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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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 Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Funny how they talk about lost money...
The Gyeongui line is fantastic but way too many resources went into it. I mean, they spent a small fortune for huge stations when its only partially active. For example- Baegma station has a parking lot above however it isn't in use. Why build it?
I like to use the underground as much as I can- but it stinks of BO and soju 70% of the time. What's more, it's slower than the bus and usually people can't get a seat unless they are near the end of the line or during extreme times (early morning or late late at night) |
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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Just get the commuter card. I travel from dongducheon to dongdaemun every day. Morning and night. Only pay 50,000 a month, covers 60 rides for 30 days. At the discount fare your paying vs regular fare. You get your money's worth after 30, or 40 rides. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
Give senior citizens a discount, but not a completely free ride.
And cut the spending on new maps etc. in the cars when the old ones are perfectly good. And why install new monitors every 5 meters or so along the platform? There is a lot of waste that could be cut.
I think it's hard to justify raising fares when you're extending so many lines and increasing ridership and thus lowering the quality of the service you're providing. Charging more for less is what they're trying to do. |
Given the overall costs, things like monitors are trivial. It might seem like a lot to us, but to a system of that size and volume, it's a minuscule percentage. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Last I checked seniors in Calgary, for example, paid like $35/year for unlimited transit.
Even, 5000won/month might be enough. |
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NSMatt
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| DaHu wrote: |
| NSMatt wrote: |
| PigeonFart wrote: |
| The Seoul public transport system is staggeringly inexpensive. A ten or twenty percent increase would still result in a cheap and efficient public transport system. If only other cities had such a good system. |
Indeed. It's nonsensical to run a deficit when the fare could be raised without causing financial hardship to the general public. |
It WOULD cause financial hardship to people. Who said it wouldn't? |
The rate of change hasn't even kept up with inflation. If you want to consider any rate increase to be 'financial hardship' then continue go ahead and believe that. The rate of change has been far less than almost every other consumer item. Prolonged deficits will cost far more in the long run and therefore cause true financial hardship |
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CtotheB
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:04 am Post subject: |
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Wow, amazing that free rides to bored old folks accounts for over 40 percent of the operating losses.
Also I love how the article misspelled "fare". Fail. |
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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| CtotheB wrote: |
Wow, amazing that free rides to bored old folks accounts for over 40 percent of the operating losses.
Also I love how the article misspelled "fare". Fail. |
It's a lot of people riding all of the time. Remember, they're on the subway from opening to closing time. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:38 am Post subject: |
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not sure about this but havent their labor costs gone down in the past few years because i dont think a majority of the stations are staffed as much as in past years, the station offices where you could buy tickets etc are all closed.
on the subject of senior citizens i say from age 65-70 say make the fare 500 won and then free over age 70, that will make up a bunch of the deficit |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
Give senior citizens a discount, but not a completely free ride.
And cut the spending on new maps etc. in the cars when the old ones are perfectly good. And why install new monitors every 5 meters or so along the platform? There is a lot of waste that could be cut.
I think it's hard to justify raising fares when you're extending so many lines and increasing ridership and thus lowering the quality of the service you're providing. Charging more for less is what they're trying to do. |
Given the overall costs, things like monitors are trivial. It might seem like a lot to us, but to a system of that size and volume, it's a minuscule percentage. |
The monitors, the screen doors, the escalators that are installed and aren't used, and the graft that accompany them adds up, especially when it's constant. There's always something more being done to these stations. And thre are a lot of stations.
When you're running a deficit do you keep spending with the idea it's "trivial" or with the idea you can eventually pass it on to riders?
Your posts regarding operating costs leave out one important factor--is the system being operated efficiently and thus said costs are reasonable or is it not and the costs are needlessly inflated. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| sojusucks wrote: |
| CtotheB wrote: |
Wow, amazing that free rides to bored old folks accounts for over 40 percent of the operating losses.
Also I love how the article misspelled "fare". Fail. |
It's a lot of people riding all of the time. Remember, they're on the subway from opening to closing time. |
And they're fierce. To get a seat on the Bundang line you've got to be quick. And then it's usually not worth it because you end up having to get up for some oldster. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
not sure about this but havent their labor costs gone down in the past few years because i dont think a majority of the stations are staffed as much as in past years, the station offices where you could buy tickets etc are all closed.
on the subject of senior citizens i say from age 65-70 say make the fare 500 won and then free over age 70, that will make up a bunch of the deficit |
Probably not. As many people have said, alot of those older people are simply going there because it is free. Making them pay will likely half their patronage or more.
The way to make the subway make a profit is to raise fares to 2,000 base fare up to 3,000 for the furthest routes.
Bus fares are cheaper but then again they are subsidised too. If the subway has to make a profit then buses would have to also to not distort things. Express inter-city buses run at a profit but inner city buses are run by local governments with fares at around 1,000 won in many places.
One way to enforce discipline into the Subway would be to privatise it. However there would need to be management and close oversight to see that public needs were still being met. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
not sure about this but havent their labor costs gone down in the past few years because i dont think a majority of the stations are staffed as much as in past years, the station offices where you could buy tickets etc are all closed.
on the subject of senior citizens i say from age 65-70 say make the fare 500 won and then free over age 70, that will make up a bunch of the deficit |
Probably not. As many people have said, alot of those older people are simply going there because it is free. Making them pay will likely half their patronage or more.
The way to make the subway make a profit is to raise fares to 2,000 base fare up to 3,000 for the furthest routes.
Bus fares are cheaper but then again they are subsidised too. If the subway has to make a profit then buses would have to also to not distort things. Express inter-city buses run at a profit but inner city buses are run by local governments with fares at around 1,000 won in many places.
One way to enforce discipline into the Subway would be to privatise it. However there would need to be management and close oversight to see that public needs were still being met. |
Privatizing did not work out at all for the trains in England. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
not sure about this but havent their labor costs gone down in the past few years because i dont think a majority of the stations are staffed as much as in past years, the station offices where you could buy tickets etc are all closed.
on the subject of senior citizens i say from age 65-70 say make the fare 500 won and then free over age 70, that will make up a bunch of the deficit |
Probably not. As many people have said, alot of those older people are simply going there because it is free. Making them pay will likely half their patronage or more.
The way to make the subway make a profit is to raise fares to 2,000 base fare up to 3,000 for the furthest routes.
Bus fares are cheaper but then again they are subsidised too. If the subway has to make a profit then buses would have to also to not distort things. Express inter-city buses run at a profit but inner city buses are run by local governments with fares at around 1,000 won in many places.
One way to enforce discipline into the Subway would be to privatise it. However there would need to be management and close oversight to see that public needs were still being met. |
Privatizing did not work out at all for the trains in England. |
They were not exactly privatised. They were management contracts. There is a difference. The operators had no influence on their ticket prices. |
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yeti08
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Location: Anyang - Pyeongchon
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Can we all agree that less old people starring angrily is a good thing. Make'em pay, especially at rush hour(s). |
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Highwayman
Joined: 22 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| yeti08 wrote: |
| Can we all agree that less old people starring angrily is a good thing. |
I agree. I had no idea they were riding for fun. This forum is an education sometimes. |
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