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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| jpaul0983 wrote: |
| Thanks guys. Some of the advice, particularly regarding the labour board is much appreciated. But i'm a little surprised at the attitude of some of the posters here. I know a lot of foreigners treat the local people with contempt and mistrust, refuse to go out with the boss unless 3 months notice are given, and then its only for 1 drink before they make excuses about having plans already. Some see Koreans to be used and abused but i dont go along with that, i chose this school because the boss was decent, friendly and above all willing to negotiate and work outside the normal rules, hence i will have received about 10 weeks vacation in a 18 months if it all goes to plan. . |
Dude...I'm usually called an "apologist" for Korea because I criticize other posters who do that kind of stuff you mention. But this is just...strange. Someone willing to work outside the normal rules...that's normal for hakwon bosses. What you should have done is found someone who was willing to stick to the normal rules, like paying you for your work. You've not been paid for 3 months which means you are clearly being used.
Hakwon bosses love people like you. She got you to forgo your severance pay, and your airfare and take a pay cut just by the threat of firing you. I can see her bringing up this story at the local hakwon association and after her and her pals are finished laughing themselves sick at your folly the other hakwon directors will think "well if she did this, then so can I!"
And to answer your question, no. If your school goes bust or can't pay you, then you are simply out of luck. And that is that. |
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Nester Noodlemon
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:07 am Post subject: |
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What can you do?
Be firm! Give them a notice. Tell them, "within the next 6 months, if you haven't began paying me, I'm going to walk out that door, never come back, and you'll never hear from me again!"
Remember, be firm! |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| within the next 6 months, if you haven't began paying me |
Are you sure about that? 3 months so far and another 6 months? That's 9 months!!!
You could have a baby by then and need the 18,000,000 won 
I would never wait 6 months to get paid. |
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
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| within the next 6 months, if you haven't began paying me |
Are you sure about that? 3 months so far and another 6 months? That's 9 months!!!
You could have a baby by then and need the 18,000,000 won
I would never wait 6 months to get paid. |
I sensed sarcasm in that post.
Better yet OP. Tell your boss that you will start paying her for the privilege of working there.
You can build on that great working relationship you got going with her. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:32 am Post subject: |
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I don't understand, your boss fired you. By agreeing to continue you agreed top work free. I work for money myself and if I didn't want money, I wouldn't be giving my time to a Hagwon, when many needy children can't afford them.
Try the local orphanages if you want to work free, otherwise get a job and stop wasting your time here. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:08 am Post subject: |
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I was in a similar situation.
You simply can't feel sorry for your boss or you will never get paid.
Tell her either you get paid by the end of this week or you are leaving.
Simple as that. If she does have any money she will pay.
If she really has no money, at least you will know that much.
Don't take any excuses or let it drag out longer, just don't.
If no money is forthcoming,
leave without your money, contact the labor board if you want to.
Staying longer will only dig the hole deeper. |
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jpaul0983
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Once again, some people providing some good opinions about what to do next.
Others, well... what can you expect from the kind of people who visit a forum every day to comment on other peoples problems. Youre going to get some cynical, sarcastic, know-it-alls with the power of hindsight and clearly much better judgement than everybody else.
I didn't negotiate a 'non-payment plan' or agree to work for free. I agreed to work for a sum of money that has not been paid and it IS stated in a contract, even the renewed agreement.
I don't see why negotiating 9 weeks of vacation over 18 months means i don't care about my kids' education. Would you say public school teachers in the USA and UK don't care about kids education? or sports players don't care about their sport? Seriously comments like these are why i'd sooner trust a lucky 8-ball than some of the people on this site. I really can see the disdain many people here have for Korea, it's people and the private education system. To just leave after 1 month of no money might be the safe option, but it threatens the stability of the school and after getting to know my boss, someone who has built a school with a good reputation among the families, it would be ashame to see it go to waste.
Incidently besides the lack of payment, i renegotiated a pretty good deal and my new benefits were at stake if i were to leave. After firing me, she had no teacher and needed me to stay, so i negotiated 6 extra weeks of vacation, the opportunity to change apartment and reduced work hours of 4.5 hours per day down from 8, also 10% less classes so evenings are free. That's why i didn't want to leave, because i have great kids and an extremely rare opportunity to have an easy jobs with what should be a good salary and benefits. Its so good that i would probably still teach there for half the pay, many of the classes are not like work at all.
Also i don't NEED the money right away, that's why i was cool about getting paid later. However, this just in... a notice was put on my old apartment door saying tv and internet bills haven't been paid for 3 months and its going to be cut off. So it's time for a showdown! If she cant afford 100k how can she afford 3m?
Finally, i didnt come here to argue with people... i was seeking legal advice because i dont know what happens when a hagwon goes bankrupt... if all the teachers end up out of pocket. But as i've since learned, her assets would get sold off and i could recoup some money by making a claim. Oh and China IS owed money the same way I am. If you own someone's debt, then they owe you. China owns trillions of dollars of US debt and more than 100% of it's GDP. It would be like if my boss owed me all the money she makes in a year and then some. I doubt China will ever see that money, but I might have a chance... |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| jpaul0983 wrote: |
I didn't negotiate a 'non-payment plan' or agree to work for free. I agreed to work for a sum of money that has not been paid and it IS stated in a contract, even the renewed agreement.
. But as i've since learned, her assets would get sold off and i could recoup some money by making a claim. |
If the money has NOT been paid...then you ARE working for free. Why is this such a hard concept?
And as for the hakwon going bankrupt and collecting...good luck. Hakwon bosses are known for a variety of tactics when this happens including but not limited to: Taking all the money collected and disappearing, "selling" the hakwon to a friend and declaring bankruptcy and transferring assets to a partner or friend until the court settlement.
And other Koreans (suppliers and employees) will likely get first shot at any assets as all documents will be in Korean and you will have to find someone willing to translate them for you. Probably have to pay for that as well. |
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jpaul0983
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Did your parents pay for your house in full? if not, are they living for free? No, i've been paid 5 months in full, but the last 3 months have not been paid YET, but there's a contractual obligation to do so. Therefore i did not agree to work for free, contrary to what one babo stipulated. If I was working for free, then I would have signed in the contract 0won per month or never signed any contract, neither of which is the case. I will only have worked for free if a school with 80 kids suddenly closes all business and therefore the daughter of one of the town's wealthiest landowners goes bust, 6 Korean staff and myself lose jobs and money owed to us. I dont see it happening, so right now it's not working for free. It's just not being paid money that is owed.
But thanks for the heads up on some of the closing down strategies and legal costs. That is a worry. But now i have a gamblers dilemma of leaving while im down and probably turning my back on the money owed to me, or keep gambling (working) with the greater risk of losing more income. I'll try to get some detailed financial information from the boss to see what the long term future is like, but i doubt i'll get the truth. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| If you own someone's debt, then they owe you. |
You need a lesson in economics. If you own someone's debt, you can ONLY have influence on their existing money.
Outside of that, you don't have anything.
Let's simplify it. You put 1 dollar in the bank, and you do NOTHING with it. It loses value. The 1 dollar you have today, is 99 cents or less tomorrow.
This is why you need to get your 1 dollar NOW, invest it, then you can get 1 dollar a one cent or more later. It's easier for a millionaire to become a multi-millionaire based on this premise.
However, you are not getting anything, so you have nothing to invest. Does Apple "need" money? Doesn't Justin Bieber (OMG it Justin Bieber) need money? Does a pastor at the local church need money?
NO, none of them need more money, but yet they are still asking for it. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| jpaul0983 wrote: |
| Did your parents pay for your house in full? if not, are they living for free? No, i've been paid 5 months in full, but the last 3 months have not been paid YET, but there's a contractual obligation to do so. . |
See here's the rub though. You stated (in your first post) that this was a VERBAL agreement not a written contractual agreement.
My question to you is this. Suppose she denies that she made any agreement whatsoever?
It would then be your word against yours when it comes to court and if you can't speak Korean and no one is there to interpret for you...guess who's going to win?
I hope you get your money...but you have opened the door to getting shafted six ways to Sunday.
I would suggest speaking to her as soon as possible to try to get some money out of her. But if she hasn't paid for three months chances are very high that she will never pay or at least not pay until her back is against the wall. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:37 am Post subject: |
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You say you don't need the money right now, that's fine.
However, if you stay longer (and still don't get paid) sooner or later you
WILL need the money. If she can't pay you now, she surely won't be able to pay then.
Do yourself a huge favor, get out while you still have enough to support your self while you look for a new job. |
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busanliving
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| What I don't understand is that she had problems paying your salary so decided to fire you for someone cheaper, when she couldn't find someone else she decided to pay your salary for you to go on vacation for several weeks. If she couldn't afford to pay you to work then how did it make any economical sense for her to pay you to not work? Also why are you getting notes about unpaid bills? Does she deduct the bills from your salary and pay them? Or does she pay them herself? Because if she does, and she is also paying for your excessive vacation time then I am not surprised she is having money issues. |
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