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Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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 Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you, I mis-read it then. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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China lags in pay but is expanding rapidly. I've heard that once in China its not difficult to get a much higher pay that is advertised on forums and although it falls behind Korea in pay if you take into consideration a much lower cost of living in some parts (southern China and outside the major cities), you can save as much as you can in Korea. There are also non teaching opportunities in China as well. Many north american and european companies trying to get in and need consultants, representatives, etc. China seems to be the future and some are getting in early.
Japan already pays higher than Korea but its the tax and cost of living that brings it lower in terms of money you can save but again, once you're in Japan, you can do better.
Another country that has not gotten noticed but has wages that are very competitive is Vietnam. Very low cost of living and the amount you can save is comparable to Korea.
Korea is going to get pressure from other countries and they will lose people to other Asian countries who are offering better and better packages. |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: EPIK going downhill? |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
Just got a random recruitment email telling me to apply to 2012 EPIK program. I'm already in it. But terms and benefits outlined as follows:
Airfare
� Airfare: Within the first month of the contract, all EPIK GETs, regardless of level, will be provided with 1,300,000 KRW of Entrance Allowance.
(To prevent early termination of contracts, Entrance Allowance is issued as a form of a loan from the employer to the EPIK GET. In the event that the contract is terminated with six (6) months of its implementation, including renewal contracts, regardless of course or grounds, the EPIK GET will repay the above-mentioned loan to the EPIK office immediately.)
� Exit Allowance: 1,300,000 KRW is provided upon successful completion of the 1 year contract and when the contract is not renewed.
� Renewal Allowance: 2,000,000 KRW will be provided upon successful completion and renewal of your contract.
Housing
� Furnished housing is provided as a part of your remuneration, and is arranged by the school. There are two housing options:
1. Paid single housing provided.
2. If a teacher already has his or her own housing (or in the rare case that housing cannot be arranged by the school) a monthly rent subsidy of KRW 300,000 will be provided
� Furnishings will consist of a bed, a microwave, a refrigerator, a gas stove, a kitchen table and chairs, a home phone, a wardrobe, a washing machine, and a television, blankets, bowls, cups, utensils, etc. (total aggregate value of KRW 2,000,000)
� Maintenance fees, utilities (gas, electricity, water), and other monthly expenses are the responsibility of the teacher
Vacation and Sick Leave
� Paid vacation: 21 calendar days paid vacation per year, plus all National Holidays
� Unpaid vacation: teachers that re-sign after completion of their first contract receive a 14-day unpaid �home leave� between contracts
� Special paid leave: for your marriage (7 days), or a death in the family (5-7 days)
� Sick leave: with the approval of your employer, paid sick leave can be arranged under special circumstances if both notice and approval occur before the beginning of such leave and a medical diagnosis justifying such leave is submitted
Health Insurance and Other Deductions
� Income Tax: tax deductions will be made in accordance with Korean law; you can expect your income tax rate to be 3.3% (the tax rate is tied to one�s income level)
� Pension Fund: you must pay into Korea�s national pension fund: 10% of your salary per month (your contribution is 5% and your employer matches that with another 5%; citizens from certain countries may reclaim this pension payment at the end of their contract�currently only Americans and Canadians)
� Medical/Health Insurance: half your monthly fees for Korean National Health Insurance will be paid for by your employer
� Worker�s Compensation: half your monthly fees for this deduction will be paid for by your employer
No longer paid 2 week vacation for home visit? Holidays calendar days instead of working days? Housing subsidy only 300,000 instead of 400,000? Hopefully, this recruiter is full of sh!te! Let's hope the recession is not going to make EPIK be arrogant too. Been hearing about clawbacks from hogwans. Less payouts and more work expectations. Damn this recession, if it's true!!! |
it's still a MUCH better deal than most "teachers" deserve. |
Out if curiosity, isisaredead, what deal do you feel the "teachers" deserve. And why? |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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public school teachers get far too much money for what equates to a part-time job in the west. what with the time-off and literally doing nothing, i think probably half the pay and none of the settlement bonuses and god only knows what else would be appropriate. of all the public school "teachers" i've met here, i'd say that about twelve of them earned their money legitimately with the students education kept firmly in mind. most of them laugh and boast about how little they do, how they get paid a lot of money for doing nothing, and then complain in the same breath about being constantly bored.
it's not our fault - korea made it this way. hopefully this country will wise-up soon, considering the shambles the public school english program is in. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
| public school teachers get far too much money for what equates to a part-time job in the west. |
I wouldn't agree. What you make is what the market is. First, I don't think one should be judging a korean job by western standards. I don't work at a public school but I wouldn't tell someone they are getting too much money for their job. Its their business and the boss has determined that is the pay for that kind of work.
Pay, housing, etc. has changed over the years in public school. Each person has to make their own decision on whether its acceptable or not. For many people its still a good package. For some, its not. Personal choice. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| fair enough. i respect your opinion. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
public school teachers get far too much money for what equates to a part-time job in the west. what with the time-off and literally doing nothing, i think probably half the pay and none of the settlement bonuses and god only knows what else would be appropriate. of all the public school "teachers" i've met here, i'd say that about twelve of them earned their money legitimately with the students education kept firmly in mind. most of them laugh and boast about how little they do, how they get paid a lot of money for doing nothing, and then complain in the same breath about being constantly bored.
it's not our fault - korea made it this way. hopefully this country will wise-up soon, considering the shambles the public school english program is in. |
I don't know about you. But I am here at my school 40 hours a week. If I were going home at noon everyday from a part time job, then part time pay would suffice. I teach a minimum of 22 hours, more than Korean teachers. I also plan my own lessons, make my own power points, and create my own activities. I also get hit with endless camps during my vacations.
when you have been getting paid vacations and 400,000 won rent subsidies and then it changes of course it will be troublesome. when you have something and it's taken away, of course you're going to be pissed off.
although, i occasionally post on here, i actually do work and plan to make my classes exciting for students. i don't just "desk warm" and act as the KT's lazy pronunciation assistant. I actually teach. I have a little thing called experience. Knowing about Korean culture and knowing about it to connect with kids takes some time. A newbie can't possibly understand this. I've known many a certified teacher who came here with a western teaching mindset and failed miserably.
i have nothing but a BBA, but have a few years experience. experience counts in any job. it is one of the most important factors along with on the job training. but when you take things away, experience seeks other opportunities and you are left with inexperience. 22 year newbies welcome to korea. just don't complain and say the native teaching program is a failure if you're not willing to support it.
at any rate, i'm hoping this thing from ATC is in fact a goof. we'll see. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| isisaredead wrote: |
public school teachers get far too much money for what equates to a part-time job in the west. what with the time-off and literally doing nothing, i think probably half the pay and none of the settlement bonuses and god only knows what else would be appropriate. of all the public school "teachers" i've met here, i'd say that about twelve of them earned their money legitimately with the students education kept firmly in mind. most of them laugh and boast about how little they do, how they get paid a lot of money for doing nothing, and then complain in the same breath about being constantly bored.
it's not our fault - korea made it this way. hopefully this country will wise-up soon, considering the shambles the public school english program is in. |
I don't know about you. But I am here at my school 40 hours a week. If I were going home at noon everyday from a part time job, then part time pay would suffice. I teach a minimum of 22 hours, more than Korean teachers. I also plan my own lessons, make my own power points, and create my own activities. I also get hit with endless camps during my vacations.
when you have been getting paid vacations and 400,000 won rent subsidies and then it changes of course it will be troublesome. when you have something and it's taken away, of course you're going to be pissed off.
although, i occasionally post on here, i actually do work and plan to make my classes exciting for students. i don't just "desk warm" and act as the KT's lazy pronunciation assistant. I actually teach. I have a little thing called experience. Knowing about Korean culture and knowing about it to connect with kids takes some time. A newbie can't possibly understand this. I've known many a certified teacher who came here with a western teaching mindset and failed miserably.
i have nothing but a BBA, but have a few years experience. experience counts in any job. it is one of the most important factors along with on the job training. but when you take things away, experience seeks other opportunities and you are left with inexperience. 22 year newbies welcome to korea. just don't complain and say the native teaching program is a failure if you're not willing to support it.
at any rate, i'm hoping this thing from ATC is in fact a goof. we'll see. |
i applaud you for your professionalism and dedication to your job. seriously, you're not the norm.
and this is what i'm talking about. inexperienced chumps that have no desire to be around young people and who are only here for the money. and this country throws fist-fulls of cash at them. it's a worrying trend, and i hope korea gets real soon. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Korea should care more about enthusiasm, attitude, maturity levels more than appearances or pieces of paper. though the pieces of paper are things i'll eventually want to attain. but experience and attitude matter most. did i hear somewhere that japanese companies often want to hire people 30 and up for maturity levels? not saying EPIK should go that far, but maybe 26 and up would be a good minimum requirement. having had a job before and some experience in anything would teach responsibility. never underestimate those "soft skills". |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
| fair enough. i respect your opinion. |
With all due respect, I doubt you do (respect 'serius black's' opinion).
Working standards are generally falling globally. Outsourcing results in a shift from high income high benefit countries, over to standards of the developing world - low income, poor benefits. The last thing we need are people posting nonsense about overpay. Most people I know who have their own money here have scooters and bikes as opposed to cars and SUV's. Times have changed. Most foreigners here are burdened with debts of the type our parents never had to shoulder. Being forced to ply a living in a foreign, and not particularly welcoming country for a job and a scooter is not a lot to ask, given that these people have been shafted from opportunities by the actions of a reckless few.
I would say that the only people who believe public school FT's are overpaid here are those people that don't have to worry about money or the hypocrites that will wonder why their B.Ed isn't good enough to compare with a combined Phd in Ed. and Linguistics to teach English in Asia. Suddenly, they won't feel so clever when the diminishing pool has vanished.
And/Or, they are Frat people or politicians that will never have to worry about money anyway, and will regularly post away their white supremacist gibberish all day and knock people from decent backgrounds for not being able to succeed back home in failed Western countries.
Sad times.. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| pegasus64128 wrote: |
| isisaredead wrote: |
| fair enough. i respect your opinion. |
With all due respect, I doubt you do (respect 'serius black's' opinion).
Working standards are generally falling globally. Outsourcing results in a shift from high income high benefit countries, over to standards of the developing world - low income, poor benefits. The last thing we need are people posting nonsense about overpay. Most people I know who have their own money here have scooters and bikes as opposed to cars and SUV's. Times have changed. Most foreigners here are burdened with debts of the type our parents never had to shoulder. Being forced to ply a living in a foreign, and not particularly welcoming country for a job and a scooter is not a lot to ask, given that these people have been shafted from opportunities by the actions of a reckless few.
I would say that the only people who believe public school FT's are overpaid here are those people that don't have to worry about money or the hypocrites that will wonder why their B.Ed isn't good enough to compare with a combined Phd in Ed. and Linguistics to teach English in Asia. Suddenly, they won't feel so clever when the diminishing pool has vanished.
And/Or, they are Frat people or politicians that will never have to worry about money anyway, and will regularly post away their white supremacist gibberish all day and knock people from decent backgrounds for not being able to succeed back home in failed Western countries.
Sad times.. |
Thank you Pegasus finally someone on this site that is human. |
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chrisinkorea2011
Joined: 16 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Korea should care more about enthusiasm, attitude, maturity levels more than appearances or pieces of paper. though the pieces of paper are things i'll eventually want to attain. but experience and attitude matter most. did i hear somewhere that japanese companies often want to hire people 30 and up for maturity levels? not saying EPIK should go that far, but maybe 26 and up would be a good minimum requirement. having had a job before and some experience in anything would teach responsibility. never underestimate those "soft skills". |
well said. ive heard about the japanese age limit for certain companies as well. They want mature individuals, not someone fresh out of college looking to relax and have fun. I, like weigookin74, am at school 40 hours a week. My thing is that i teach 2nd 5th and 6th graders. Of course we have books that are selected for their level, but honestly these books are FAR too easy for their respective grades AND they expect you to stretch 2 - 4 pages over 40 minutes which is IMPOSSIBLE. I make presi powerpoints, devise games for them, learning activities, and also go out of my way to take to a lot of students everyday. As for interpreting my co-teachers, well i have to correct them every other sentence so its almost a babysitting job lol. I think to each their own, but i do feel that there are some teachers here who DO make a good difference in their students lives. Although ive seen plenty of bad teachers as well, hagwon and PS both who make things dramatically worse too. (il send you a pic of a teacher helping his kids give the middle finger to prove this point) |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| chrisinkorea2011 wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Korea should care more about enthusiasm, attitude, maturity levels more than appearances or pieces of paper. though the pieces of paper are things i'll eventually want to attain. but experience and attitude matter most. did i hear somewhere that japanese companies often want to hire people 30 and up for maturity levels? not saying EPIK should go that far, but maybe 26 and up would be a good minimum requirement. having had a job before and some experience in anything would teach responsibility. never underestimate those "soft skills". |
well said. ive heard about the japanese age limit for certain companies as well. They want mature individuals, not someone fresh out of college looking to relax and have fun. I, like weigookin74, am at school 40 hours a week. My thing is that i teach 2nd 5th and 6th graders. Of course we have books that are selected for their level, but honestly these books are FAR too easy for their respective grades AND they expect you to stretch 2 - 4 pages over 40 minutes which is IMPOSSIBLE. I make presi powerpoints, devise games for them, learning activities, and also go out of my way to take to a lot of students everyday. As for interpreting my co-teachers, well i have to correct them every other sentence so its almost a babysitting job lol. I think to each their own, but i do feel that there are some teachers here who DO make a good difference in their students lives. Although ive seen plenty of bad teachers as well, hagwon and PS both who make things dramatically worse too. (il send you a pic of a teacher helping his kids give the middle finger to prove this point) |
Well said Chris. The more of us who strive, the better our (foriegn) reputations will be. We hope. |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Waygookin74 wrote: |
Knowing about Korean culture and knowing about it to connect with kids takes some time. A newbie can't possibly understand this. I've known many a certified teacher who came here with a western teaching mindset and failed miserably. |
I agree with this. Ridiculing the culture and education system of the country that maintains you is folly. You have to work with it. And people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, lets face it.
| No_hite_pls wrote: |
| pegasus64128 wrote: |
| isisaredead wrote: |
| fair enough. i respect your opinion. |
With all due respect, I doubt you do (respect 'serius black's' opinion).
Working standards are generally falling globally. Outsourcing results in a shift from high income high benefit countries, over to standards of the developing world - low income, poor benefits. The last thing we need are people posting nonsense about overpay. Most people I know who have their own money here have scooters and bikes as opposed to cars and SUV's. Times have changed. Most foreigners here are burdened with debts of the type our parents never had to shoulder. Being forced to ply a living in a foreign, and not particularly welcoming country for a job and a scooter is not a lot to ask, given that these people have been shafted from opportunities by the actions of a reckless few.
I would say that the only people who believe public school FT's are overpaid here are those people that don't have to worry about money or the hypocrites that will wonder why their B.Ed isn't good enough to compare with a combined Phd in Ed. and Linguistics to teach English in Asia. Suddenly, they won't feel so clever when the diminishing pool has vanished.
And/Or, they are Frat people or politicians that will never have to worry about money anyway, and will regularly post away their white supremacist gibberish all day and knock people from decent backgrounds for not being able to succeed back home in failed Western countries.
Sad times.. |
Thank you Pegasus finally someone on this site that is human. |
You're welcome. I like your attitude also.
Last edited by pegasus64128 on Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:54 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| pegasus64128 wrote: |
| No_hite_pls wrote: |
| pegasus64128 wrote: |
| isisaredead wrote: |
| fair enough. i respect your opinion. |
With all due respect, I doubt you do (respect 'serius black's' opinion).
Working standards are generally falling globally. Outsourcing results in a shift from high income high benefit countries, over to standards of the developing world - low income, poor benefits. The last thing we need are people posting nonsense about overpay. Most people I know who have their own money here have scooters and bikes as opposed to cars and SUV's. Times have changed. Most foreigners here are burdened with debts of the type our parents never had to shoulder. Being forced to ply a living in a foreign, and not particularly welcoming country for a job and a scooter is not a lot to ask, given that these people have been shafted from opportunities by the actions of a reckless few.
I would say that the only people who believe public school FT's are overpaid here are those people that don't have to worry about money or the hypocrites that will wonder why their B.Ed isn't good enough to compare with a combined Phd in Ed. and Linguistics to teach English in Asia. Suddenly, they won't feel so clever when the diminishing pool has vanished.
And/Or, they are Frat people or politicians that will never have to worry about money anyway, and will regularly post away their white supremacist gibberish all day and knock people from decent backgrounds for not being able to succeed back home in failed Western countries.
Sad times.. |
Thank you Pegasus finally someone on this site that is human. |
You're welcome. I like your attitude also. |
+1. |
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