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| Hagwon director claims that if 1. a teacher is off sick, that time will have to made up & worked on weekends, and 2. if it's consecutive days that time will be deducted from the teacher's vacation time. |
| This is reasonable, and this is how it works at my school. |
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3% |
[ 3 ] |
| This highly unfair, however this is how it also works at my school. |
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6% |
[ 5 ] |
| This highly unfair and it does not happen at my school because I'm afforded sick leave. |
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43% |
[ 34 ] |
| This is highly unfair, I've never heard of this, and I would be offended by such a instruction from my director |
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46% |
[ 37 ] |
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| Total Votes : 79 |
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saint_moi
Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Location: That little place where I'm meant to be.
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 Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
It does seem highly unfair, but it is the norm here. Or if not the norm, extremely common.
I think you are making a common mistake. Your experience with educational institutions so far has been in public education.
Hakwons are businesses, not really schools. The students pay for X number of lessons a month. If the teacher is absent, the students are shorted. This brings up the question of why there are no substitute teachers to fill in. The answer is because teachers cannot work for two schools at the same time. Silly, but the law. |
First of all. I am now absolutely convinced that this forum no doubt has Koreans, be it directors or immigration et al, frequenting here. Yes, sir, why don't you suggest some more 'useful' guidelines concerning what you deem as pc in the EFL business here. You must have crawled up so deep inside some Korean's dark crevice my man.
saintmoi's "did you know" file:
It's better to carry a high voltage taser with u at all times in order to shock some sense into your director when the person in question tries to pull unreasonable manouvres on you concerning your "sickies". |
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jazblanc77
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| panthermodern wrote: |
This question is stupid ...
What does your contract state?
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I couldn't agree more. Know thy contract; know thyself. What's fair is whatever you signed your name to. Whatever terms you agreed to in your contract is what both of you should follow. If he is remaking the contract, that's not cool. However, as a general rule, if what you are talking about, isn't present in your contract at all, you better just accept what he tells you because you have no power to dictate to him in a confrontational negotiation. You should make an effort to learn how the art Korean compromise works. |
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kylehawkins2000
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 6:49 am Post subject: |
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I think it's been clearly stated that the OP's situation concerning sick leave was not printed in his contract.
As far as I'm concerned the director's stance is unfair and probably illegal. check the Ministry of Labor for legislation concerning sick days. I'm pretty sure everyone is afforded a certain number of sick days by law. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Its an unfair practice.
You will have to catch up on work if you miss because you are sick but thats your responsability and can be done at whatever time you choose as long as you respect your work commitements.
Does your contract have sick days included in it? |
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panthermodern
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Taxronto
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 6:10 am Post subject: |
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Dear Panther,
thanks for the apparant concern for my level of intelligence, but rest assured to me it's a perfectly valid question. It's not in my contract, but the clause 'Party B shall observe Party A's school policies and regulations concerning teachers...' is.
I once again extend appreciation for trying to rile me, Mr Panther, in the future rather just offer opinion instead of flame bait. I was simply asking if this kind of absurd instruction has been imposed on others here in the same game as myself. Ok? |
Not OK.
First off, I said your question was stupid, not that you were stupid.
You did not provide enough information in your initial question for anyone to give an intelligent answer.
I felt that your question was stupid for the following reasons addditonal reasons:
1. You asked your question in the form of a poll, which had a title that had absolutely nothing to do with the poll itself.
2. Your "poll" answers were so obviously loaded that you only wanted to agree with you and not express an informed opinion.
I asked what was in your contract, and obviously you signed a contract which was not detailed enough.
Missing work usually means no pay in any job anywhere unless you have an agreement, benifit, insurance, or other sort of arrangement.
If you signed a contract with no sick time and you are sick and you miss work, you really should not expect to be paid.
As UNFAIR as you would might seem you signed a contract which stated:
| Quote: |
| 'Party B shall observe Party A's school policies and regulations concerning teachers...' |
Did you bother to question this clause.
Sure your Boss is being unfair, BUT, hindsight is 20/20 and the vagueness of the contract should have been a warning or at least an encouragement to debate or at least ask what school policeis were before signing.
Remeber, I said your question was stupid.
I also asked what was in your contract.
I think your contract is stupid too.
I would advise that you stop signing stupid contracts and thus eliminating the need to ask stupid questions.
CYA |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 5:58 pm Post subject: sigh |
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I think that many of us English teachers must learn an important word
NO
My friend who worked in Suwon last year used this to make her year here better.
Her first week here her boss told her that she would have to work Saturdays....NO 
Her second week her boss told her that she would have to work at another school 2 days a week after she finished at his hogwan....NO
Her boss told her that the last Friday of every month she had to supply cakes and snacks for her students......NO (she gave treats to her students fairly regularily but was not going to have her boss telling her to spend X amount of money on even more stuff)
I was asked to work a couple of Saturdays so we could all have the entire week of Chusok off....NO (problem  ) Of course I would work a couple Saturdays for an entire week off.
When your director/owner comes up to us with something that is not in the contract...we should just say NO
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| I would advise that you stop signing stupid contracts and thus eliminating the need to ask stupid questions |
I agree we should all stop signing contract with general clauses. There should be several contracts posted on Dave's that highlight good acceptable contracts and also examples of what to avoid that way we could all avoid being burned. |
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phaedrus
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: I'm comin' to get ya.
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it in any way slanderous, or would it be considered harassment, to respond to job postings explaining why their offer is stupid? If we all did this the employers may take notice. |
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saint_moi
Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Location: That little place where I'm meant to be.
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Not OK.
First off, I said your question was stupid, not that you were stupid.
You did not provide enough information in your initial question for anyone to give an intelligent answer.
I felt that your question was stupid for the following reasons addditonal reasons:
1. You asked your question in the form of a poll, which had a title that had absolutely nothing to do with the poll itself.
2. Your "poll" answers were so obviously loaded that you only wanted to agree with you and not express an informed opinion.
I asked what was in your contract, and obviously you signed a contract which was not detailed enough.
Missing work usually means no pay in any job anywhere unless you have an agreement, benifit, insurance, or other sort of arrangement.
If you signed a contract with no sick time and you are sick and you miss work, you really should not expect to be paid.
As UNFAIR as you would might seem you signed a contract which stated:
Quote:
'Party B shall observe Party A's school policies and regulations concerning teachers...'
Did you bother to question this clause.
Sure your Boss is being unfair, BUT, hindsight is 20/20 and the vagueness of the contract should have been a warning or at least an encouragement to debate or at least ask what school policeis were before signing.
Remeber, I said your question was stupid.
I also asked what was in your contract.
I think your contract is stupid too.
I would advise that you stop signing stupid contracts and thus eliminating the need to ask stupid questions.
CYA |
CYA? Never would be too early. Get a life.
Surely you have better things to do than try rub people the wrong way on a forum. Seriously, I couldn't be arsed with the likes of someone trying to nit-pick msgs I post and taking jibes at my expense. Kindly f off. |
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Mankind
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 12:32 am Post subject: |
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1. Stupid question? Yes. Panther already stole my answer. Learn to read.
2. All you want is sympathy Moi. None here. You're the idiot who signed it, so you should be the idoit who lives with it.
3.
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| Surely you have better things to do than try rub people the wrong way on a forum. |
Obviously you don't when you don't here what you want.
4.
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First of all. I am now absolutely convinced that this forum no doubt has Koreans, be it directors or immigration et al, frequenting here. Yes, sir, why don't you suggest some more 'useful' guidelines concerning what you deem as pc in the EFL business here. You must have crawled up so deep inside some Korean's dark crevice my man.
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First of all. I am now absolutely convinced that this forum no doubt has stupid waegooks, be it teachers or soon to be teachers et al, frequenting here. Yes, sir, why don't you ask some more 'useful' guidelines concerning what you deem as paid work in the EFL business here. You must have crawled up so deep inside your own dark crevice my man.
That was hard to do ^, I could barely understand Saint Moi.
I'll never stopped being amazed at people ideas of how they are treated in the world. And at the people that actually get hired over here.
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panthermodern
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Taxronto
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 4:00 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Mankind, Grotto and others;
If the majority of ESL Teachers in Korea:
1. Learned how to say know.
2. Learned to read.
3. Learned to anticipate problem before they happened rather then cry and blame others after it is too late.
I truely belive that things would get better for everyone.
Saint Moi (even your handle is self-serving and self-centered), you screwed up.
Yup, your boss is unreasonable as are you to expect anything but him to be unreasonable. Don't blame me. I don't think I said anything insulting otr critical aside from not taking yourside and expressing my opinion that you sided a stupid contract.
I suggest then next contract you are offered, drop the ego, cut and paste the contract on the board and ask for advise when the advise that you ask for is actually useful.
Take Care.
F you too. |
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captain kirk
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like the grinning music of the devil and won't you sign here.
What's really wrong is that being sick becomes your problem, when it's nobody's problem; becoming sick just happens.
What's the point in having 'sick days' allowance if it comes off the vacation.
It's a vice to squeeze yuh. |
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panthermodern
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Taxronto
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| First of all. I am now absolutely convinced that this forum no doubt has Koreans, be it directors or immigration et al, frequenting here. Yes, sir, why don't you suggest some more 'useful' guidelines concerning what you deem as pc in the EFL business here. You must have crawled up so deep inside some Korean's dark crevice my man |
Nothing is your fault is it ... The KOREANS are ganging up on you ...
You are truely lucky that the Koreans are not that organized ...
Planning is "our" (western) strenght not "theirs" (koreans) ... |
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panthermodern
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Taxronto
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Hey Saint:
BTW: CYA means Cover Your Ass ...
and your right you never will ... |
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saint_moi
Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Location: That little place where I'm meant to be.
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| Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Why clog this thread with your napoleonic-look-at-me smatter. Is it necessary to repeat for the umteenth time that I was asking on this forum if this sort of situation is the norm for others in Korea, and that I was not asking for guys with SPS (add it to your "CYA" acronyms library) Small Penile Syndrome to jeer me to get their kicks.
If you really feel the urge to satisfy your SPS further,then pm. Kindly stop filling the thread with your insecurities. |
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