Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Nowhere Man]

Preface
To start, I�d like to give you plus points for framing your question diplomatically (as in I didn�t know your position).
You then rack up minus points for your quick responses (as in, less than a day later, you be flyin� ur flag). You should�ve let this stuff stew a bit longer, then surprised us.
Your penalty for this is to answer this question: did you vote Bush in 2004?
If so, I�m not sure which part of voting Obama you can really call a mistake.

2008
To go back to 2008, I did, and still do, have a feeling that a very dark period in our country had passed. It�s obvious now (and was then absent of promises to �just wait� for WMD evidence and that �freeing Iraq oil would pay for the war�) that George Jr. was running the country in response to his father being called out as a �wimp�. He was begging for a war, knew that it wouldn�t hurt his constituent support, and got it. To say Obama is just the same ignores these factors.

I, for one, remember when some called it treachery/un-American to not support Iraq.

I remember when opposing the war wasn�t the �in-thing� to do.

I remember when protesters were run over by police motorcycles and war veterans were shot with rubber bullets for opposing the war.

I remember when high-schoolers were interrogated by federal officers for saying Bush should be shot.

I remember when, in post-9/11 rigamortis, the media was beholden to Bush�s every word.

Moreover, I remember when most of the world was behind us in condemning 9/11.

Furthermore, I remember thinking, as a partisan, that Bush would be a bumbling Republican who didn�t support my agenda but would have to stand election another four years later. IOW, I wasn�t sensitive to how much the 2000 election would impact our direction as a nation.

I did not anticipate a Department of Homeland Security nor the increased attack on civil liberties.

BUT

To say that Obama is just a continuation of this is ignoring the sheer amount of crap churned out in eight years of Bush.

Again, soup, rather than attack Obama, I�d be interested in knowing how much of the above you support.

NOW
This brings us to the �informed voter� argument.
If your only choice is two people, how informed do you really have to be?

There�s a clear answer: not much

Kudos to you if you�re based in Iowa or New Hampshire, but if the numbskulls in those two states don�t like your candidate, then you get to vote for the people those two states have selected. �Oh no no�, you might say, but if you�re after the Super Tuesday states, you�re pretty much down to four people AND you get to influence this if you�re a card-carrying party member.

SO, if you�re an �informed� Oregon voter, you get to vote for? Oh wait�in the event of a century�the 2008 vote went all the way! That�s awesome�for �informed� people who enjoy being chopped liver in a decision process.

This leads us to:

Voting Behavior

The State of the Union is as such: conservatives win the vote and go whole hog. Liberals win the vote and find out that half their base is �blue dog� (half GOP).

And 2000-2008 back up this in spades. Bush gets 9/11. His war goes unchallenged. In 2004, a pro-war candidate with loosey-goosey positions got chosen (by Iowa and New Hampshire) to oppose the �war president�.

Dean should have been the candidate, win or lose. Why? As a matter of substance. We could have had a referendum on the war instead of �yes� and �kind of�.

Which leads me to voting Obama

With war and economy on the forefront, I�m baffled as to why he focused on healthcare.

This is my biggest disappointment.

On the other hand, the true disappointment was the fact that his majority congress didn�t support him. Again, we have �yes� versus �kind of�. When the GOP is in power, we simply have �yes�.

2012
I�m not voting Obama in 2012.
BUT, it�s not exactly because of him.
The first reason is strategic: 2012-2016 will be a mass of flailure re: the economy. Pinning this economy to Obama is unfair. You could to Bush, but Uncle Ronnie is the godfather of indiscriminant deficit spending. The tools that attribute his arms race to the end of the cold war are best left with this debacle. You bankrupted Russia, no? Now who�s bankrupt?

Social security has to die. Hot potato, pass it round�

The second reason is that I�m done with the �liberal vote� being taken for granted and the effort being put into attracting conservatives. We had the White House and Congress, but�um...no, we didn�t. Why are there �Blue Dogs� and no �Red Dogs�? There�s a lot being taken for granted that needs to end.

On the responsibility for voting
In our version of democracy (republicanism, not to be confused with the party), you get a choice of two (as narrowed down for you by select states); you also get to vote as state and not individually (meaning your vote is only counted if your state agrees with you), and, the walloper, your house of representatives doesn�t get to expand based on population, meaning your representative is representing roughly 750,000 people and not 36,000 (as envisioned in 1776).

This brings us to the crux of the matter: how effectively do US national elections represent and reflect the principles which an �informed voter� should be able to expect?

The answer is: not much

You�re choosing from two, and, as well evidenced, the difference dwindles.

But is it your DUTY to vote?

No. You�re, in essence, voting for none of the above.
To ponder it, not voting in the �68 Nixon election trumps having voted for him, as well-informed as you might smugly feel.

In fact, if �pull-your-nose-and-vote� voting ended, we might actually have better options (if Iowa and NH residents like them).

Patriotic Duty
Finally, we must ask whether it is contemptible to not actually vote. In this area, we consult the great William Blake:

Like a bird to a nest,
So is contempt to the contemptible

It is entirely possible to be fully informed yet not vote.

[visitorq]

[Nowhere Man]

[soupsandwich]

Fudge....I just was about to finish my response to your post and I lost my internet connection.................hate it when that happens.


OK......here we go.

[Nowhere Man]

[soupsandwich]