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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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 Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Korea HAS to export their music, read any interview and they talk about how they cant make moey in their own country.
I lived in Japan for a while and I dont remember Japanese artists trying to make it overseas, nor people expressing the desire too. Most Japanese artists can make alot of money at home. Some rock bands tour the west but they just dont need to. There are even a few J-rockers who wont use English expressions because they want to keep their music more "Japanese"
Thats a big point. OF COURSE, a rich country with alot of talented music like Japan could promote their music abroad, even without the internet (J rock's rise was the 90s right?). K-pop has to go abroard. |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| RangerMcGreggor wrote: |
| It might come as a niche market in areas with high Asian populations (Seattle for example) but that is about it. J-Rock/J-Pop never got mainstream despite numerous attempts and the rise of anime. |
That's just because it doesn't sound good. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Last week�s successful Paris performance of Korean pop groups that included Girls� Generation and Super Junior has the domestic media excited about a possible ``Western invasion,�� but the journalistic response in Europe was mixed, voicing admiration and discomfort.
Le Monde, the influential French daily, observed that the K-pop stars were groomed as export items with support from a Korean government that is desperate to promote a young and dynamic image of the country. The newspaper also noted that Korean management companies haven�t been shy about having their young stars undergo plastic surgery.
also-
Le Monde Criticizes "K-Pop Exports Children as Products"; "Korean government gives massive support to sell national image"
Performances by K-pop 'idols' in Paris on June 10 and 11 sent European fans wild. Koreans were left ecstatic at the way the "Korean Wave had swept through all of Europe."
But France's leading daily newspaper, Le Monde, sees things a little differently. "It seems the boys and girls trained according to the plans of production companies that have made music into an export product have reached us thanks to massive support from the Korean government, which is attempting to market a positive, dynamic national image." (Le Monde, June 11)
Le Monde's view is heavy with the nuance that young boys and girls have been commercialized, and that the government is exporting their commercialized images in the name of the 'Korean Wave.'
The French daily Le Monde also mentioned practices that take place in the Korean entertainment industry, saying, "the extreme of plastic surgery is also resorted to during idols' training periods."
http://english.khan.co.kr/khan_art_view.html?artid=201106141430457&code=710100 |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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well think about it. it was two shows, two days, about 7000 each. fans came from all over Europe. 7000 at a show is big, but more like a medium rock act. Its doesnt seem like an invasion, it seems like two well promoted shows. which is fine. of course, everything is a takeover here, and when the foreign media doesnt support, they can take a anti-whitey backlash here.
luckily, i think the young people dont buy the media frenzy as much as the older people do. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| happiness wrote: |
| luckily, i think the young people dont buy the media frenzy as much as the older people do. |
I remember talking to a university student about 5 years ago. She said it was in university that she learned that you shouldn't believe everything you see in media and K-professors trying to instill this into their minds. She said it was a revelation to her, I was frankly shocked she didn't realize this much much earlier. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| happiness wrote: |
| luckily, i think the young people dont buy the media frenzy as much as the older people do. |
I remember talking to a university student about 5 years ago. She said it was in university that she learned that you shouldn't believe everything you see in media and K-professors trying to instill this into their minds. She said it was a revelation to her, I was frankly shocked she didn't realize this much much earlier. |
Me: Why do you think fan death is real?
(Intelligent) Coworker: Because I saw it on the news. |
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Tundra_Creature
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| happiness wrote: |
| I lived in Japan for a while and I dont remember Japanese artists trying to make it overseas, nor people expressing the desire to. |
Actually there were numerous attempts by Hikaru Utada to try it out in the States. It just didn't pan out. I think the difference is that the media doesn't cover it the way that Korea does, because they don't need to. Everyone already knows Japan for their anime and their samurai and whatnot.
As you said, there are a number of indie bands who come over to perform the smaller crowds, but there are Korean ones as well. They're usually playing the same audience.
I personally have a fondness for both Japanese and Korean pop (I'm one those weird 20 year olds that Dorkothy mentioned in her post). Though I prefer Kpop videos over the Jpop.
I don't think either will make it 'big' in NA television/radio wise, but I certainly think they're doing well in terms of concerts. I had a friend go down a few weeks ago to a JYP one in New York and apparently it was huge.
There's certainly a market for it in the West, just not via mainstream radio/T.V. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| Major entertainment is tied up with a lot of backroom players, including your local mafia (this is why if your idol group doesn't succeed in a big way you may be sent to work in a Kangnam room salon to pay off the terms of your slave labor contract). For J-pop, K-pop, or whatever to become a true staple stateside or in Europe, it'd have to win those people over. Because they're (J-pop/K-pop) so cutesy or wannabe "down", it is highly unlikely, at least for the time being. That won't stop local syndicates from stringing the K-pops of the world along for the considerable bribes, women, etc that are used to grease deals which allow for a certain level of momentary success, with the last laugh always had at the expense of the pretenders/would-be contenders, i.e. Wonder Girls in America (despite being feted on all the major talk shows etc, a true non-factor dead-in-the water losing proposition with no momentum and no hope). Well, at least it attracts attention, which can be useful in encouraging foreign investment deals, which may be sealed in some of those Kangnam room salons with a Girls Generation look alike. Good for the big man, tough cookies for the little starlet, who may opt for suicide at some point, when she realizes she was nothing but a pawn in the game. Little does she or the hordes of drone fans realize, they never really had a chance from day 1. But it's sexier to dance the dance night away to corporate-manufactured processed cheese than raise some awareness about political/geo-political/social realities. |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| Tundra_Creature wrote: |
| happiness wrote: |
| I lived in Japan for a while and I dont remember Japanese artists trying to make it overseas, nor people expressing the desire to. |
Actually there were numerous attempts by Hikaru Utada to try it out in the States. It just didn't pan out. |
Ah, Hikki did the Cubic U record when she was 13 in NY because she was BORN THERE! I still dont think she has Japanese citizenship (shes divorced from her producer ex hasband) Her mom (forgot her name) was a famous Enka singer and dad a producer. The Exodus record is fantastic and had truly awesome lyircs, and Timberland did the Easy Breezy single, but it was quite indie and I bet it was hard to market her. She was singing about being between two worlds, asian and western, and Im guessing it just didnt make sense to most people. I loved the record myself, not the second one though, I havent taken the time yet.
an Asian band play one show in NY? of course itll be big. try a full tour. or getting major exposure, THATS the hurdle. One show in a big city full of Asians, thats easy. |
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Tundra_Creature
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| happiness wrote: |
| Tundra_Creature wrote: |
| happiness wrote: |
| I lived in Japan for a while and I dont remember Japanese artists trying to make it overseas, nor people expressing the desire to. |
Actually there were numerous attempts by Hikaru Utada to try it out in the States. It just didn't pan out. |
Ah, Hikki did the Cubic U record when she was 13 in NY because she was BORN THERE! I still dont think she has Japanese citizenship (shes divorced from her producer ex hasband) Her mom (forgot her name) was a famous Enka singer and dad a producer. The Exodus record is fantastic and had truly awesome lyircs, and Timberland did the Easy Breezy single, but it was quite indie and I bet it was hard to market her. She was singing about being between two worlds, asian and western, and Im guessing it just didnt make sense to most people. I loved the record myself, not the second one though, I havent taken the time yet.
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Of course I know she was born there and I'm aware of her parents and history (I am quite a fan of hers as well). But the bottom line is that her success came from Japan and other Asian countries, not North America. That's what I mean about trying to make it 'overseas'.
What I'm talking about are the two albums after Cubic U; Exodus and Come Back to me. I loved Exodus too (I enjoyed the lyrics as well, though they still did sound a bit peculiar), but that doesn't change the fact that you didn't see it on the big charts.
I listened to Come Back to Me, and it was not as good as Exodus. Didn't really get into it much. It sounded a bit weird. Then again, I'm not a music buff. I listen to what sounds good to my ear, whether it's meaningful or not. 
I would like to mention that the group in New York was a very diverse crowd. Hell, even the group thought it was going to be mainly Asians as well, but apparently those from all over game. My friend who went was originally from Senegal and she went with a friend from France. But even if it wasn't, that shouldn't matter, should it?
That's like saying a popular country singer doesn't count; one big show of old white folk, that's easy. They should try getting exposure on MTV or amongst the black community. THAT's the hurdle. Or they shoudl try touring Europe.
Anyway, what I'm saying is that Japan and Korea are in the same boat when it comes to exposure in North America. Neither of them had large commercial success, however, that doesn't mean that they don't have an audience to please over there.  |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| But it's sexier to dance the dance night away to corporate-manufactured processed cheese than raise some awareness about political/geo-political/social realities. |
Yeah it is. Sorry, I'm not fighting the revolution 24-7.
For goodness sakes, what is it with some people and the idea that all music has to be serious, super innovative, and about "the issues".
You know some people still listen to music because they like the singer's voice and the beat makes them move their body.
I see no problem with someone putting together something where one person sings and another person writes the music. No one whines when its a jazz vocalist or a crooner. Why the big huff over KPop doing that?
I think one reason Koreans like "generic music" and always make sure to listen to it is because of the noraebang culture here. Spending a fair amount of time singing together with other people means that in order to have a good time you need songs that are A)Fairly easy to sing and B)Appeal to a wide variety of people.
That all being said. KPop has no chance outside of Asia. Everyone's music plate is too full these days so its awfully hard to expand outside of natural markets. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| A jazz vocalist isn't forced to prostitute her body by management, nor is she required to change the structure of her face when she is still a teen. Also, a jazz composer writing for a vocalist would not be very respected if he/she were to copy and mimic previous standards, as would the vocalist herself were she to live in a training dorm for years on end, doing as told and basically becoming a programmed drone. Because, dont'cha know it, your favorite dancing chimp idol really has considered her life outside of the box, and has developed herslef in a way which inspires her fans to discover life for themselves rather than blindly follow trends and take orders from above. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
| A jazz vocalist isn't forced to prostitute her body by management, nor is she required to change the structure of her face when she is still a teen. Also, a jazz composer writing for a vocalist would not be very respected if he/she were to copy and mimic previous standards, as would the vocalist herself were she to live in a training dorm for years on end, doing as told and basically becoming a programmed drone. Because, dont'cha know it, your favorite dancing chimp idol really has considered her life outside of the box, and has developed herslef in a way which inspires her fans to discover life for themselves rather than blindly follow trends and take orders from above. |
In other words, why does everyone look at them and not at me? Everyone should look at me and not that stupid pop star.
You can bash them all you want, but at the end of the day they are someone who chased their dream and are living it. Can you say the same about yourself?
Believe it or not, some of the KPop stars are recruited in America. They
weren't brewed up in some SM Entertainment lab.
Have you actually listened to lyrics by some of those Kpop groups? Did you know HOT's (THE biggest Kpop group of the 90s) big songs were about challenging the elder's, stopping bullying, and protesting the IMF? Did you know that there were songs dealing with the lack of individuality that is encouraged? Domestic Violence? Suicide?
No, you just spout off unresearched nonsense. If you actually listened and looked at what some of the groups are saying, then you might ahve a clue.
But not every song has to be about issues. It's okay to write a song about love and one that has a nice beat.
The bottom line is that some of them are good singers. The ballads can be nice. The dance tunes aren't anything special, but anyone who isn't an angry bitter grumpy gus can enjoy the occasional one. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| In other words, why does everyone look at them and not at me? Everyone should look at me and not that stupid pop star. |
You of all people saying this? Please.
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You can bash them all you want, but at the end of the day they are someone who chased their dream and are living it. Can you say the same about yourself?
Believe it or not, some of the KPop stars are recruited in America. They
weren't brewed up in some SM Entertainment lab. |
If you lived in Seoul rather than some country enclave, and was able to observe how power is exercised in the entertainmnet industry, you'd see how incredibly exploitative the whole business is. Most of the idols are in fact cultivated in a manner resembling a scientific lab, replete with plastic surgery. That American dude who was in a wildly successful group (2pm) jumped ship at the height of the group's fame and went back to the states- Gee, I wonder why? Wasn't he 'living his dream'? Or did he realize it was actually a farce? Well, at least he didn't kill himself. Other homegrown actors and singers have, one in particular (Jang Ja-yeon) tried to alert everyone to the sordidness of the Korean entertainment management machine through her passing. At the end of the day I'm not interested in supporting an industry which uses the lure of 'stardom' to boost the ego of 1% of the successful applicants while the remaining 99% who didn't make it big enough to pay off what they owe in their contracts are relegated to doing things like providing 'companionship' for bigwigs out on the town.
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Have you actually listened to lyrics by some of those Kpop groups? Did you know HOT's (THE biggest Kpop group of the 90s) big songs were about challenging the elder's, stopping bullying, and protesting the IMF? Did you know that there were songs dealing with the lack of individuality that is encouraged? Domestic Violence? Suicide?
No, you just spout off unresearched nonsense. If you actually listened and looked at what some of the groups are saying, then you might ahve a clue. |
So go ahead live it up in your country town and blast HOT all you want on your stereo, you've really done your research and truly understand what it's all about, as HOT and their kin have really made a difference. And speaking of HOT, one of it members, Lee Jae hoon, was accused of raping an aspiring K-pop startlet ('the 'ol 'get with me and I'll introduce you to so-and-so' gone wrong), and escaped by ponying up for an out-of-court settlement. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Most of the idols are in fact cultivated in a manner resembling a scientific lab, replete with plastic surgery. |
Yeah, some are. Others like the hip-hop acts are a bit more independent.
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| That American dude who was in a wildly successful group (2pm) jumped ship at the height of the group's fame and went back to the states- Gee, I wonder why? Wasn't he 'living his dream'? |
Actually he was pressured to quit because of some of the comments he made.
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| Other homegrown actors and singers have, one in particular (Jang Ja-yeon) tried to alert everyone to the sordidness of the Korean entertainment management machine through her passing. |
Singers and actors have psychological problems and end up committing suicide or ending up on drugs or are found to have been suffering from sexual abuse?
Never heard that before...Some of those things seem to come with the territory. Something about the whole desperate for attention thing that drives a lot of performers.
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| Wasn't he 'living his dream'? |
Not all dreams are good ones, or turn out to be what we expect. Nonetheless, unlike you, plenty of those pop stars ARE living out their dream and succeeded at it.
So unless you are doing what you've always wanted to do as a child and risen to the top, don't be so judgmental. Hats off to anyone who works hard and rises to the top.
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| At the end of the day I'm not interested in supporting an industry which uses the lure of 'stardom' to boost the ego of 1% of the successful applicants while the remaining 99% who didn't make it big enough to pay off what they owe in their contracts are relegated to doing things like providing 'companionship' for bigwigs out on the town. |
Do you follow professional sports?
Student Loans?
It's the music industry man. Of course its dirty.
But I don't care about that.
What is it with people taking music SO seriously. Music doesn't always have to stand for something.
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| So go ahead live it up in your country town and blast HOT all you want on your stereo, you've really done your research and truly understand what it's all about, as HOT and their kin have really made a difference, and really believed in what they were singing. And speaking of HOT, one of it members, Lee Jae hoon, was accused of raping an aspiring K-pop startlet ('the 'ol 'get with me and I'll introduce you to so-and-so' gone wrong), and escaped by ponying up for an out-of-court settlement. |
Why are you so angry?
Seriously, angry at people for liking certain kinds of music is one of the most pointless things in the universe.
Yeah, people are hypocrites and there's corruption and sleaze. What else is new?
KPop ain't the greatest, but I enjoy some songs.
So I'll enjoy my KPop, and I hope you enjoy having to put up with it every time you walk into a store or bar. Must be fun for you. |
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