screwed. As far as the airfarething, NEVER pay for your flight to Korea(unless you know the owner or have some experience with the place). It seems that schools in Korea are getting cocky because of the current global situation and more and more are demanding that people pay their way over. Not only do you have to deal with the hassle of all that paperwork(and the costs involved) and, thanks to the reputation of the hagwon business over here, the potential of getting screwed out of money, but now they want teachers to start paying for the privilege?? Crazy. Pretty soon, they'll probably be wanting people to pay rent as well.
As far as your visa situation, yeah, you'll have to get the documents all over again. It sucks. But that is bureaucracy for you. You'll have to wait for 90 days(like the other posters have said) before it expires. Still, I would rather do that than go to a shady school that is going to mess with my pay and probably cause me a crapload of stress. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| whiteshirtredtie wrote: |
Hey! I heard from the incumbent teacher again and she said that I should 100% not come there. She says the director only reported her working there since January although she's been there since November and that she's refuses to pay her last month's wages.
I'm pretty upset about the situation since it's so late in the process but now I'm thinking I may just have to go to a different country. I don't know....
One thing that also got me wondering was that a few days ago the director (her name is Julie) emailed me asking if I could buy the plane ticket instead, and that she would reimburse me when I got there since she believes it's easier to get a ticket here in the States. I told her I can't afford it and she said she'd give me a call this week.
So, let me be clear on this - although I applied for this visa with this school's details I can still find another school and start working there? |
I think it's as adjoshi says: 90 days. Then you'd have to add on lead time of applying for new one only after the 90 has expired, so let's say 120.
Which in effect makes for an unacceptable wait.
I would buy the story that Julie sees more difficulty arranging the ticket from Korea b/c her debit card only works within Korea. Same happened with me once, making me all agitated, but turned out to be genuine.
My problem with the departing teacher is this: she had ample time to discern that Julie is a crook, but told you everything was on the up and up. Now everything evidently comes as a big shock to her; outstanding pension payments, the unpaid notice month salary, retarded starting date....you can't put any faith in her statements.
I'm saying that you will be better off by pressing forward with this one.
Changing schools will incur grievous delays and unforeseen pitfalls, while change of country will likely get you less money and no reimbursement of airfare.
And if it doesn't work out it won't be the end of the world, so relax and enjoy.. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| West Coast Tatterdemalion wrote: |
| Still, I would rather do that than go to a shady school that is going to mess with my pay and probably cause me a crapload of stress. |
But you can't guarantee that the next one will be any better, now can you?
If 60 to 80% of hakwons are shady in varying degree, the odds are pretty good that after a 120 day wait and hassle/expence of new paperwork, the OP will be back to square one.
Or worse, even. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| So, let me be clear on this - although I applied for this visa with this school's details I can still find another school and start working there? |
I suggest you find another school first. Think of you being immigration. Someone comes up to you asking you to cancel their visa so they can stay in Korea and find another school. This doesn't look good on the person. There is no guarantee they will get another school. Are you going to take this chance to ok them?
However, if they come into immigration with a someone from the new school and all the documents ready to go for a transfer of location and money to pay for it, which is easier? To transfer an existing visa or go through the paperwork of cancelling?
Find another school that is willing to go with you to immigration. Have them schedule an appointment. Don't just walk in.
Increase your chances, and I believe you will be able to get around this.
As far as purchasing a plane ticket is concerned, you may need to go alone on this one. If you want to get another school, you should just buy it yourself. Chalk it up, cut your losses, ask the new school for a settlement allowance (usually 300,00 won). You will be able to interview in person when you arrive. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So, let me be clear on this - although I applied for this visa with this school's details I can still find another school and start working there? |
I suggest you find another school first. Think of you being immigration. Someone comes up to you asking you to cancel their visa so they can stay in Korea and find another school. This doesn't look good on the person. There is no guarantee they will get another school. Are you going to take this chance to ok them?
However, if they come into immigration with a someone from the new school and all the documents ready to go for a transfer of location and money to pay for it, which is easier? To transfer an existing visa or go through the paperwork of cancelling?
Find another school that is willing to go with you to immigration. Have them schedule an appointment. Don't just walk in.
Increase your chances, and I believe you will be able to get around this.
As far as purchasing a plane ticket is concerned, you may need to go alone on this one. If you want to get another school, you should just buy it yourself. Chalk it up, cut your losses, ask the new school for a settlement allowance (usually 300,00 won). You will be able to interview in person when you arrive. |
Well, there you see it OP, that's what'll happen to you if you don't accept my advice and take the job. You'll land up in weird scenarios as typically sketched in the above poster's reply.
He wants you to find this elusive school that is
a) a paragon of rectitude (or needle in a haystack)
b) needs a teacher 120 days away a la Korean style planning
c) will contentedly overlook your 'complications' with a line of other delectable teachers already wanting their job
d) get you to accept the sum of 300 000 won in lieu of regular airfare
e) wants you, a newbie, to fly Korea on tourist visa, requiring round trip airfare of say 1800 000won. Then after iffy immigration negotiation, do a visa run to Japan only to find out the 300 000 was for this Japan visa trip.
Do you know what a precarious situation you'll be in? At that rather despondent moment you'll be wishing you had never heard of Daves. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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In rebuttal to the above poster, I ask this person to also judge the merits of going to another country instead to avoid my suggestion or taking the job offer and waiting a year after being treated far worse than the loss of airfare I mentioned.
| Quote: |
| a) a paragon of rectitude (or needle in a haystack) |
That is one painful haystack. I have been receiving offers for jobs in Korea for the past year. Recently, I changed jobs in China and I am quite content here in Beijing. One reason why I stayed in China before moving to Beijing was that I didn't have the CBC documents. However, I have had plenty of good offers. This notion it is a needle in a haystack is not true. There are plenty of job offers. I also think that since the economy is getting better, people who only came to Korea because of it are finding they don't like it as much. This means they are returning to the states. I feel there will be better job offers down the road because of this.
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| b) needs a teacher 120 days away a la Korean style planning |
I have no idea what this means. If you have your visa, it just needs to be transferred to a new location and then apply for the ARC. Being outside of Korea does cast some gray area. This is why I suggest going to Korea first. Doing things from afar is going to involve more procedures and things you could get done in person quicker. An immigration officer is not going to just change things from a phone call from someone in their home country claiming they will be in Korea. It doesn't work that way. You need to bring everything with you to immigration, in person. That's the way it's done. I have done this 5 times, and in 5 different areas (Daegu, Seoul, Suwon, Uijeongbu, and Incheon) and it was always the same. Same procedure.
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| c) will contentedly overlook your 'complications' with a line of other delectable teachers already wanting their job |
If you go to Korea, attend an interview, and sign the contract then there are no other people. It's just you. If you do things from afar in your home country, then there will always be 100 people that can take cuts in front of you if they are already in Korea.
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| d) get you to accept the sum of 300 000 won in lieu of regular airfare |
Yes, I think it is worth it to go to the country and find the job in person. Visit the school, visit the principal/hagwon owner, see the apartment. Then sign the contract. Maybe if the original poster did that, they wouldn't be in this mess.
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e) wants you, a newbie, to fly Korea on tourist visa, requiring round trip airfare of say 1800 000won. Then after iffy immigration negotiation, do a visa run to Japan only to find out the 300 000 was for this Japan visa trip.
I have never needed round trip airfare for visiting Korea on a tourist visa. Have the rules changed recently? Why would you need to do a visa run to Japan if you are transferring an existing visa over to a new school? |
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| Do you know what a precarious situation you'll be in? |
Yes, do you know how it will be to have full control of your life? You will be able to choose the school, visit them, and then make an educated decision instead of trusting a recruiter and finding out later it wasn't good and that you should have visited the school first before signing a contract with them.
After all that wouldn't be precarious, no, not in the least 
Maybe you should just have your computer randomly select a recruiter, then have it randomly select a contract to sign. Make it randomly pick your salary and don't worry about the other details. Let the school decide. Then when a previous teacher tries to warn you about the school, ignore them. Obey your master at all costs. Don't think for yourself. Don't get the facts. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| In rebuttal to the above poster, I ask this person to also judge the merits of going to another country instead to avoid my suggestion or taking the job offer and waiting a year after being treated far worse than the loss of airfare I mentioned. |
I'm on the threshold of understanding this sentence, but need one final push.
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| This notion it is a needle in a haystack is not true. There are plenty of job offers. |
I meant a good hakwon as the needle in haystack.
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| I feel there will be better job offers down the road because of this. |
We're talking the here and now.
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| I have no idea what this means. |
I'm sorry, this is outside of your meaning. In any event, pursuit of new docs will take that time.
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| Yes, I think it is worth it to go to the country and find the job in person. Visit the school, visit the principal/hagwon owner, see the apartment. |
Frankly, I doubt that a greenhorn is up to appraising a school aside from glaring apartment deficiency.
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| I have never needed round trip airfare for visiting Korea on a tourist visa. Have the rules changed recently? |
You must have a million dollar smile or what?
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| Why would you need to do a visa run to Japan if you are transferring an existing visa over to a new school? |
You've got me here. Hope the spurned hakwon will give a Letter of Release. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| I meant a good hakwon as the needle in haystack. |
1. So, that means you should gamble from afar or see in person?
2. Should you do more beforehand to make sure it is a good hagwon?
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| We're talking the here and now. |
So, in the here and now, I wouldn't commit to a contract or hagwon that wasn't good and would limit me later. I would get out of it since the contract period hasn't started. That is in the here and now.
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| In any event, pursuit of new docs will take that time. |
You apparently don't know how to change location of workplace then with immigration.
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| Frankly, I doubt that a greenhorn is up to appraising a school aside from glaring apartment deficiency. |
If you visit the school it's not hard to see what it will be like. My first job sucked too. I signed it thinking it was great. I got there, first day I knew it wasn't right. I left after 3 months and then stayed with the second for 3.5 years. Why did this happen? Because I VISITED THE SCHOOL FIRST. The first one was just based on promises.
Since then, I have always visited the school or made sure I collected enough information to know the risks I was getting into. You shouldn't need to be an experienced teacher in this case. Worst case scenario is that you get taken advantage of and you don't realize it because you see the school as good when actually it isn't.
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| You must have a million dollar smile or what? |
Does that mean the rules haven't changed? If they haven't, Americans get 90 days. I was given 90 days.
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| You've got me here. Hope the spurned hakwon will give a Letter of Release. |
You don't need a letter of release if the contract period hasn't started yet. As stated earlier, I have been through the process and was able to change location of workplace before the contract period started. They didn't ask for any letter of release. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
So, that means you should gamble from afar or see in person? |
Seeing in person over a day or two will gain you nothing. They give chinese eyes and treat you like royalty.
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| So, in the here and now, I wouldn't commit to a contract or hagwon that wasn't good and would limit me later. I would get out of it since the contract period hasn't started. That is in the here and now. |
My response was to your speculation of a dropoff in supply of teachers owing to an improved US economy.
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| You apparently don't know how to change location of workplace then with immigration. |
You got that right!
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| I left after 3 months and then stayed with the second for 3.5 years. Why did this happen? Because I VISITED THE SCHOOL FIRST. The first one was just based on promises. |
Pure good fortune. I think you are partial to confusing good fortune with your own dexterity. Maybe we are all prey to this.
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| Does that mean the rules haven't changed? If they haven't, Americans get 90 days. I was given 90 days. |
No!! Haha, I'm on about tourist visa attracting the more expensive round trip ticket. Who cares how many days one gets? I'm trying to get my mind around how you could have misunderstood me here.
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| You don't need a letter of release if the contract period hasn't started yet. As stated earlier, I have been through the process and was able to change location of workplace before the contract period started. They didn't ask for any letter of release. |
Ok, I'll accept this. But you don't mind if I be the worried man? |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Ok, lifeinkorea, I think I'm starting to see the light.
You say
1. OP should receive the visa number
2. advise the school that it's a no-show
3. fly directly to Korea on own coin.
4. get a job and negotiate a compensatory amount
5.go to immi with new director
6. use the existing visa number for the new job.
Sounds like a plan. |
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West Coast Tatterdemalion
Joined: 31 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Why are you encouraging someone to sign a crap contract? They've lied to him/her, what's to debate? You don't start any kind of relationship built on a lie. Period. There are plenty of good hagwons out there, if you do your homework. To say that it is comparable to a "needle in a haystack" is blatantly untrue. Hopefully this person did the right thing and decided not to take that gig. I'd rather wait 120 days to find a good job rather than work 1 day at such a job and the eventual stress it will undoubtedly cause. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| West Coast Tatterdemalion wrote: |
| Why are you encouraging someone to sign a crap contract? They've lied to him/her, what's to debate? You don't start any kind of relationship built on a lie. Period. There are plenty of good hagwons out there, if you do your homework. To say that it is comparable to a "needle in a haystack" is blatantly untrue. Hopefully this person did the right thing and decided not to take that gig. I'd rather wait 120 days to find a good job rather than work 1 day at such a job and the eventual stress it will undoubtedly cause. |
Tatts, all that booze is getting the better of you. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| They lied to you, don't come to Korea on a visa issued for that job. Make sure the visa gets cancelled or not issued. After that find another job while you're still in your home country. Money does not go far in Korea if you don't have a job. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:25 am Post subject: |
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My apologies to lifeinkorea, I was hazy on what he was saying.
He says that the contract not having been consummated, has its visa number still up for grabs and can be transfered to another school.
Thus bypassing obtaining new documents and observing the 90 days.
He says that immi would treat the matter with reserve unless a Korean was at hand to explain things away.
I imagine the concerns of the OP are airfare and waltzing around Korea at own cost looking for a job. Daunting for a newbie.
All things considered I would still take the original job if I were the OP.
The only thing that sticks in my craw is the 60 mins per class. Even that concern is negated by what the contract says; time can be taken between classes for prep and moving about.
Just move nice and slow. |
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