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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:06 am Post subject: |
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I've asked Koreans and most say that you can get a permit to sell stuff from a cart or truck but that a LOT of those vendors just don't bother with it because it's simple enough to conduct business without a permit and the authorities don't consider it a priority for enforcing. Apparently people without a permit do get shut down or fined from time to time.
The sheer number of street vendors, whether with carts, trucks, or simply a table setup on the sidewalk, suggests that either permits are simple to get or it's easy enough to do business without a permit. |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Two thoughts come up with doing a food cart.
One location. Ya if you did a food cart in a little out of the way area of Itaewon, it might be ignored. But if you do it a central place, you will compete with Korean stall and or store. Who will likely find if you are legal and then proceed to make your life hard.
Two never mind the police. It is the gangsters who might be around check for permission. I remember the news from a few years ago. Some trendy stores did not like the adjummas parking there food carts in front of their stores ruining the image. So they hired some goons to rough some of them. Running them off. So where you are might be somebody else's turf. |
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fosterman
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
I've asked Koreans and most say that you can get a permit to sell stuff from a cart or truck but that a LOT of those vendors just don't bother with it because it's simple enough to conduct business without a permit and the authorities don't consider it a priority for enforcing. Apparently people without a permit do get shut down or fined from time to time.
The sheer number of street vendors, whether with carts, trucks, or simply a table setup on the sidewalk, suggests that either permits are simple to get or it's easy enough to do business without a permit. |
food carts with permits are allowed in certain zones only, they will be government designed boxes with numbers on them. but you can't just apply easily for a permit, as the government doesn't give out new ones in already established zones, you have to buy the previous owners license.
new cities where they are are trying to build culinary streets it's possible.
I have looked into this.
because the Korean government doesn't have a welfare system they turn a blind eye to it. everything now and then they will come around and get some tax money or told to push off,
and most open after 8pm when the people are off duty. it's not the polices job to control them, it's the seoul city office. they have to instruct the police to go do a crack down. and that is not happening every night.
maybe once a year, like the prostitution crack downs.
but getting a legal, health inspected, food truck vendors permit. I don't know. and regarding realestate in kangnam, outside the station or hongdae corner etc. and setting up a permanent tent for the night. I think gangstas have that turf covered. those pojangmachas make over 20 million a month profit!
cash money like that is guarded with force.
the arabs selling kebabs in the back street , the korean mafia don't care about that, because it's mostly foreigners eating that stuff.and they are just making a living. it's when another korean drives in and tries to take the interection outside tinpan when things will get violent., |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| fosterman wrote: |
the arabs selling kebabs in the back street , the korean mafia don't care about that, because it's mostly foreigners eating that stuff.and they are just making a living. it's when another korean drives in and tries to take the interection outside tinpan when things will get violent., |
I'm sure that the foreigners are also paying protection money. I don't think that the mafia does what they do out of a sense of social solidarity. I'm sure they know who can make the most profit and hence pay more for protection.
So only the government approved food carts can get permits? The trucks that are roasting chickens or cooking other stuff, none of those have a permit? I'm not saying that they do, i'm just curious about whether or not they CAN operate legally. |
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fosterman
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| fosterman wrote: |
the arabs selling kebabs in the back street , the korean mafia don't care about that, because it's mostly foreigners eating that stuff.and they are just making a living. it's when another korean drives in and tries to take the interection outside tinpan when things will get violent., |
I'm sure that the foreigners are also paying protection money. I don't think that the mafia does what they do out of a sense of social solidarity. I'm sure they know who can make the most profit and hence pay more for protection.
So only the government approved food carts can get permits? The trucks that are roasting chickens or cooking other stuff, none of those have a permit? I'm not saying that they do, i'm just curious about whether or not they CAN operate legally. |
I have never seen a permit on a chicken truck, I buy chicken often, next time you buy a chicken, look to see if you can see a permit hanging on the truck. All those indians selling Kebabs in Itaewon after 10pm, they don't have permits. have you seen the state of some of those cars, how would they pass health inspection?
What I remember hearing , is the only food vendors who are "legal" are the ones with the designed boxes with the numbers on them, you can see them in Myeong dong, and jongro in snack alley.
anyway maybe there are ways to do it legally, I am not sure.
if you want to know more, you can search Naver under the title
노점
a nojeom is the official name for street vendor carts
a 노점상 is a street vendor.
A pojangmacha is a tent which usually sells alcohol and food.
do these places have legal liqueur licenses? you tell me. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I've seen expats open small bistros in Haebangchon or Itaewon or other places. I wonder how much money they earn. |
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fosterman
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
| I've seen expats open small bistros in Haebangchon or Itaewon or other places. I wonder how much money they earn. |
more than teaching on a F2 visa? maybe the same? maybe not even close but how many hours and stress do they have for it also a lot of work, but if you have passion for it, then great.
how much money they make all depends on how busy they are obviously.
craftworks have a lot of partners, 5 I think? so who knows how much they are putting in their pockets after they divide it 5 ways. it's probably more of a hobby for them than a straight up business. the partners probably have other jobs too. I don't know.
other restaurants or bars owned by foreigners, well some make great money
sam ryans, 3 alley, doing very well judging by the amount of patrons.
but many small bars and restaurants are struggling. the hospitality business has such a high turn over, failure rate most are barely staying a float or most have just failed.
look at Edward kwon, Villa Sortinos to name a couple. they started off huge, couldn't get a reservation, kwons has shut down, and villa is on its last legs, only manages to stay a float because the owner owns the building. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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I think Villa Sortinos was doomed since clubbing in Itaewon is mostly a big risk. B1 is doing nicely but I think that also has to do with location and the like.
Never hit Kwon's place but there are plenty of other culinary hotspots in Itaewon. |
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fosterman
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
I think Villa Sortinos was doomed since clubbing in Itaewon is mostly a big risk. B1 is doing nicely but I think that also has to do with location and the like.
Never hit Kwon's place but there are plenty of other culinary hotspots in Itaewon. |
sure, the rents are rising fast in Itaewon now too, with the huge influx of Koreans now the landlords have raised the rent.
you know b1 use to be cheap rent down there, 2 million a month when they first got in there, fair enough too, I mean basement, small place who is gonna rent that.,
I think the rent now is 10 million LOL
obviously the landlord wants them gone. or the landlord just wants part of that action.
so when you consider the rents, the staff, food costs, taxes, I mean only a few will succeed and be making real good money., the bars/restaurants where everyone goes to. you know the
geckos, seoulpub, 3ally, helios, samryans,b1, naked, la cigale, smokey saloon,cafe bene, starbucks, and a few others. but what is that? .. like 10% of the hospo businesses in town?
all the "famous" places.
the rest are probably just making a living or barely that. I use to be in the restaurant business a long time.
and I can tell you, a few quiet nights a week is the difference between struggling and barely making rent. such a risky business. most people rely on the weekends to make their money and sometimes that's just not enough. and most restaurants in the area have no lunch time business.
so the odds are really against you in Itaewon. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| fosterman wrote: |
I have never seen a permit on a chicken truck, I buy chicken often, next time you buy a chicken, look to see if you can see a permit hanging on the truck. All those indians selling Kebabs in Itaewon after 10pm, they don't have permits. have you seen the state of some of those cars, how would they pass health inspection?
What I remember hearing , is the only food vendors who are "legal" are the ones with the designed boxes with the numbers on them, you can see them in Myeong dong, and jongro in snack alley.
anyway maybe there are ways to do it legally, I am not sure.
if you want to know more, you can search Naver under the title
노점
a nojeom is the official name for street vendor carts
a 노점상 is a street vendor.
A pojangmacha is a tent which usually sells alcohol and food.
do these places have legal liqueur licenses? you tell me. |
I've often wondered about those alcohol tents. They are quite common though. If it was illegal, you'd think that they'd get shut down more often than simple food vendors. In addition to whatever taxes or fees a food vendor would need to be paying, surely there would be even more fees to sell alcohol. But who knows, maybe it's just that no one cares because it's a traditional thing. Maybe it's just not worth enforcing when there are bigger fish to fry for other crimes.
About the chicken trucks, I have to admit I can't recall having seen a certificate or permit displayed somewhere, but until now I've never really been interested enough to look. I'm going to check the next time I see them.
Still, whether vendors pay the government for a permit, or whether they pay the mafia run protection rackets, it must still be profitable enough to sell street food because enough people do it. |
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fosterman
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
it must still be profitable enough to sell street food because enough people do it. |
I think the wholesale price for a chicken is 2.600won these guys usually sell 2 for 10.000 or even I have seen 3 for 12.000 but the prices are usually
2 for 10 or 2 for 12 so if they are paying 5000won for the wholesale price plus they stuff it with rice, garlic, pay for gas, foil, they are probably making 4 to 5 bucks profit per order.
these guys are doing this to survive only. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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I heard the CEO of Seokbong Toast give a lecture about how he got started.
The man sold the egg sandwiches "toast" from a truck when he was desperate to support his family. At first, he didn't do well and the gangsters and police would harrass him everyday. He said he'd get up in the morning at 4am to prepare and everyday he'd pray, not to get customers, but for the gangsters and police to not harrass him.
Then he started changing his image. He actually made a uniform to make his operation more professional. He changed his ingredients to make it healthier. Suddenly, he started getting more and more customers.
He said once he got a lot of customers, the gangsters and police left him alone. The main reason was the long line of customers. Its hard for the gangsters to intimidate/harrass with 20-30 people in line waiting to be served.
He started the business with only 2 million won in his bank account. Had a wife and kids to support.
Now he makes over $1 million US dollars a year.
http://youtu.be/fT7py7RaLUk |
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jdog2050
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
I heard the CEO of Seokbong Toast give a lecture about how he got started.
The man sold the egg sandwiches "toast" from a truck when he was desperate to support his family. At first, he didn't do well and the gangsters and police would harrass him everyday. He said he'd get up in the morning at 4am to prepare and everyday he'd pray, not to get customers, but for the gangsters and police to not harrass him.
Then he started changing his image. He actually made a uniform to make his operation more professional. He changed his ingredients to make it healthier. Suddenly, he started getting more and more customers.
He said once he got a lot of customers, the gangsters and police left him alone. The main reason was the long line of customers. Its hard for the gangsters to intimidate/harrass with 20-30 people in line waiting to be served.
He started the business with only 2 million won in his bank account. Had a wife and kids to support.
Now he makes over $1 million US dollars a year.
http://youtu.be/fT7py7RaLUk |
Really great story. Thanks for sharing! It stuff like this that makes me feel like Korea seriously needs a libertarian party. Now, I'm not a libertarian myself, but it seems like Korea is stuck in an even worse rut than American politics with one party that is an incompetent nanny state and the other that wants Chinese style State-Capitalism. Worst of both worlds really. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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I guess having your back to the wall in having to support yourself and your family can result in a happy ending. The thing is, I've said time and time again that running your own business, esp. in the hospitality industry, isn't just a job, it's YOUR LIFE.
I just finished reading "My Korean Deli" written by an American guy whose Korean-American wife demanded that they open a deli in New York. OK book but the more interesting points he made was how friggin' tough it is to open a deli in New York given the insane rents, never-ending competition, threat of crime, crazy hours, and the government's tendency to try to fine or punish you every which way it can, especially in down times. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
| I just finished reading "My Korean Deli" written by an American guy whose Korean-American wife demanded that they open a deli in New York. |
What's a Korean deli? Like a butcher shop or like what I think of as a NY deli (pastrami on rye, bagels, that kind of thing)? |
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