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sallymonster
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Location: Seattle area
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 Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| I know plenty of social science majors who are doing just fine. The key is to not study social sciences at a crappy school. |
It's super important for a liberal arts major to be well-connected. It's all about who you know. . .
If you're not well-connected, from what I can tell the key is work for free (intern) until either you become well-connected or get enough experience in a certain field to become employable in an "entry"-level paying job.
It's an uphill climb if you're from a working class background like I am. . . though I could always become a carpenter like my father, I suppose. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| sallymonster wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| I know plenty of social science majors who are doing just fine. The key is to not study social sciences at a crappy school. |
It's super important for a liberal arts major to be well-connected. It's all about who you know. . .
If you're not well-connected, from what I can tell the key is work for free (intern) until either you become well-connected or get enough experience in a certain field to become employable in an "entry"-level paying job.
It's an uphill climb if you're from a working class background like I am. . . though I could always become a carpenter like my father, I suppose. |
True, but half the reason you go to a good school is to develop those connections. It's not as if you're doomed to only circulate with people your parents know. |
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:13 am Post subject: |
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You know what? I agree with the sentiments of this thread.
I'm thinking of tipping off all those desperate grads on the prospects.ac.uk website.  |
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asdfghjkl
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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I came to Korea after I graduated in 2008 and decided to try out 'Merica for a change in September. I moved to Pittsburgh and found a job at a commercial property management company within two weeks through a temp agency. I guess I was underemployed for a few months, but they hired me permanently and promoted me pretty quickly because I am good at computers and don't write like an eight year old. It's not that bad everywhere in the US, and my useless social sciences degree did garner me some respect; most Americans haven't gone to or never finished college.
The pay was a little bit less than in Korea but enough that I could save a little and live reasonably well. I liked teaching EFL more though, so I'm coming back to Korea. Working in an office was such a drag. I don't always relate to Koreans, but I didn't relate well to the people I worked with in America, either. Maybe next time, I'll become an ice road trucker, move to a third country, or go to graduate school. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| Veritable legions of social science graduates are churned out by Universities each year. It is not like the market needs a thousand Historians per year.... |
Because of course the only point of a university degree is to train someone to do a future job. People who study history at university do so because they all want to be historians.  |
Good lord where did I say the only point of a University was to train someone for a job? You sure like to draw conclusions!!
The historian mention was just an example for god's sake so you can get off your horse now.....
Just in case however...
People go to University for a variety of reasons: to train for a specific job, to expand their intellectual horizons, to prepare for something else, to learn new things....
Still, social science grads tend to be a flock that has a harder time finding work once they graduate (I know I AM A SOCIAL SCIENCE GRAD). They DO have SOME transferable skills but for many it is near impossible to find work in their own field.
I encourage anyone to study more, it is never a waste, but a University degree is not a ticket to a job. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Good lord where did I say the only point of a University was to train someone for a job? You sure like to draw conclusions!! |
You said 'the market' doesn't need a thousand historians every year. I assumed you were talking about the job market. Thus your one point was about history degrees not being useful for getting jobs. You did not mention any other reasons for doing a history degree. I therefore understood that you thought getting a job is the only reason for doing a degree. This belief is quite widely held and it was therefore not unreasonable for me to conclude you hold it. Why make the point about the market not needing 1000 historians at all if getting a job is only one of many reasons why people do degrees? You then completely backtracked, mentioned a whole load of other reasons for doing a degree you didn't mention before and had a go at me for 'getting on my high horse.' Your methods of discourse are really pretty poor. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Veritable legions of social science graduates are churned out by Universities each year. It is not like the market needs a thousand Historians per year.... |
Because of course the only point of a university degree is to train someone to do a future job. People who study history at university do so because they all want to be historians. |
Good lord where did I say the only point of a University was to train someone for a job? You sure like to draw conclusions!!
The historian mention was just an example for god's sake so you can get off your horse now.....
Just in case however...
People go to University for a variety of reasons: to train for a specific job, to expand their intellectual horizons, to prepare for something else, to learn new things....
Still, social science grads tend to be a flock that has a harder time finding work once they graduate (I know I AM A SOCIAL SCIENCE GRAD). They DO have SOME transferable skills but for many it is near impossible to find work in their own field.
I encourage anyone to study more, it is never a waste, but a University degree is not a ticket to a job. |
How many even want to? I don't know too many anthro kids whom actually want to be anthropologists. I'm a social science grad, but I think people generally just pick what they're interested in and don't concern themselves too much with finding a discipline they'd like to be involved with I the long-term. God knows, I have very little desire to work in politics after giving it a quick go. |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:14 am Post subject: |
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I gave my Chinese x-gf the same advice as my younger brother: Study your passion, but forget the course content - that's just to get the piece of paper. You need to start specializing in a field of study as early as possible. You need to go above and beyond the scope of the course, and find ways to apply the knowledge you learn all the time. Internships are good of course, but it's more than that. It's seeing through the dumb-ass notes people learn off to get a grade. What does it all mean? How is it used in the real world? How can I make a personal contribution or application of this in the real world that catches peoples attention/ If you have to go to China or India to ply your trade (as is often the case these days) then why not go? An extra language is always good. An employer will always add extra value to a candidate who speaks another language such as English, Spanish, Mandarin, Russian, Portuguese, German, French or Italian. Anything less than one of the above is less important but could still be looked upon favorably, regardless of whether the job actually requires it. It can come in useful. Hobbies and skills outside of work matter.
Having said that, the most successful guy I know of back home bullshit his ass off to get his first proper job, and it opened up all kinds of opportunities. He was able to use it to get extra certification and experience that snowballed other opportunities. He got a first class degree and decided he was going to take a good job and not be given it. I don't blame him. I was much more naive, always telling the truth on r�sum�s. I wasn't as confident about my ability to slide into any position. I did ok career wise, but never so good that it made me think twice about coming over to Korea. I was always going to go to Asia. If only I knew...  |
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sallymonster
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Location: Seattle area
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Veritable legions of social science graduates are churned out by Universities each year. It is not like the market needs a thousand Historians per year.... |
Because of course the only point of a university degree is to train someone to do a future job. People who study history at university do so because they all want to be historians. |
Good lord where did I say the only point of a University was to train someone for a job? You sure like to draw conclusions!!
The historian mention was just an example for god's sake so you can get off your horse now.....
Just in case however...
People go to University for a variety of reasons: to train for a specific job, to expand their intellectual horizons, to prepare for something else, to learn new things....
Still, social science grads tend to be a flock that has a harder time finding work once they graduate (I know I AM A SOCIAL SCIENCE GRAD). They DO have SOME transferable skills but for many it is near impossible to find work in their own field.
I encourage anyone to study more, it is never a waste, but a University degree is not a ticket to a job. |
How many even want to? I don't know too many anthro kids whom actually want to be anthropologists. I'm a social science grad, but I think people generally just pick what they're interested in and don't concern themselves too much with finding a discipline they'd like to be involved with I the long-term. God knows, I have very little desire to work in politics after giving it a quick go. |
I agree with this. I majored in history, and while I'm still very interested in this subject, I don't want to make a career out of it. In fact, I never intended to become a historian. Perhaps that was my mistake, perhaps I should've figured out my career choice sooner and majored in that rather than history.
Then again, I recently looked into getting a paralegal certificate, only to discover through internet research that this field is very difficult to get into, even after obtaining a degree/certificate and an internship. There are very few entry-level positions for paralegals and legal secretaries, at least in the area where I'm from.
I think much of the problem is that there are plenty of laid-off middle-aged and older workers who have a lot more experience and qualifications than the average younger worker. Also, many baby boomers and older workers had their savings wiped out in the recession, so they can't retire comfortably and be replaced by younger people. Why would an employer want to pay both a wage/salary plus training costs for a risky, inexperienced younger worker, when they can easily get a less risky, more experienced worker than doesn't require much training? Especially when so many middle- and upper-class young workers are lining up to work for free. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Veritable legions of social science graduates are churned out by Universities each year. It is not like the market needs a thousand Historians per year.... |
Because of course the only point of a university degree is to train someone to do a future job. People who study history at university do so because they all want to be historians. |
Good lord where did I say the only point of a University was to train someone for a job? You sure like to draw conclusions!!
The historian mention was just an example for god's sake so you can get off your horse now.....
Just in case however...
People go to University for a variety of reasons: to train for a specific job, to expand their intellectual horizons, to prepare for something else, to learn new things....
Still, social science grads tend to be a flock that has a harder time finding work once they graduate (I know I AM A SOCIAL SCIENCE GRAD). They DO have SOME transferable skills but for many it is near impossible to find work in their own field.
I encourage anyone to study more, it is never a waste, but a University degree is not a ticket to a job. |
How many even want to? I don't know too many anthro kids whom actually want to be anthropologists. I'm a social science grad, but I think people generally just pick what they're interested in and don't concern themselves too much with finding a discipline they'd like to be involved with I the long-term. God knows, I have very little desire to work in politics after giving it a quick go. |
That is very true. Lots of social science grads just chose a field they found interesting, regardless of employment prospects. Which is basically what I was saying about employment upon graduation.
It would typically take longer to find work because the skill set is more general than specific when compared to other degrees that are say more in-line with the employment field.
Still, anyone is free to study what they want and it is true employability is not something that comes up at the top the list for many new University students! |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Lazio wrote: |
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One in seven people in their 20s earn less than W1 million a month, according to National Health Insurance data.
Out of 2.4 million employed people in their 20s, 15 percent or 360,000 people -- 150,000 men and 210,000 women -- earn less than W1 million (US$1=W1,154).
Most of them are employed part-time or on fixed-term contracts.
Only 220,000 people in the age group earn W2 million or more per month. Since there are 1.75 million four-year university graduates in the group, this means only one in eight 20-somethings with university degree has a job that pays a decent income. |
It also must be stated that most people here start to work at a regular salary job when they are 25-27 years old. So that means about 3-4 years in their �twenties� which makes that a starter salary.
And let�s not forget about the facts that a large portion of graduates are holding a completely useless degree and/or are completely clueless about what they studied. |
Yeah, but you Americans had was a traditionally low unemployment rate. Meaning desperation, on the employers part, meant that anyone could get a job. If any degree holder was willing to start at the bottom and work their way up and work hard, then it didn't matter which section of basketweaving your degree was in. But now even some skilled people can't find a job.
Much as I hate to say it, when I look at America, it seems that when Republicans are in power or sharing it, the economy does well or recovers quickly. Reagan, Clinton and Republican Congress, and even Bush. I'm not a booster one way or the other, but the trends do seem to indicate something. Carter and Obama, bad economy.
Americans, do us English teachers a favor, vote that guy out this fall, so the economy can begin to recover. Will improve working conditions here if there are less English teachers on this side. Ha ha. |
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sallymonster
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Location: Seattle area
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
Much as I hate to say it, when I look at America, it seems that when Republicans are in power or sharing it, the economy does well or recovers quickly. Reagan, Clinton and Republican Congress, and even Bush. I'm not a booster one way or the other, but the trends do seem to indicate something. Carter and Obama, bad economy.
Americans, do us English teachers a favor, vote that guy out this fall, so the economy can begin to recover. Will improve working conditions here if there are less English teachers on this side. Ha ha. |
Aren't the Republicans in control of the House right now? Meaning that power is being shared?
And wasn't George W. Bush still the president when the economy collapsed in 2008?
Not saying that Obama is doing some sort of perfect or amazing job handling the economy (honestly, I'm disillusioned with both political parties), just pointing out a couple of flaws in your logic. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| sallymonster wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
Much as I hate to say it, when I look at America, it seems that when Republicans are in power or sharing it, the economy does well or recovers quickly. Reagan, Clinton and Republican Congress, and even Bush. I'm not a booster one way or the other, but the trends do seem to indicate something. Carter and Obama, bad economy.
Americans, do us English teachers a favor, vote that guy out this fall, so the economy can begin to recover. Will improve working conditions here if there are less English teachers on this side. Ha ha. |
Aren't the Republicans in control of the House right now? Meaning that power is being shared?
And wasn't George W. Bush still the president when the economy collapsed in 2008?
Not saying that Obama is doing some sort of perfect or amazing job handling the economy (honestly, I'm disillusioned with both political parties), just pointing out a couple of flaws in your logic. |
Seconded. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| sallymonster wrote: |
| I agree with this. I majored in history, and while I'm still very interested in this subject, I don't want to make a career out of it. In fact, I never intended to become a historian. Perhaps that was my mistake, perhaps I should've figured out my career choice sooner and majored in that rather than history. |
Yeah it really needs to be stressed to people intending to go to university that they have got to look at the bigger picture. I majored in English Lit. with a massive lean towards creative writing, mainly because I wanted to challenge myself.
It was pretty damn useless in the short term. I did get on track with my intended career path (which came to me after graduating) but getting my foot in the door was pure dumb luck and knowing the right person at the right time.
Of course, the catch 22 is that universities have an obvious interest in keeping the students rolling in year after year. Guidance counselors and concerned teachers can play a part in steering students the right way, as can parents, but kids just jump in and study whatever and try to work it out later.
Undergrad degrees for fresh out of high school kids really should be viewed primarily as a tool for securing work, or at least be at the top of the list of reasons. Community college should lose the stigma that has been attached to it. I fully believe that students should be able to spend 6-8 years switching majors, but doing it at the more expensive universities should not be passively encouraged. Goof off and experiment at a community college, and when something stands out and the student has been counseled about the job and professional development opportunities typically associated with whatever field they take interest in, go ahead and run off to a big school and get serious. For the average 20 something student who is looking to strike out on his or her own, save the personal interest studies for post-grad and lock in something productive and meaningful to yourself.
Some may see it as too heavy-handed, but it's that or have lots of social science and English lit. majors facing a very steep initial battle to get gainfully employed. |
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redaxe
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| Sad truth is, there is a glut of Americans with bachelor's degrees in the job market now. The supply of them far exceeds the demand, and as a result, a lot of them are now doing jobs that don't require a college degree anyway, like server or barista. So, sadly, they're displacing other workers who don't have college degrees. |
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