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rainism

Joined: 13 Apr 2011

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:20 am Post subject:

note to self: never work for EPIK unless given assurances that those contract provisions will be ignored, provided they're happy with your performance. so you're out in country bumpkindom and working under that contract? those school loans must be very onerous indeed!

rainism

Joined: 13 Apr 2011

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:25 am Post subject:

runthegauntlet wrote:

schwa wrote:

You'd have the more generous ones be forced to comply?

Yes, I would.

It's contractual and whether you guys like it or not, having some schools/districts following the contract while others don't is the real bullsh*t.

If they want to say upfront that this district or that one doesn't require deskwarming and they put that in the contract, then game on and people who want can apply for those districts.

The crapshoot that is now the current standard is the problem. That some NETs are deskwarming 40 hours a week while others are off doing whatever they want when we're all supposed to have the same (general) contract is ridiculous.

no this isn''t a union (though most teachers are in one like it or not , and one of the things I dislike about the profession, I don''t WANT to be in a union)

better workers get better perks. and more money. Better players/athletes get more perks, and more money. Since we can't get more money, it's only fair we get more perks.

runthegauntlet

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:26 am Post subject:

rainism wrote:

so you're out in country bumpkindom and working under that contract?
those school loans must be very onerous indeed!

I've had enough fun pointing out how wrong you've already been in this thread so I don't really feel the need to continue doing so at this point.

You enjoy your job and I'll do the same, mkay?

Yeah.

runthegauntlet

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:30 am Post subject:

rainism wrote:

runthegauntlet wrote:

schwa wrote:

You'd have the more generous ones be forced to comply?

You've completely missed my point in your self-aggrandizing little spill, there.

I have no problem with additional 'perks'. Actually, having it stipulated that desk-warming be abolished provided you somehow prove you're a ' better worker' would be a great idea.

I'm merely stating that the lack of transparency is the real issue here. As I said, the current 'crapshoot' situation we have in which schools do or do not follow the written contract is the problem.

Try to keep up, bud. Having to break everything down for you is not making your assertion that you're a 'better teacher' worthy of 'perks' very believable.

rainism

Joined: 13 Apr 2011

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:35 am Post subject:

I have some very terrifying news for you. your entire LIFE is in varying degrees, a "crapshoot". you can be the best teacher in the world and land in a certain school with a certain principal and you're "screwed". my point is that teaching PS in Korea is actually much less of a crapshoot than most things in life outside of it. Your marriage will be a bigger "crapshoot". Enjoy your mandated standardized comfort zone

runthegauntlet

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:39 am Post subject:

rainism wrote:

I have some very terrifying news for you.

your entire LIFE is in varying degrees, a "crapshoot".

you can be the best teacher in the world and land in a certain school with a certain principal and you're "screwed".

my point is that teaching PS in Korea is actually much less of a crapshoot than most things in life outside of it.

Your marriage will be a bigger "crapshoot".

Enjoy your mandated standardized comfort zone Very Happy

Could you possibly throw out any more irrelevant tangents in one post?

What are you going on about?

Have you bothered to read a single thing I've said or are you just throwing that drivel out there because you have read it but are unable to actually address it?

Firearcher

Joined: 22 Dec 2007

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:33 am Post subject: Agreed

Squire wrote:

Apparently I'm in from 9-5 all 2 weeks of summer camp, plus the week before where I teach classes at my middle school. I only get my poxy 7 days to myself. 헐!!!

Honestly though, if this turns out to be true it's such bullsh*t. When I eventually leave this job (which I otherwise like) I'll say it's because other education boards don't require NETs to deskwarm. I don't care if it's true, it'll make a statement

I am in the same position. I love the kids at my school and the staff is generally good to work with. I have few to no complaints. But the policies at my public school are utter crap and the most crazy in all my years here. I had intended to stay but the past month have changed my mind. Contract ends - I'm outta there. The Koreans will tell you that you can talk with them if you have issues but then when you do there is ZERO empathy, sympathy and understanding. One of my co-teachers saw the expression on my face when i learned I had to desk warm all summer from 8:30-4:30 while the school is virtually empty........and she said "How is the economy in your country". Which I took as, if you don't like it here you foreigner - go home.

I like it here. I don't like my school due to non nonsensical and unnecessary policies.

Firearcher

Joined: 22 Dec 2007

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:40 am Post subject:

rainism wrote:

Firearcher wrote:

May I ask what school board you work for? EPIK, GEPIK or SMOE?

I'm one of the very unlucky ones. Must be at school 8 hours a day during camp and have 8 business days off this summer. Some vacation (Sarcasm)

Trying to figure if I simply have a bad school or what...........

something isn't adding up.

for starters.. at minimum you're probably entitled to 20 business days of vacation per annum, correct? ergo, unless you just started working, you're probably entitled to 10 of those days this summer, unless it's a special case and they'll give you the other 12 during winter. 10 Business days would mean a full 2 weeks. Don't let them count weekends, as they sometimes like to.

2nd.. re camp. Camps are 20 hours a week. So you're in camp for 2.5 days a week then?? that's the only way you should be at school for 8 hours. I've done abbreviated camps along such lines but I'm never obligated beyond 20 hours. Most people do 4 hours every morning and then go home. If you stay the full 8 hours during camp, hand in your set of *beep* immediately and just volunteer for indentured servitude.

do/did you read your contract? and if so, why are you going along with such nonsense? (I'm going off the gepik contract but I think they're all fairly similar on these fronts)

yes, you definitely have a "bad" school, but you don't have to accept anything less than the minimum benefts offered in the contract.

My camp starts July20 and finishes August 9th. I have 4 hours of camp per day 5 days a week. I must be at school 8:30 and leave at 4:30. I must be back in school Aug 23rd.

So my vacation is Aug 10-22. Yeah I'm rather ticked. I will have 9 vacation / business days vacation off. The other 12 will come in winter and chances are i will be required to deskwarm for 2 months in the winter.

According to the contract which is gov't Public school they are within their rights to do this and I am told "This is what we did last year". I also heard that all NSET's stay 1 yr and bolt after that. Gee I wonder why.

I must sign in and sign out each day. Login to a messenger. Sit in a chair when not teaching. Yes I was told this by the VP.

Here is the thing. This so called "Public School Job" is a hair away from a Hawgwon job. Vacation is one of the huge perks that attracts people to Public School.

The classes are much larger - the students worse behaved and much lower motivated etc. The salary is lower. But the long vacation makes up for it and balances it all out. This is because many schools are flexible with the contract and everyone goes home when the students are not there so you actually get more than the contracted amount of vacation days.

Now if you take that away...........suddenly you have lost the whole reason for being at Public School. Apparently the Public School big wigs in some schools never got the memo on this reality of Korea.

rainism

Joined: 13 Apr 2011

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:50 am Post subject:

runthegauntlet wrote:

rainism wrote:

well for starters. my contract isn't your contract. I don't work for EPIK.

yes, I've read what you've "said" and it's a bit ridiculous. You want standard expectation and uniformity in job situations (and life perhaps?)
such things don't exist. It's that simple. Some people are luckier than others. Ever hear of the saying.. "I'd rather be lucky than good"?

you're fighting windmills. But keep on the good fight and I'll keep chuckling.

I will agree with you (and others) on one thing. If they follow the contract to the strictest possible interpretation/letter, you can't really bitch. After all, you did sign the thing. All you can do is then refuse a renewal offer on the grounds they're being collective penises and they'll find another warm body to impose silly rules on.

I will say one thing though. If I had to face such constant petty BS, you could bet your behind I'd take my FULL allowance of "sick days" each and every semester (after all, it's IN "the contract", right?) As things are, I'm never sick. (unless I'm actually sick which is pretty much never)

runthegauntlet

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:44 am Post subject:

rainism wrote:

Well, for starters, you've already made it clear what contract you have and I never questioned that. You went off on some erroneous line about public school contracts and I pointedly showed you how you were wrong. A couple of times. Again, read carefully.

I'm not 'fighting' anything. You don't have a point or a position to fight. You just have your sanctimonious ideas of 'me' that you keep falling back on.

Yeah, it's ridiculous to suggest that contracts be followed accordingly, especially when said contracts are shared by thousands of people and the terms of said contracts are applied at random.

Who would ever come up with such an idea? 'Standard expectation' and 'uniformity'? In an organization's shared contract?! Madness!

But what a person you are! You'd stand up to that contractual BS! Yes, inspirational! But... wait, didn't you say it'd be fair if they followed the contract to the letter? Hmm, paradox.

Anyway, glad to see that your entire premise boils down to 'luck'. That's a bit of a change from the 'better workers' getting better 'perks', I guess. But yeah, luck is good. Never mind contracts or other workers, as long as 'I'm' the lucky one than forget anyone else.

Great thinking. Big thumbs up all around, mate.

runthegauntlet

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:48 am Post subject:

Firearcher wrote:

So my vacation is Aug 10-22. Yeah I'm rather ticked. I will have 9 vacation / business days vacation off. The other 12 will come in winter and chances are i will be required to deskwarm for 2 months in the winter.

According to the contract which is gov't Public school they are within their rights to do this and I am told "This is what we did last year". I also heard that all NSET's stay 1 yr and bolt after that. Gee I wonder why.

I must sign in and sign out each day. Login to a messenger. Sit in a chair when not teaching. Yes I was told this by the VP.

Here is the thing. This so called "Public School Job" is a hair away from a Hawgwon job. Vacation is one of the huge perks that attracts people to Public School.

The classes are much larger - the students worse behaved and much lower motivated etc. The salary is lower. But the long vacation makes up for it and balances it all out. This is because many schools are flexible with the contract and everyone goes home when the students are not there so you actually get more than the contracted amount of vacation days.

Now if you take that away...........suddenly you have lost the whole reason for being at Public School. Apparently the Public School big wigs in some schools never got the memo on this reality of Korea.

Did you not read the contract?

What fantasy world are you living in where you sign a contract explicitly stating the terms of your employment and then get 'ticked' when said terms are upheld?

You're crying over nothing. If you don't like it, don't resign. Go to GEPIK (but there again, according to 'Rainism' it's still all about 'luck') or wherever or try to amend your contract how you see fit.

It's pointedly ridiculous that you're whinging so much about this. Get a clue.

runthegauntlet

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Agreed

Firearcher wrote:

One of my co-teachers saw the expression on my face when i learned I had to desk warm all summer from 8:30-4:30 while the school is virtually empty........and she said "How is the economy in your country". .

Haha. Your coteacher sounds pretty clever.

An old coteacher and I were discussing deskwarming in an off-the-cuff conversation one time and she commented that desk-warming for a week or two was better than coming in every other Saturday for the year.

I agreed (though that'll be a mute point next year).

Oh, and as an addendum, the Korean English subject teachers at my school have to deskwarm this summer.

Firearcher

Joined: 22 Dec 2007

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:18 am Post subject:

runthegauntlet wrote:

Firearcher wrote:

Yes I read the contract. I have worked in gov't for several years and I renewed my exact same contract but at a different school. Each school does as it pleases and it IS a luck of the draw. This school micro manages and it does not say "We Micro Mange" in the contract. Same contract for several years - totally different application of the rules within the contract.

rainism

Joined: 13 Apr 2011

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:18 am Post subject: Re: Agreed

runthegauntlet wrote:

Firearcher wrote:

you're obviously at a shitty school. Enjoy Smile

(btw. I really had no idea EPIK contracts got so crappy. Several years ago they were on par and sometimes better than gepik)

no Korean teachers deskwarm at my school. Last time I checked they had to come in 2 days over the entire holidy to fulfill their "deskwarming duties and I don't think that has changed under the new principal.

yes, it'll add up to LUCK almost anywhere. You my lad, obviously had shitty luck and you don't like it when some get luckier than others.
but your entire life is luck. You were lucky to be born, because that particular sperm hit up that particular egg.
Your intelligence, looks, height, male pattern baldness, size of your tool, etc will depend on large measures of "luck". Your marriage and your kids will depend on luck. Your health will depend on luck.
get used to it. Or you'll die a very bitter old man.

people sign similar or same contracts all the time yet they're treated differently. happens all the time in the business world and in the sports world. Perhaps only in heavily unionized places where they really think everyone is the "same" that such crap comes up.

in my particular case, I knew I had a good shot at a less banal contract interpretation because I specifically checked/double checked certain important parts in my communication with the departing NET and the phone interview with my to be handler. this was one of the "good" schools. That's why I took that particular job. Regimes have changed and contracts have gotten more banal but my situation has stayed the same. Each year I'm asked to stay and I always ask one question. My working conditions stay the same, right? The moment they do not, if I still want to be in Korea, I'll go try my "luck" somewhere else.

Squire

Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:59 am Post subject:

rainism wrote:

if you're in after 1 pm during camp, then you have no one to blame except yourself. Camp clauses I think are standard in all ps contacts and I'm fairly sure that they state 20 hours.

most schools allow their nets to go home once camp hour are finished, the contract isn't specific on this. If you're staying the full day, you're re simply getting reamed.

quit now. for that very reason. I probably would.

I'll have a look at my contract, thanks. To be honest I've only heard from my coteacher that I'm in all day during camp and she isn't the most reliable. She probably thought I was asking a completely different question if past conversations are anything to go by

I certainly wouldn't quit over this. I really like my job otherwise and haven't ran into any problems with the management yet

* Okay I just looked at my contract and all it said was I have to spend at least 20 classroom hours per week for two weeks during summer and winter holidays for camp. Nothing else. In that case presumably they are just normal school vacation days that I'm expected to spend at school, 9 til 5 Crying or Very sad

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