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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| Chaucer wrote: |
| minos wrote: |
Non-esl work is viewed as much higher. Top actually. I do some side non-esl work and respect level is pretty high if they believe you.
Then University which is highly regarded(at least as fa as ESl work goes)
Then international schools and foreign language high schools(koreans know some of them).
Then Public school.
Then Hagwon.
Student is somewhere in the middle. I don't think they hold a opinion of students other then "Have fun in our country!Your Korean is better than an other foreigner I ever met, bye bye!" |
A good FLHS, say Minsako or Daewon, would be higher than any university, unless one were an actual professor, doing research and teaching six hours a week... |
Not in the eyes of a Korean. Someone working at Yonsei or SNU would trump that anyday of the week and twice on sunday. Korean people do not rank based on objective factors, they rank based on overall public reputation.
Those highschools WILL come in ahead of many private smaller universities outside of Seoul...but not ahead of big name Unis. Period.
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I used to work at Daewon. The Koreans I met were very impressed by the fact that I worked there. But I don't doubt that they would have been more impressed if I worked at one of the SKY schools or another similarly prestigious institution. And why wouldn't they be more impressed? Getting a job at Daewon isn't easy, but it's not as difficult as becoming a professor, or even an instructor, at a renowned university in Seoul.
In any case, I no longer work at Daewon (though I could go back if I wanted). Instead, I teach at a test-prep hagwon in Gangnam. The work conditions and facilities aren't as nice as Daewon's, but the students are mostly a pleasure to teach. Plus, I make about twice as much as I did at Daewon. And yes, some Koreans may think that I traded down in terms of jobs (in some ways, they are right), but to be honest, I don't really care. I enjoy my work and make good money, so why should their opinions bother me? |
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Chaucer
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:47 am Post subject: The thing is... |
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The thing is, I've heard it's VERY hard to get a job at Daewon and Minsako. And that they pay well. I think Koreans know those things--just as they know that their SKY unis, while leaving graduates with a good network, do not educate them very well.
And I know for a fact that an MA and some "lesser" university teaching experience will easily land one a job at a SKY university language center. Not in the English department perhaps, not as a full professor, but teaching English at the uni. Are we talking about actual PhD-holding, publishing-to-avoid-perishing professors here? I thought not, given the initial NET thing. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| jinks wrote: |
| koreatimes wrote: |
That's a totem pole? 3 levels? Really?
I look at it more like a plane seat, you want window, aisle, or center seat? Doesn't matter, we land or crash together. |
I like this
We are all on E2 visas; there is no totem pole. |
Not really. The majority may be on E2s but lots of foreign teachers are on E1s and F-visas. |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| jinks wrote: |
| koreatimes wrote: |
That's a totem pole? 3 levels? Really?
I look at it more like a plane seat, you want window, aisle, or center seat? Doesn't matter, we land or crash together. |
I like this
We are all on E2 visas; there is no totem pole. |
Not really. The majority may be on E2s but lots of foreign teachers are on E1s and F-visas. |
That's true, but I thought the OP's question was about Korean people's perceptions about foreign English teachers. Perceptions, as we know, can be greater than the reality. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
That's a totem pole? 3 levels? Really?
I look at it more like a plane seat, you want window, aisle, or center seat? Doesn't matter, we land or crash together. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Those English villages have to rank below even the lowest hakwon. Let's consider them the anchor to the totem, or the part that is half stuck in the dirt.
For the ESL industry, this is the way I've seen it go over the past several years. There are some add-ins such as for those with F-series visas who can run their own study room, jump around to company jobs legally, or simply tutor away their days.
4-year universities (SKY or up there) in Seoul or another major city
4-year smaller universities (you can REALLY get hassled, although some are pretty decent to their employees) in Seoul or other major cities
4-Year universities in the boonies that nobody has every heard of
Some larger university 'Unikwons'
Company training centers...usually in the boonies...
2-year universities in Seoul or another major city
2-year universities out in the boonies....
Public school in Seoul or another major city
Public school out in the boonies...
Kiddie hakwon in Seoul, etc...
Kiddie hakwon out in the boonies....
Adult hakwon in Seoul, etc....
Adult hakwon out in the boonies....
English Village...anywhere! |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
Those English villages have to rank below even the lowest hakwon. Let's consider them the anchor to the totem, or the part that is half stuck in the dirt.
For the ESL industry, this is the way I've seen it go over the past several years. There are some add-ins such as for those with F-series visas who can run their own study room, jump around to company jobs legally, or simply tutor away their days.
4-year universities (SKY or up there) in Seoul or another major city
4-year smaller universities (you can REALLY get hassled, although some are pretty decent to their employees) in Seoul or other major cities
4-Year universities in the boonies that nobody has every heard of
Some larger university 'Unikwons'
Company training centers...usually in the boonies...
2-year universities in Seoul or another major city
2-year universities out in the boonies....
Public school in Seoul or another major city
Public school out in the boonies...
Kiddie hakwon in Seoul, etc...
Kiddie hakwon out in the boonies....
Adult hakwon in Seoul, etc....
Adult hakwon out in the boonies....
English Village...anywhere! |
What's with people always ranking cities higher than boonies? They are ranked at the same level and you're doing the same job. In matter in fact you might even get paid more working a PS in the boonies. So you're 13 levels can almost be cut in half. It's basically just
4-year university
2- year university
Public School
Hagwon/English village
Koreans will basically wonder how stable your job is, and they know hagwons aren't stable. So universities and public schools can even be put on the same level. Unless you are an actual PhD with a tenured job at any university, then people will be really impressed.
If you're a PS teacher, you're a PS teacher and it doesn't matter if you teach an elementary, or high school, or in Gangnam, or some small village on some remote island. Koreans will just see you as an FT. They won't think you're less of an FT if you work some rural school. You're just an FT in their minds. They may find it impressive if you teach at a university, so I might give that a slightly high ranking. But it really doesn't matter.
Saying that, it's seems FT are the ones more concerned with supposed rank, or prestige, in a job when most people you meet don't really give a rat's ass. |
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Chet Wautlands
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:45 am Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure that the lowest position on a totem pole is generally considered to be the "best" position. I'm not speaking metaphorically here, but I think you guys might be.
As far as how Koreans value your job, I submit this meager suggestion: the place that provides the most benefits to the Korean employees is the best job.
A Korean person working at an English hagwon is obviously below a public school teacher. Likewise, a university professor is higher than a public school teacher.
There are differences of opinion, but it works as a standard rule.
If you really want Korean people (or anyone) to be impressed by your job, I'd suggest you should retrace your steps and try an different path. You've gone the wrong way. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| No reason to retrace your steps backward, just forge a path forward. |
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Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
| No reason to retrace your steps backward, just forge a path forward. |
no kidding.
lowest of low is the wonderland folks.  |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
What's with people always ranking cities higher than boonies? They are ranked at the same level and you're doing the same job. |
Not true.
And...
Where you work is very important to Koreans. Hagwon and PS jobs...pretty much a dead heat there. Corporate/university positions however, definitely have some 'wow' factor.
Koreans place much value in where one works, just as where they went to school, where they live, etc. Superficial for sure, but very real as well. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
What's with people always ranking cities higher than boonies? They are ranked at the same level and you're doing the same job. |
Not true.
And...
Where you work is very important to Koreans. Hagwon and PS jobs...pretty much a dead heat there. Corporate/university positions however, definitely have some 'wow' factor.
Koreans place much value in where one works, just as where they went to school, where they live, etc. Superficial for sure, but very real as well. |
I beg to differ, at least for Koreans. When two Korean PS teachers meet each other, they don't think any less of them if they work outside of Seoul. Heck, half the teachers in Seoul are probably from the boonies anyways. Granted, they may think less of someone working for some 2-year college in the boonies vs some major university, but PS schools are pretty much standard across the board, for Korean teachers. As for FT's, well FT's are always 'special'. |
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Otus
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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I left a job I had for four years at one of the higher ranking unis in Seoul and then worked at a 2 year college in the boonies for four years:
2 year college in the boonies-higher salary ... (really!) Over 4 months paid vacation - Less teaching hours, some friendly Korean profs. None of the ridiculous pretentiousness among the foreign staff that exists at some of the unis in Seoul...
(No - didn't do any homework - it was just the luck of the draw).
My advice - stop worrying too much about what K's or anyone else for that matter think about your workplace - sometimes it is highly misleading. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I may have taken a "step down" when it comes to Korean opinion, having switched from PS to hagwan, but I'm much happier, have better hours, a lovely boss, and a bit more money. Let them think what they want. I have plenty of friends at PS that would love my job. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
What's with people always ranking cities higher than boonies? They are ranked at the same level and you're doing the same job. |
Not true.
And...
Where you work is very important to Koreans. Hagwon and PS jobs...pretty much a dead heat there. Corporate/university positions however, definitely have some 'wow' factor.
Koreans place much value in where one works, just as where they went to school, where they live, etc. Superficial for sure, but very real as well. |
I beg to differ, at least for Koreans. When two Korean PS teachers meet each other, they don't think any less of them if they work outside of Seoul. Heck, half the teachers in Seoul are probably from the boonies anyways. Granted, they may think less of someone working for some 2-year college in the boonies vs some major university, but PS schools are pretty much standard across the board, for Korean teachers. As for FT's, well FT's are always 'special'. |
+1
The Korean teachers are transferred all the time. And they continue to stay in touch with them regardless of where they�re sent.
Anyway, I�m surprised this thread is still going. Who do you think is impressed with your job status here? Koreatimes already hit the nail on the head with window seat, middle, and aisle�on the same plane called waygookin. |
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