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brickabrack
Joined: 17 May 2010
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 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Don't get caught. Rules are meant to be broken. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Something to keep in mind as well are overseas Koreans. They can be from all walks of life, and still come here on an F visa.
So when we say that Canadians (or whathaveyou) are from the middle class and are university educated, we are only talking about E visa holders.
As far as I know, F visa holders are still classified as foreigners and can be added to these statistics. |
Aren't F- visa holders foreigners? After all if they weren't they wouldn't NEED a visa in the first place? |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Something to keep in mind as well are overseas Koreans. They can be from all walks of life, and still come here on an F visa.
So when we say that Canadians (or whathaveyou) are from the middle class and are university educated, we are only talking about E visa holders.
As far as I know, F visa holders are still classified as foreigners and can be added to these statistics. |
Aren't F- visa holders foreigners? After all if they weren't they wouldn't NEED a visa in the first place? |
Yeah, they are foreigners. I think he's trying to say a lot of people don't think of fully bilingual gyopos who probably have spent a large part of their life in Korea as "foreigners"--but if they obtained citizenship to another country they are foreigners.
I read a newspaper article recently about some Canadians caught importing and selling some kind of hard drugs in Seoul. The article revealed they were all young gyopos without a university education, from a major city in Canada (I can't remember which). This would count as a drug offence among Canadians, even if all those guys grew up and did elementary school in Korea.
Obviously Korean-Americans can be model American citizens and many are, but many also grow up in poor parts of LA which can rub off on some. Or Vancouver, or Toronto, or whatever. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, that was my point. Someone said that crime rates amongst Canadians here SHOULD be lower because they are all middle class, university educated.
I brought up the F visa to show otherwise. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| chungbukdo wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Something to keep in mind as well are overseas Koreans. They can be from all walks of life, and still come here on an F visa.
So when we say that Canadians (or whathaveyou) are from the middle class and are university educated, we are only talking about E visa holders.
As far as I know, F visa holders are still classified as foreigners and can be added to these statistics. |
Aren't F- visa holders foreigners? After all if they weren't they wouldn't NEED a visa in the first place? |
Yeah, they are foreigners. I think he's trying to say a lot of people don't think of fully bilingual gyopos who probably have spent a large part of their life in Korea as "foreigners"--but if they obtained citizenship to another country they are foreigners.
I read a newspaper article recently about some Canadians caught importing and selling some kind of hard drugs in Seoul. The article revealed they were all young gyopos without a university education, from a major city in Canada (I can't remember which). This would count as a drug offence among Canadians, even if all those guys grew up and did elementary school in Korea.
Obviously Korean-Americans can be model American citizens and many are, but many also grow up in poor parts of LA which can rub off on some. Or Vancouver, or Toronto, or whatever. |
I think Korea needs to revise their F4 visa system. Say an F4 for ethnic Koreans born outside of Korea and grew up outside of Korea. And and F4-2 for gyopos born in Korea, or spent a significant time of their schooling in Korea and therefore be scrutinized more. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris.Quigley wrote: |
While I am glad to hear that Canadians had a crime rate of 2% (much of it probably minor crimes) I still wish that the statistic was closer to zero...
When you think about it, that means that 1/50 (on average) Canadians you meet is dumb enough to break the law at some point during their stay in Korea...
Obviously, we are also a more criminal people than Americans... although perhaps many crimes by US soldiers don't show up in the statistics? (I don't know, just saying). |
Don't forget, a lot of arrests are actually for things Korean's cant get arrested for: visa issues.
| Hiromi C wrote: |
| US service members are almost certainly underrepresented in those statistics; it specifically says the metric for this study is people charged by "police around the country" (which presumably means Korean police). Most service members are ultimately charged by MPs/SPs, even if they were originally detained by Korean police. |
But it makes a good statistic for tracking the behavior of English teachers. I'm glad that the military iisn't included in the statistics, as I feel many other foreigners would be quick to remark on how they're so much better behaved than the Americans. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| r122925 wrote: |
Also, I don't think it's really fair to compare the rate for Canadian English teachers to the Korean population as a whole. Canadian English teachers are generally middle class, university educated, and relatively mentally stable individuals. The Korean stats are going to include everyone... that means high school dropouts, the mentally ill, and other career-criminals that if they were Canadian would never be issued a visa to come here. I would expect the Canadian number to be much lower. |
It is fair because its an article in response to the media attention foreigners get when they commit crimes. Its actually the only fair comparison.
| chungbukdo wrote: |
I know a Canadian who got caught with the crime of "educating someone who willingly sought them out in order to improve their lot in life." When will these Canadians learn that educating someone is not a victimless crime--they may end up corrupting the youth like Socrates. And for that they can be sentenced to banishment, like Socrates. |
Wasn't Socrates given the death penalty? |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| akcrono wrote: |
| r122925 wrote: |
Also, I don't think it's really fair to compare the rate for Canadian English teachers to the Korean population as a whole. Canadian English teachers are generally middle class, university educated, and relatively mentally stable individuals. The Korean stats are going to include everyone... that means high school dropouts, the mentally ill, and other career-criminals that if they were Canadian would never be issued a visa to come here. I would expect the Canadian number to be much lower. |
It is fair because its an article in response to the media attention foreigners get when they commit crimes. Its actually the only fair comparison.
| chungbukdo wrote: |
I know a Canadian who got caught with the crime of "educating someone who willingly sought them out in order to improve their lot in life." When will these Canadians learn that educating someone is not a victimless crime--they may end up corrupting the youth like Socrates. And for that they can be sentenced to banishment, like Socrates. |
Wasn't Socrates given the death penalty? |
He was indeed given the death penalty although it was commonly understood that exile was an option through bribery. |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| akcrono wrote: |
Wasn't Socrates given the death penalty? |
He actually had the option of banishment in The Apology but decided to insult the judges by proposing that they award him for his "crimes." Wikipedia:
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It was the tradition that the prosecution and the defendant each propose a penalty, from which the court would choose. In this section, Socrates antagonises the court even further when considering his proposition.
Socrates' proposed 'penalty' was what most upset the judges: as a benefactor to Athens, free meals in the Prytaneum, one of the important buildings which housed members of the Council. This was an honour reserved for athletes and other prominent citizens.
Finally Socrates considers imprisonment and banishment before settling on a fine of 100 drachmae, as he had little funds of his own with which he could pay the fine. This was a small sum when weighed against the punishment proposed by the prosecutors and encouraged the judges to vote for the death penalty. Socrates' supporters immediately increased the amount to 3,000 drachmae, but in the eyes of the judges this was still not an alternative.
So the judges decided on the sentence of death. |
Like if you were caught teaching someone and improving their life, and then an immigration officer wants to raid your bank account and throw you out of the country, and he asks, "Well what do you think would be an appropriate punishment?" And you say, "I should get an award for taking this student from a D to an A in 2 semesters." Usually such a scumbag would be easier on you if you acknowledged his moral right to exist by acting remorseful, rather than asserting you have a right to teach people (by implication you would be saying that his career is a sham and he is a bully). |
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Hiromi C
Joined: 28 May 2011
Location: Gwanak-gu, Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| You wouldn't happen to have any support for that assertion, would you, Hiromi? Plenty of Servicemembers who get apprehended by Korean police are charged, prosecuted, and punished in the Korean judicial system. A quick perusal of the monthly 8th US Army judicial report would indicate that the military isn't (since it can't) running ramrod over Korea's system. |
Personal experience, which is admittedly anecdotal and thus not purely scientific.
Nevertheless, while I was stationed in Korea, I knew plenty of other soldiers who ended up getting Article 15s or other UCMJ action, but to the best of my knowledge, no one I knew was actually brought to court in Korea.
This is not to say that it doesn't happen; I'm positive that it does. I am quite certain that the Korean police allow the US military to handle most unruly GIs, though. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| chungbukdo wrote: |
| akcrono wrote: |
Wasn't Socrates given the death penalty? |
He actually had the option of banishment in The Apology but decided to insult the judges by proposing that they award him for his "crimes." Wikipedia:
| Quote: |
It was the tradition that the prosecution and the defendant each propose a penalty, from which the court would choose. In this section, Socrates antagonises the court even further when considering his proposition.
Socrates' proposed 'penalty' was what most upset the judges: as a benefactor to Athens, free meals in the Prytaneum, one of the important buildings which housed members of the Council. This was an honour reserved for athletes and other prominent citizens.
Finally Socrates considers imprisonment and banishment before settling on a fine of 100 drachmae, as he had little funds of his own with which he could pay the fine. This was a small sum when weighed against the punishment proposed by the prosecutors and encouraged the judges to vote for the death penalty. Socrates' supporters immediately increased the amount to 3,000 drachmae, but in the eyes of the judges this was still not an alternative.
So the judges decided on the sentence of death. |
Like if you were caught teaching someone and improving their life, and then an immigration officer wants to raid your bank account and throw you out of the country, and he asks, "Well what do you think would be an appropriate punishment?" And you say, "I should get an award for taking this student from a D to an A in 2 semesters." Usually such a scumbag would be easier on you if you acknowledged his moral right to exist by acting remorseful, rather than asserting you have a right to teach people (by implication you would be saying that his career is a sham and he is a bully). |
i have a question that i really want the answer to: are you talking about private, illegal teaching when you're doing these indignant diatribes?
because if so, you don't have a leg to stand on. it's an illegal activity, and should be treated as such. if you willingly break the law after going to a country, and then rationalise said breaking using your own twisted logic, then you deserve every punishment the law can give you.
what's more, you're an idiot. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
| chungbukdo wrote: |
| akcrono wrote: |
Wasn't Socrates given the death penalty? |
He actually had the option of banishment in The Apology but decided to insult the judges by proposing that they award him for his "crimes." Wikipedia:
| Quote: |
It was the tradition that the prosecution and the defendant each propose a penalty, from which the court would choose. In this section, Socrates antagonises the court even further when considering his proposition.
Socrates' proposed 'penalty' was what most upset the judges: as a benefactor to Athens, free meals in the Prytaneum, one of the important buildings which housed members of the Council. This was an honour reserved for athletes and other prominent citizens.
Finally Socrates considers imprisonment and banishment before settling on a fine of 100 drachmae, as he had little funds of his own with which he could pay the fine. This was a small sum when weighed against the punishment proposed by the prosecutors and encouraged the judges to vote for the death penalty. Socrates' supporters immediately increased the amount to 3,000 drachmae, but in the eyes of the judges this was still not an alternative.
So the judges decided on the sentence of death. |
Like if you were caught teaching someone and improving their life, and then an immigration officer wants to raid your bank account and throw you out of the country, and he asks, "Well what do you think would be an appropriate punishment?" And you say, "I should get an award for taking this student from a D to an A in 2 semesters." Usually such a scumbag would be easier on you if you acknowledged his moral right to exist by acting remorseful, rather than asserting you have a right to teach people (by implication you would be saying that his career is a sham and he is a bully). |
i have a question that i really want the answer to: are you talking about private, illegal teaching when you're doing these indignant diatribes?
because if so, you don't have a leg to stand on. it's an illegal activity, and should be treated as such. if you willingly break the law after going to a country, and then rationalise said breaking using your own twisted logic, then you deserve every punishment the law can give you.
what's more, you're an idiot. |
Because morality = legality, amirite?
What's more, you're an idiot. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| It's a good thing that there's a lot of affordable public transportation...otherwise both Koreans and NETs would see their crime rates skyrocket for DWI |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I find it oddly amusing that someone who can't be bothered to use capital letters calls another person an idiot. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| I find it oddly amusing that someone who can't be bothered to use capital letters calls another person an idiot. |
fair enough.
all i'm arguing is that if you break the law in a foreign country while knowingly doing something that is, in fact, against the law, you deserve to be fully punished - no matter how ridiculous you think the law is.
try to rationalise it all you want. you're still BREAKING THE LAW. IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY.
whatever. |
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