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hank25000
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
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 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:46 am Post subject: |
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Ok..
I don't know what the more precise details of your situation are BUT if you are plannign to leave, you need to do one thing more than anything else:
DON'T TELL ANYONE
Everything past that is a bonus. Send me a private message and I will tell you what I did 6 years ago when I did a runner. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| lalartu wrote: |
| oooor you could do it the legal way...give them a "whatever number it says in your contract" weeks notice that you're quitting and they'll be obliged to pay you everything. meanwhile look for a new job |
There's always someone that will say that.
Why would they give the boss notice? He obviously doesn't care about ethics or the law. He's been screwing over the teachers enough already. You think that they haven't had enough of it already and want to take one more up the backside for good measure?
To the OP, i you're quitting, then just quit. Get your papers ready. Do some job hunting (with a different recruiter, and in a different city/neighborhood). Then when you've got something else set up, leave the day after you get paid. If you're not sure about payday because it's not always on time, then just take the ferry to Japan. You don't need to book that in advance. |
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cedarseoul
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: nowon-gu
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Two teachers just recently pulled a runner at my academy. It was unexpected and unwarranted; our director is kind/fair, and these teachers were treated well. :::shrug::: I don't know why they did it. It's created a few migraines, that's for sure.
That said, I know my situation is unusually GOOD as far as academies go...and there are definitely times when the poor working conditions warrant an early departure. And in those situations, giving 60 days notice probably means 60 days' work without pay...so maybe a "midnight run" is justifiable.
Just consider your co-workers (if you have any). They are the ones who will be screwed--combined classes, longer hours, stress. Maybe it's worth it. Maybe not. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| cedarseoul wrote: |
Just consider your co-workers (if you have any). They are the ones who will be screwed--combined classes, longer hours, stress. Maybe it's worth it. Maybe not. |
If the owner gives the other employees extra hours to cover for a missing employee, it's not the fault of the missing employee. It's the owners fault for not having a contingency plan. It's not like they're all working on some kind of commune. If the other employees are being forced to do the extra work or work unpaid, then again... it's the fault of the shady owner and the rest of them should also be walking out the door. The fact that they tolerate an unscrupulous employer means that THEY have no consideration for everyone because they lower the bar for the rest of us. They essentially tell employers that it's alright to treat us like crap because we're willing to take it. |
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jeremysums
Joined: 08 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Midnight run... good idea, bad idea? |
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There should be a runner hotline.
| L_orna wrote: |
Hey there...
Ok so I have posted some topics up of late asking for advice on hagwon issues...
Having had money withheld from our wages, persistent cockroaches in our apartment and other undesirable circumstances, myself and my friend have decided we want to leave.
We have considered telling them we are leaving as soon as we are paid, but are worried they will try to take money off us for this. They have already kept half our first months wages. We have also considered doing a midnight run, yet I am a bit wary about doing this, not to mention feeling a bit guilty about it.
Is it true you can be detained at immigration for doing this?
Or should we just give them a weeks notice or so and hope for the best??
any help will be appreciated. |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Midnight run... good idea, bad idea? |
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| L_orna wrote: |
Hey there...
Ok so I have posted some topics up of late asking for advice on hagwon issues...
Having had money withheld from our wages, persistent cockroaches in our apartment and other undesirable circumstances, myself and my friend have decided we want to leave.
We have considered telling them we are leaving as soon as we are paid, but are worried they will try to take money off us for this. They have already kept half our first months wages. We have also considered doing a midnight run, yet I am a bit wary about doing this, not to mention feeling a bit guilty about it.
Is it true you can be detained at immigration for doing this?
Or should we just give them a weeks notice or so and hope for the best??
any help will be appreciated. |
Since this has been bumped up I will say something here. I am not a fan of midnight runs, I do not encourage them nor do I become friends of those who do them.
You may think you are hurting the school or getting even with the owners or a co-teacher but the real victims are the students and doing something bad to them is very wrong.
You also make it harder for the FT who follows you and has to cleanup the mess you left behind. Follow your contract, give the proper notice, act like an adult, then you will know you did the right thing and abided by your word and agreement.
If you get screwed then that is on the owners not you. I think it is better to be able to look yourself in the mirror than slapping yourself on the back, congratulating yourself for screwing (getting even with) a hagwon or school.
For real teachers, the students are the most important part of teaching. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| cedarseoul wrote: |
Just consider your co-workers (if you have any). They are the ones who will be screwed--combined classes, longer hours, stress. Maybe it's worth it. Maybe not. |
If the owner gives the other employees extra hours to cover for a missing employee, it's not the fault of the missing employee. It's the owners fault for not having a contingency plan.
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Don't be silly.
In any business, in the US, Korea or wherever, when an employee is suddenly not available work - due to illness, a death in the family, resigniation or termination - the other employees will be asked to cover that work until a replacement can be found. In the US, I have worked massive overtime, 7 day weeks and 18 hour days in such situations. As long as the remaining workers are paid, they should expect to help out. Managers, in fact, will work without pay to cover such labor crunches.
A contingency plan is fine, but in Korea it is illegal to bring in a temp E2 teacher, the number of F teachers means there may be no one available on short notice, and if Korean teachers could fill the spot, they already would be filling the spot.
The fact is that a very high percentage of the foreign teachers are losers who should not be in Korea. They often create their own problems. Many who run away continue to run, or be fired, again and again. Many of the self-reported runners on Dave's have, in fact, actually been fired. There are whiners who complain about their school who have been through three, four, five and more jobs per year - and it's always the school's fault. Running from a good job in advance of being fired, pretending to run after being fired, running instead of trying to work out minor problems - the stock in trade of the losers who deserve none of the sympathy they are freely accorded on Dave's.
The best solution was and is (as I've said before) for teachers to own their own visas.
This way good schools could fire bad teachers and replace them by seeking out the good ones. They wouldn't have to try to train or manage the losers who seem almost good enough, or who might be acceptable if only they can fix certain problems. They could fire the worst of the freaky losers instantly without notice and bring in a new teacher who is available instantly. The losers will whine still, but they'll have to go home.
And good teachers would be free to leave bad schools and seek out better opportunities in the same way.
What we need is a free labor market. |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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The best solution was and is (as I've said before) for teachers to own their own visas.
This way good schools could fire bad teachers and replace them by seeking out the good ones. They wouldn't have to try to train or manage the losers who seem almost good enough, or who might be acceptable if only they can fix certain problems. They could fire the worst of the freaky losers instantly without notice and bring in a new teacher who is available instantly. The losers will whine still, but they'll have to go home.
And good teachers would be free to leave bad schools and seek out better opportunities in the same way.
What we need is a free labor market. |
This is a bad and very misguided idea. I don't even want to get into it how bad it really is for in the long run it is the students that suffer and that is not right. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
| Quote: |
The best solution was and is (as I've said before) for teachers to own their own visas.
This way good schools could fire bad teachers and replace them by seeking out the good ones. They wouldn't have to try to train or manage the losers who seem almost good enough, or who might be acceptable if only they can fix certain problems. They could fire the worst of the freaky losers instantly without notice and bring in a new teacher who is available instantly. The losers will whine still, but they'll have to go home.
And good teachers would be free to leave bad schools and seek out better opportunities in the same way.
What we need is a free labor market. |
This is a bad and very misguided idea. I don't even want to get into it how bad it really is for in the long run it is the students that suffer and that is not right. |
How is it bad to get rid of those horrible people who shouldn't be here? They are harmful to their students and under the current system they continue to be employed.
How is it bad to allow good teachers the chance to leave bad schools? The bad schools would fail and the students could go to the better schools that remain and employ the better teachers. |
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marsreloaded
Joined: 23 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Midnight run... good idea, bad idea? |
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| calendar wrote: |
| L_orna wrote: |
Hey there...
Ok so I have posted some topics up of late asking for advice on hagwon issues...
Having had money withheld from our wages, persistent cockroaches in our apartment and other undesirable circumstances, myself and my friend have decided we want to leave.
We have considered telling them we are leaving as soon as we are paid, but are worried they will try to take money off us for this. They have already kept half our first months wages. We have also considered doing a midnight run, yet I am a bit wary about doing this, not to mention feeling a bit guilty about it.
Is it true you can be detained at immigration for doing this?
Or should we just give them a weeks notice or so and hope for the best??
any help will be appreciated. |
Since this has been bumped up I will say something here. I am not a fan of midnight runs, I do not encourage them nor do I become friends of those who do them. |
HAAHAHAHAHAH. Oh no, I wouldn't want that!
I've pulled a runner before. One thing I've learned about Korea, these hagwon owners don't give a damn about you and if you know they're screwing you over, get out asap. Don't be taken advantage of. You're not a prisoner. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
| cedarseoul wrote: |
Just consider your co-workers (if you have any). They are the ones who will be screwed--combined classes, longer hours, stress. Maybe it's worth it. Maybe not. |
If the owner gives the other employees extra hours to cover for a missing employee, it's not the fault of the missing employee. It's the owners fault for not having a contingency plan.
|
Don't be silly.
In any business, in the US, Korea or wherever, when an employee is suddenly not available work - due to illness, a death in the family, resigniation or termination - the other employees will be asked to cover that work until a replacement can be found. In the US, I have worked massive overtime, 7 day weeks and 18 hour days in such situations. As long as the remaining workers are paid, they should expect to help out. Managers, in fact, will work without pay to cover such labor crunches.
A contingency plan is fine, but in Korea it is illegal to bring in a temp E2 teacher, the number of F teachers means there may be no one available on short notice, and if Korean teachers could fill the spot, they already would be filling the spot.
The fact is that a very high percentage of the foreign teachers are losers who should not be in Korea. They often create their own problems. Many who run away continue to run, or be fired, again and again. Many of the self-reported runners on Dave's have, in fact, actually been fired. There are whiners who complain about their school who have been through three, four, five and more jobs per year - and it's always the school's fault. Running from a good job in advance of being fired, pretending to run after being fired, running instead of trying to work out minor problems - the stock in trade of the losers who deserve none of the sympathy they are freely accorded on Dave's.
The best solution was and is (as I've said before) for teachers to own their own visas.
This way good schools could fire bad teachers and replace them by seeking out the good ones. They wouldn't have to try to train or manage the losers who seem almost good enough, or who might be acceptable if only they can fix certain problems. They could fire the worst of the freaky losers instantly without notice and bring in a new teacher who is available instantly. The losers will whine still, but they'll have to go home.
And good teachers would be free to leave bad schools and seek out better opportunities in the same way.
What we need is a free labor market. |
While I don't usually agree with Mr. ontheway....he is 100% correct on this. Due to the strict visa regulations a "contingency plan" just isn't in the cards for any but the largest hakwons and sometimes not even then.
As for visa ownership that would fix a whole lot of problems. Not only bad teachers but also bad hakwons. No LOR needed you can just walk away from a bad situation. |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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HAAHAHAHAHAH. Oh no, I wouldn't want that!
I've pulled a runner before. One thing I've learned about Korea, these hagwon owners don't give a damn about you and if you know they're screwing you over, get out asap. Don't be taken advantage of. You're not a prisoner. |
We won't be friends. I have no respect for anyone who does a midnight run. If you can't stick to your word, which you gave by signing the contract, then your credibility is shot.
| Quote: |
| As for visa ownership that would fix a whole lot of problems. Not only bad teachers but also bad hakwons. No LOR needed you can just walk away from a bad situation |
The ideal is always better than the reality. This would cause a lot more problems than exist now and would do nothing to stop bad hakwons. There is always enough wannabe teachers waiting for a job. The supply outweighs those who would quit. Nor would it stop bad teachers from securing other work in other hakwons. There i senough hakwons out there and many cities where they could go.
With this system I highly doubt many schools or hakwons would hire foreigners because of the fear of them leaving when the slightest problem arises. You people are dreaming if you think this system would replace the current one. |
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marsreloaded
Joined: 23 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
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HAAHAHAHAHAH. Oh no, I wouldn't want that!
I've pulled a runner before. One thing I've learned about Korea, these hagwon owners don't give a damn about you and if you know they're screwing you over, get out asap. Don't be taken advantage of. You're not a prisoner. |
We won't be friends. I have no respect for anyone who does a midnight run. If you can't stick to your word, which you gave by signing the contract, then your credibility is shot. |
Have the apologists ever failed to outdo themselves here?
It's like going to a performance arts show for free at this point. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
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HAAHAHAHAHAH. Oh no, I wouldn't want that!
I've pulled a runner before. One thing I've learned about Korea, these hagwon owners don't give a damn about you and if you know they're screwing you over, get out asap. Don't be taken advantage of. You're not a prisoner. |
We won't be friends. I have no respect for anyone who does a midnight run. If you can't stick to your word, which you gave by signing the contract, then your credibility is shot.
. |
So if the hakwon owner is violating the contract is it still valid? |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| calendar wrote: |
| Quote: |
HAAHAHAHAHAH. Oh no, I wouldn't want that!
I've pulled a runner before. One thing I've learned about Korea, these hagwon owners don't give a damn about you and if you know they're screwing you over, get out asap. Don't be taken advantage of. You're not a prisoner. |
We won't be friends. I have no respect for anyone who does a midnight run. If you can't stick to your word, which you gave by signing the contract, then your credibility is shot.
. |
So if the hakwon owner is violating the contract is it still valid? |
Do two wrongs make a right? If the owner violates the contract you still have to abide by it and give notice. It is better to do things right than to lower yourself to the supposed violater's level. |
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