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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Also, schools get so many applicants (we had over 300 last year, and we are small) that the non-MAs just get tossed because they need to start cutting somewhere. |
Of the applicants, what percentage lacked an MA? I have an MA and I am wondering if I will be competing against hundreds of other MA holders for a single opening. It is discouraging. You should be thankful, Swampfox, that you got in when you did. After being hired did you start work on your MA? Do you have one now? If not, maybe you should get one in case one day your uni decides not to renew you. |
I got in as a BA. No, I wasn't working on an MA at the time. I finished one while here, though. I have been here for over 6 years. I was interviewed back then, but didn't get the job. I was informed that I was an alternate if someone backed out (they were hiring for 2 open spots). The guy did back out two days later, and I was called.
I am not sure what percentage of applicants lacked an MA out of the 300 who applied recently, but it may be refreshing for some to know that we did hire some non-MA's in the past few years. How does that happen? It happens when the top people that get the job bolt a month after interviews are completed. You'd think they would just call alternates, and sometimes they do in this case, but often they have already found jobs as well. This is where a BA can squeak in and get something at the last minute -- usually because they know someone on staff. Our Korean faculty go on vacation in summer/winter, and have zero interest in gathering for another committee interview while on vacation, so someone can get the nod at the last minute after meeting with a boss or two.
Oh, and actually, there HAVE been cases where they did hire a BA specifically because of the experience they had at... for example... an English village. That was for a different department, though, and the guy was good at interviewing. I like him.
Lastly... and here's the kicker... 3 years ago, they weeded-out candidates by PHOTO first. Poor photos meant the resume hit the trashcan first. Not sure if they did that this time around, or not. The school does seem to have a preference for "attractive" people, but attractive in a professional way is a better way to put it.
Here's another oddity... our school actually hasn't hired an F-visa in years. They seem to prefer BA's. That seems to differ from many other schools. This, as is my theory, has to do with some recent changes in housing for new hires. That's a whole nutha post tho. |
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Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:41 am Post subject: |
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I actually applied when I first came to Korea to see how my CV looked and no replies, I changed my photo and was offered an interview to every job I applied for.
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
Lastly... and here's the kicker... 3 years ago, they weeded-out candidates by PHOTO first. Poor photos meant the resume hit the trashcan first. Not sure if they did that this time around, or not. The school does seem to have a preference for "attractive" people, but attractive in a professional way is a better way to put it.
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
You have to marvel at some of the things these directors get up to. That guy's clearly sending out two messages.
To the students - We don't think you need a teacher with any training or experience in TEFL to teach you. You're not important enough/not paying enough money to justify it
And to the other teachers that already work there and might have MAs/CELTAs - We don't value training or experience at all, we don't think they're necessary to do your job and we can replace you any time we want with someone with neither.
Basically the guy is a director at a university. And he's saying he doesn't see the point of formal qualifications. Not having a go at you I'm With You but he sounds like an idiot |
Just to put this in some perspective, some universities hire instructors, professors and so on. Instructor positions for mandatory freshman classes can very well be handed to non-MA holders. This is not the case everywhere but it is at a few of the universities I know. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:33 am Post subject: |
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I will agree that you have nothing to lose by applying for the position even if you lack a M.A. and/or certificates.
Odds are longer against you but it costs you nothing to apply. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| Instructor positions for mandatory freshman classes can very well be handed to non-MA holders. This is not the case everywhere but it is at a few of the universities I know. |
So freshmen aren't important? They don't need to be taught by someone who knows what they're doing? |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| There's no amount of qualification that can make someone a good teacher. Having said that, a MA in a related discipline increases your chances of both doing the job well, and getting the job to do it well. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Instructor positions for mandatory freshman classes can very well be handed to non-MA holders. This is not the case everywhere but it is at a few of the universities I know. |
So freshmen aren't important? They don't need to be taught by someone who knows what they're doing? |
Sigh...thats NOT what I said. 
Do you always react so defensively? Seriously, have you never heard of different positions within a department? Different duties?
To answer your aggressive and LOADED question: freshmen DO need a good teacher who knows what he or she is doing. Freshman classes however are typically very large and are focused on lower level English. The clas will be made up of many different students and varying levels of proficiency. TYPICALLY, an instructor can deliver such lessons.
All better now?
Oh and when I worked at the University in Busan, I had a freshman class every semester, but the department scheduled more advanced classes for me. Just the way it goes. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Do you always react so defensively? Seriously, have you never heard of different positions within a department? Different duties?
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'Aggressive, loaded, defensive?' Just look at what I wrote and look at what you wrote for a second. Now who is coming across as the most aggressive and defensive? I was having a pop at a director of a university you don't work at in a country you aren't even living in and you are reacting like this is a personal attack. Looks like I touched a bit of nerve there.
By the way what you said makes no sense at all. You said freshmen do need a good instructor then said freshmen classes, however, are very large, made up of many different students and varying levels of proficiency'. The 'however' implying a contrast suggesting that they don't need a good instructor. But these conditions imply that they do need a good instructor to me. So do they need an instructor who knows what they're doing or not? I'm confused because that kind of set up sounds like they badly need someone who knows what they're doing. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Sorry Ed but your one line response was wide open for interpretation:
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| So freshmen aren't important? They don't need to be taught by someone who knows what they're doing? |
My post did not ay freshmen were not important or that they do not need to be taught by a good teacher.
By the way, someone with a BA can be a good teacher so can someone with a MA. Now, division of duties happens in all work environments, I described what happened in my experience.
You did it again in your lastest response, suggestion what I mean when that was not it at all.
No nerve touched my friend all I did was add perspective to your post because I felt it overlooked one aspect of how positions are filled in some Universities.
I do not really care how a particular university staffs its positions, I related what I KNOW based on my experiences working for University and working with other Universities in Korea. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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[/quote]By the way, someone with a BA can be a good teacher so can someone with a MA.[quote]
I've been a CELTA tutor for a many years now and can count on the fingers of no hands the number of people who have walked in off the street with no TEFL experience or training and been able to teach even a half decent lesson. It just doesn't happen. Sure people can have potential but there are always massive flaws in one or more areas of their technique or subject knowledge.
Now either that director guy knows this and doesn't care, as it's only mandatory freshmen classes, or he doesn't know it and in which case shouldn't be in that job. The only other possibility is that person was the only presentable candidate for the job, which seems unlikely in this current market.
Now feel free to disagree with any of what I've said and please don't feel it's a personal attack on anyone |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:29 am Post subject: |
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By the way, someone with a BA can be a good teacher so can someone with a MA.
| Quote: |
I've been a CELTA tutor for a many years now and can count on the fingers of no hands the number of people who have walked in off the street with no TEFL experience or training and been able to teach even a half decent lesson. It just doesn't happen. Sure people can have potential but there are always massive flaws in one or more areas of their technique or subject knowledge.
Now either that director guy knows this and doesn't care, as it's only mandatory freshmen classes, or he doesn't know it and in which case shouldn't be in that job. The only other possibility is that person was the only presentable candidate for the job, which seems unlikely in this current market.
Now feel free to disagree with any of what I've said and please don't feel it's a personal attack on anyone |
Inexperienced or untrained applicants can make good teachers but they do have a sharp learning curve! How they do will depend on if they have the basic ability to teach but more importantly on the efforts they put into learning and improving.
By the way, a BA getting hired to teach freshman classes will not be a fresh-off-the-boat new grad. I have never seen this happen (I am sure it can happen on occasion). Typically this BA holder would have a few years of experience where he COULD have developped teaching skills and learned techniques.
I do fully agree that trained teachers will be better educators than untrained teachers at a far higher ratio. Were I to be hiring teachers, I would take the trained educator everytime. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
I've been a CELTA tutor for a many years now... |
edwardcatflap wrote:
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Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject:
Why can't you guys get it into your thick skulls that just because someone speaks in favour of a particular course it does not mean they have a commercial interest in promoting it. Can you please stop coming out with this everytime the CELTA is discussed. It's getting boring. |
...just can't imagine why some guys can't get it into their thick skulls that just because someone speaks in favour of a particular course it does not mean they have a commercial interest in promoting it.
Oh the shame of it all. |
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iRock
Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| only a ba here and i teach at uni |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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...just can't imagine why some guys can't get it into their thick skulls that just because someone speaks in favour of a particular course it does not mean they have a commercial interest in promoting it.
Oh the shame of it all |
Wow, my first internet stalker. Yes Cosmic I did say that back in 2010 when I was a CELTA tutor and as now I still don't have a commerical interest in promoting it. Believe it or not (as people are always banging on about the cost) running a CELTA doesn't make a lot of money compared to other enterprises. I'm not responsible for drumming up business for the courses either and frankly couldn't care less whether they run or not. I'm contracted to do them when they do but they're pretty full on and I can make more money and have more free time when they don't. I'm not going to tell people it's a crap course so I can have an easier life, however, because I think it's a good one. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| iRock wrote: |
| only a ba here and i teach at uni |
What year were you hired? Because I heard that in the past year, competition for uni jobs has become way more intense. |
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