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RangerMcGreggor
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Location: Somewhere in Korea
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 Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| soupsandwich wrote: |
As I said, a case by case basis............but one also has to consider what would happen to our women if they were captured. |
Sexual violence happens against men in war all the time |
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soupsandwich
Joined: 20 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, sexual violence does happen to men.
But do you honestly use that as a justification to send women into combat?
If women were really physically equal, than why are the standards lower for them?
soupsandwich |
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soupsandwich
Joined: 20 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Many nationals and peoples throughout history have had women soldiers, from Israel of today to Vietnam of nearly two centuries ago (The Trung sisters led the resistance that defeated the vastly superior number Chinese again and again through a campaign they led of sabatoged camps and assassinated senior officers).
Get over yourself. |
I almost forgot.....are you ready?
Other Nations' Experience
Israel
The only reliable record of women in combat is provided by Israel, a nation whose policy is widely misunderstood. The popular conception is that Israeli women fight alongside men as equals. The truth is that although Israel drafts both women and men for military service, Israel has excluded women from combat units since 1950.
To be sure, female soldiers fought alongside male colleagues in Israel's War of Liberation, which ended in 1948. Because of the problems that this created, Israeli women never again were sent into battle. Explains military historian Edward N. Luttwak of the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, who has written a book about the Israeli military: "Men moved to protect the women members of the unit instead of carrying out the mission of the unit." (Telephone interview, June 10, 1991.) Luttwak adds that women are integrated into the Israeli military at many levels, and conduct most of the training. Women also serve in the Mossad, Israel's elite counter-terrorist force. But women are excluded, Luttwak notes, from infantry and other combat positions based on "the pragmatic experience of 40 years." (Ibid.)
The Israelis also bar women from combat for cultural reasons. After the War of Liberation, Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion said that placing women in combat violated the Jewish concept of womanhood and women's status as mothers. (Interview with senior Israeli military official, June 12, 1991, Washington, D.C.) At a Washington briefing this month, a senior Israeli military official said that even tentative experiments with women serving aboard missile-defense boats had failed miserably. Furthermore, he said, because of its cultural heritage, Israel "is not ready to pay the price of a woman being held hostage, a woman returning crippled." (Ibid.)
In hearings before the Military Personnel Subcommittee of the House Committee on Armed Services in November 1979, Brigadier General Andrew J. Gatsis, USA (retired), testified that Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Dayan told him that during Israel's War of Liberation, "we had a constant fear of what the Arabs would do to our women if they captured them." The men, Dayan told Gatsis, "could not stand the psychological stress" of watching women being killed and captured. Gatsis also said that Dayan "felt that [having women in combat units] knocked down their combat effectiveness." ("Women in the Military," hearings before the Military Personnel Subcommittee of the Committee on Armed Services, House of Representatives, November 13-16, 1979 and February 11, 1980, pp. 281-282.)
So...you were saying?
OH..how about Canada (unless things have changed, of course)?
Canada
In Canada, combat training was opened to women in 1987 as part of CREW Trials (Combat Related Employment of Women). The Canadian Defense Ministry had planned to form an infantry unit with 40 men and 40 women and compare them with a unit of 80 men. The experiment was never completed because not enough females volunteered, according to Commander Judith Harper of the Canadian Defense Ministry in Ottawa. (Telephone interview with Heritage Foundation researcher on June 7, 1991.) From 1987 to February 21, 1991, some 342 women were enrolled in Canadian army combat units, and 79 graduated. More than half the graduates were radio operators. Of 102 women who enlisted in infantry training, only one graduated. That woman served her three-year mandatory term and recently left the army. (Ibid.)
Canada's five-year training program for fighter pilots has produced two female pilots, Harper said. No figures are available for training costs, although U.S. Air Force spokesmen report that it costs more than $2 million to train a military pilot to fly an F-111D, and from $1.4 million to $2 million for seven other aircraft. ("Representative Officer Aircrew Training Costs," U.S. Air Force document AFR 173-13 Table A34-1, figures in 1989 dollars. Also, telephone interview with United States Air Force Air Training Command Public Affairs Office, Randolph Air Force Base, Randolph, Texas, June 10, 1991.) If women pilots were to drop out of the program because of pregnancies, it would prove very costly to taxpayers.
The other nations without combat exclusion laws or policies -- Denmark, Luxembourg, Norway and Portugal -- have not tested women in battle and have little probability of doing so. |
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soupsandwich
Joined: 20 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| If they can perform ALL the combat duties that their male counterpart does, at the same level of proficiency, then I don't see why not |
Fair enough...so by that, women should register with the selective service so that may be drafted? Do you think that would not create shite storm?
soupsandwich |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| soupsandwich wrote: |
| Fair enough...so by that, women should register with the selective service so that may be drafted? Do you think that would not create shite storm? |
The draft should be eliminated. |
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soupsandwich
Joined: 20 May 2011
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| soupsandwich wrote: |
| American women are generally not as hardened. And we are talking about the American military, mind you. |
American women are tougher than American men, and I say that as an American man. |
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soupsandwich
Joined: 20 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| American women are tougher than American men, and I say that as an American man. |
Ahhh.......on a case by case basis, perhaps. But in general? No..based on what I've seen, I've got to disagree. |
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