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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Who the hell cares what the number of Google hits are? Are you serious? How bouts yous plugs dat der fraze inta Daum ina Naver un den talks ta me bout wats whut. Idjut.
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detonate
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Jake_Kim wrote: |
"슬프지 마라."
--> Sorry, but this just sounds weird to a native Korean speaker, even though it will fully convey the speaker's intention. |
^^^^This. But I've found many lower class or poorly educated Koreans are unsure about this kind of thing, even when the grammar is wrong. |
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Jake_Kim
Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
Who the hell cares what the number of Google hits are? Are you serious? How bouts yous plugs dat der fraze inta Daum ina Naver un den talks ta me bout wats whut. Idjut.
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Google, by construct, indiscriminately collects and caches any text that has been written on-line, hence the relative frequency of certain phrase or expression may reflect how often it is used by contemporary speakers of a particular language, or whether it conforms to a popular/correct form in case of idioms. Daum or Naver rarely collects such caches beyond the realm of their own database servers.
Your sarcastic attempt to deform an English sentence neither proves a point nor enlightens learners of Korean language who actually don't have a measure which expression sounds more natural. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
500 Basic Korean Verbs
500 Basic Korean Adjectives
both of them by Bryan Park
The verbs book is red writing on the cover, the adjectives is blue writing.
TJ hit the nail on the head - English adjectives all start with (to be) even if it isn't said.
If you said " I am fat" you have "to be" in the word "am".
In Korean, it's the same thing. 나는 뚱뚱해요. (As for me, I am fat)
The trouble YOU are having (I'm assuming) is when it comes to saying things like "the fat person," situations where you want to describe something as part of the sentence, not necessarily as the whole sentence.
That's when you have to learn the modifiers. The main one to learn would be ㄴ. Using fat, you could say 뚱뚱한사람 to say "fat person." The rough way to say it is drop the 다 and add ㄴ to the end of the word. 하다 words are the easiest as they simply become 한 but some of the others have different forms, depending on what they end with.
I'm not the strongest with adjectives, so if I'm off, someone feel free to correct me, but generally this is how I've done it and I don't get many complaints. There are a few other modifiers as well, but that's the big one. |
Your explanation was spot on (I learned something!) but I just want to make a small addition. Isn't the modifier 는 rather than simply ㄴ? I've always assumed that the -한 and -ㄴ additions were "contractions."
Speaking of modifiers, I recognize -적인 (thanks to stuff like 엽기적인 그녀) but have never really understood how to use it. How does it differ from adding -는, since they seem to serve a similar purpose? Or am I totally off base? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| Speaking of modifiers, I recognize -적인 (thanks to stuff like 엽기적인 그녀) but have never really understood how to use it. How does it differ from adding -는, since they seem to serve a similar purpose? Or am I totally off base? |
적 is a Hanja character (的) whose primary purpose is to turn Hanja words into qualities. For example, the word 자연 is a Hanja word (自然) meaning "nature." Because it's a Hanja word, we can append 적 to it to turn it into a quality, and as such 자연적 means something like "natural." The 인 is just the verb 이다 being used to form a grammatical base for attaching the ~적 quality to whatever it applies to.
적인 differs from 는 in two ways:
1) You attach it to nouns directly (instead of adjectives or verbs).
2) You generally only attach it to Hanja words.
Pretty easy, right? Note that ~적인 adjectives can also be used as ~적으로 adverbs as well (e.g. 자연적으로). It's a very flexible system. |
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ironjohn
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:47 am Post subject: |
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I've never been that confused by the verb vs. adjective question.
What does confuse me is how to translate sentences with cause/effect adjectives such as...
1. The movie was scary.
2. The movie scared me / The movie made me scared.
3. I got scared / I was scared / I am scared
4. He is scary (stay away from him)
Any help or translations from native speakers would be appreciated. |
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joesp
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:34 am Post subject: |
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Parts of speech in Korean are divided according to meaning, function, and form.
1)_ meaning
verbs: expressing an action
adjectives: expressing a state or characteristic of something
2) function
both appear in the predicate of a sentence or in relative clauses (before the noun they modify)
However, adjectives are not used in a command, the conversation about 슬프지 마세요 notwithstanding
3)_ form
verbs: you place it in front of a noun and add 는 to the end, to make an ongoing present tense
adjectives: you place it in front of a noun and add ㄴ to the end
To differentiate adjectives from verbs, the most important distinguishing factor is if you can add 는 to the end or not. Other than that, saying what is a verb and what is an adjective is difficult. For example, 늙다 (old) is a verb, but its opposite of 젊다 (young) is an adjective. As such, it is okay to say 늙는다 (O) but it is incorrect to say 젊는다 (X) but 젊은 사람들 (o). LIkewise, although 맞다 (to suit, be appropriate, to match) is actually a verb in a sentence like '신발이 발에 맞다' (the shoes fit my feet) it is used so much like an adjective that it doesn't sound right to use -는 in this case.
Also note that 있다 and 없다 are classified as adjectives but they can use 는 .
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
That's when you have to learn the modifiers. The main one to learn would be ㄴ. Using fat, you could say 뚱뚱한 사람 to say "fat person." The rough way to say it is drop the 다 and add ㄴ to the end of the word. |
What he is saying, is that 뚱뚱하다 is an adjective ( dictionary may call that a DV for "descriptive verb" [they do not say adjective as that term really applies to English grammar, not Korean grammar. {if you call verbs and adjectives different in Korean, you are ignoring their similarities} ) ... and because 뚱뚱하다 is an adjective you say 뚱뚱한 사람.
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| 하다 words are the easiest as they simply become 한 but some of the others have different forms, depending on what they end with. |
Yes, that is true if you have 뚱뚱하다 but 참석하다 (to attend) is a verb, so you can say 참석하는 X, to mean the person attending.
Dictionaries and lists will tell you. As non-native speakers, we need to memorize the lists. I always have to ask myself if the verb is really a verb or if it is an adjective so that I can now whether to use 는 or ㄴ.
You may be thinking:
but, if 하다 is a verb, why can I say 내가 한 것 for what I did? (since it is a verb, shouldn't this be 하는 것?)
the answer is that for verbs, 는 is present tense, and ㄴ is past tense. However, for adjectives, ㄴ is just grammitically required and does not imply tense. Do I have to explain how to show tense with an adjective?? |
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joesp
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
500 Basic Korean Verbs
500 Basic Korean Adjectives
both of them by Bryan Park |
I never did understand these books. Conjugations in Korean is not like conjugating in a romance language. In a romance language, you actually have verbs conjugated differently for different tenses with different helping verbs, regular and irregular verbs, and tons of idiosyncrasies for verbs with 'simply unique conjugations' (think of avoir and �tre in French).
Korea does not have different conjugations for different tenses, nor does it have 'simply unique conjugations'.
Whereas French may have 12 verb tenses (and is confusing for that reason) Korean has 3 conjugations but there are over a thousand endings that can be thrown onto the verb stem using one of the 3 ways of combining the ending with the stem. In other words, studying conjugation is not studying tense, it is studying how to combine the stem with the novel concept of a so-called verb ending.
If VST means verbs stem, you have:
(1) VST + ending
(2)VST + 어/아 + verb ending
(3)VST+ 으 + ending
(4) VST + 이 (e.g. 이나마) (??)
so if you type 먹다 (to eat) into http://dongsa.net/?infinitive=%EB%A8%B9%EB%8B%A4 it will give you a long list, but they all are either #1, #2 or #3.
If anything, all that Korea needs is a book having an explanation with examples and exercises of those, and then an explanation and loads of exercises for the 7 irregular verb types.
There are more examples on my website, http://ezcorean.com/korean_grammar/How_to_conjugate_verbs |
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