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Shenanigans17
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Location: Jeju
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 Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
To clarify some comments from above:
It is perfectly legal for your boss to deduct your utility payments from your monthly pay as long as you have agreed to it either by including it in your contract directly or as a separate agreement later.
However, the OP is not having his own bills deducted but is being forced to pay for part of the school's utility bills. This is a rip off, and stupid since the school is saving in the area of 400k won rent per month plus avoiding the need for a large deposit on the apartment they should be providing. If the OP was allowed his own door lock and given free utilities, he might have accepted or at least quietly tolerated this arrangement.
As to mixed-use buildings: some are legal and some are not. There are buildings that are almost totally restricted to residential use, buildings where residential use is prohibited and buildings that allow residential use in some parts, and businesses, schools etc in other parts - even on the same floor. It is possible to have a legal residence across the hall from a legal hogwan in some locations. We cannot guess. However, the OP could check with the local city hall. It really doesn't matter - the OP needs to decide his course of action.
This is another case where the OP needs to stand up for himself. I would insist on getting housing as promised in the contract and demand to have the utility money refunded. Don't waste time on what is legal etc, insist on what you've been promised and are not getting. Be strong, polite, firm and give a reasonable but firm time deadline - it takes time to find a place and move.
For example: "I was promised my own housing in my contract. I know it is costly and takes some time, but I cannot live and work under these conditions. I will be happy to help you look for a suitable place, but if I don't have my own place to live in by May 20th, I'm sorry, but I will not be able to teach here on the 21st. I can't live like this anymore, and I can't work while living under these conditions."
In addition, I would install my own door lock immediately and keep the key for my own room. I wouldn't wait and I wouldn't ask first. But that's just me. When asked, I would say that I need that or I can't live here another minute.
Living in the school ...
Changing diapers ...
Just say "no!" |
Update on this whole situation. Thanks for all the advice so far guys
I called city hall and was transferred to a man that spoke great English in the zoning department. He said my building is not zoned for residential and I can't live there, more so I can't be told that is my only living option provided by my employer since it was illegal to begin with. My contract says I will be provided a "rent free studio apartment". But the converted classroom isn't even zoned for living, so that hardly makes it an apartment.
When I explained my entire situation to the man at the zoning office, he said since it is illegal to live there, it is also illegal to withhold or force me to pay for any utilities from that building, even if it was my usage, again, because living there is not okay.
I had a conversation with my director. Here is the jist of what she said,
-It is not a "big deal" to live there, even if it is illegal
-The utility money is not coming back to me because some of it is indeed my usage
-She can't afford to find me a new real apartment or give me a housing allowance so I am not allowed to move unless it is by my own means and money.
-The current illegal living space will remain unlocked if she wants it to be
-There are other issues regarding pay I'm working on with her too, getting paid late, not seeing my bills for my deductions, etc.
Okay here's the deal. I think she will keep trying to cheat me out of money and living properly. I don't feel I am in danger of being fired as I am the only foreign teacher and she has made zero threats to my job so far.
I want to remain in my area where I work now, at a reputable Hagwon ideally but teacher job in general is cool.
I don't want to lose my plane ticket, if I quit before 6 months I have to pay her back, probably even though she has already broken the contract in her own ways. I might have too, but losing $1,000 when she already broke the contract and won't give me a livable place seems unreasonable.
So, advice? I was thinking since I already called the pension office(she's not paying into the pension), health insurance, tax office, city hall, etc. and found out my numbers and percentages that she listed and made deductions for don't line up with what they all told me she would wise up and correct everything. She fought me and claimed I must have gotten bad information or not understood their English.
Should I get ready to go to the labor board? Is there another less drastic step to take or has this gone to far? Is the contract void once it is clearly broken or once she makes the living and working conditions un-tolerable for the employee?
To avoid any issues with housing for now I told her I'd be living with my boyfriend until housing is fixed, and so she can't charge me utilities anymore.
Any advice is greatly appreciated, I'm just looking to take the route where I don't get screwed out of too much money and I get to switch to another job nicely and without and visa issues.
Thank you guys, hopefully this will all work out well  |
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Wildbore
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:51 am Post subject: |
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Obviously you would not be responsible for any airfare.
If you were to sue her, she would be responsible for your ticket home. She broke the contract first, she is responsible for your relocation. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Shenanigans17 wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
To clarify some comments from above:
It is perfectly legal for your boss to deduct your utility payments from your monthly pay as long as you have agreed to it either by including it in your contract directly or as a separate agreement later.
However, the OP is not having his own bills deducted but is being forced to pay for part of the school's utility bills. This is a rip off, and stupid since the school is saving in the area of 400k won rent per month plus avoiding the need for a large deposit on the apartment they should be providing. If the OP was allowed his own door lock and given free utilities, he might have accepted or at least quietly tolerated this arrangement.
As to mixed-use buildings: some are legal and some are not. There are buildings that are almost totally restricted to residential use, buildings where residential use is prohibited and buildings that allow residential use in some parts, and businesses, schools etc in other parts - even on the same floor. It is possible to have a legal residence across the hall from a legal hogwan in some locations. We cannot guess. However, the OP could check with the local city hall. It really doesn't matter - the OP needs to decide his course of action.
This is another case where the OP needs to stand up for himself. I would insist on getting housing as promised in the contract and demand to have the utility money refunded. Don't waste time on what is legal etc, insist on what you've been promised and are not getting. Be strong, polite, firm and give a reasonable but firm time deadline - it takes time to find a place and move.
For example: "I was promised my own housing in my contract. I know it is costly and takes some time, but I cannot live and work under these conditions. I will be happy to help you look for a suitable place, but if I don't have my own place to live in by May 20th, I'm sorry, but I will not be able to teach here on the 21st. I can't live like this anymore, and I can't work while living under these conditions."
In addition, I would install my own door lock immediately and keep the key for my own room. I wouldn't wait and I wouldn't ask first. But that's just me. When asked, I would say that I need that or I can't live here another minute.
Living in the school ...
Changing diapers ...
Just say "no!" |
Update on this whole situation. Thanks for all the advice so far guys
I called city hall and was transferred to a man that spoke great English in the zoning department. He said my building is not zoned for residential and I can't live there, more so I can't be told that is my only living option provided by my employer since it was illegal to begin with. My contract says I will be provided a "rent free studio apartment". But the converted classroom isn't even zoned for living, so that hardly makes it an apartment.
When I explained my entire situation to the man at the zoning office, he said since it is illegal to live there, it is also illegal to withhold or force me to pay for any utilities from that building, even if it was my usage, again, because living there is not okay.
I had a conversation with my director. Here is the jist of what she said,
-It is not a "big deal" to live there, even if it is illegal
-The utility money is not coming back to me because some of it is indeed my usage
-She can't afford to find me a new real apartment or give me a housing allowance so I am not allowed to move unless it is by my own means and money.
-The current illegal living space will remain unlocked if she wants it to be
-There are other issues regarding pay I'm working on with her too, getting paid late, not seeing my bills for my deductions, etc.
Okay here's the deal. I think she will keep trying to cheat me out of money and living properly. I don't feel I am in danger of being fired as I am the only foreign teacher and she has made zero threats to my job so far.
I want to remain in my area where I work now, at a reputable Hagwon ideally but teacher job in general is cool.
I don't want to lose my plane ticket, if I quit before 6 months I have to pay her back, probably even though she has already broken the contract in her own ways. I might have too, but losing $1,000 when she already broke the contract and won't give me a livable place seems unreasonable.
So, advice? I was thinking since I already called the pension office(she's not paying into the pension), health insurance, tax office, city hall, etc. and found out my numbers and percentages that she listed and made deductions for don't line up with what they all told me she would wise up and correct everything. She fought me and claimed I must have gotten bad information or not understood their English.
Should I get ready to go to the labor board? Is there another less drastic step to take or has this gone to far? Is the contract void once it is clearly broken or once she makes the living and working conditions un-tolerable for the employee?
To avoid any issues with housing for now I told her I'd be living with my boyfriend until housing is fixed, and so she can't charge me utilities anymore.
Any advice is greatly appreciated, I'm just looking to take the route where I don't get screwed out of too much money and I get to switch to another job nicely and without and visa issues.
Thank you guys, hopefully this will all work out well |
This is a case where a midnight run may be called for, at a time of your convenience and choosing - of course the day after payday - in the month that suits you.
Since you live in this school and you have confirmed that it's illegal - nice job on that! - you should be able to take some photos of your school and living situation that you can show to the nice man in zoning at city hall and to the local Education office. Of course this could get your school closed down altogether.
If you have moved out and are living with your boyfriend you will help your boss avoid the problem of illegal housing - but if this is good for you as a living arrangement it's still a good option on your part. And if you are no longer living at the school, you should make sure to move out all of your personal belongs.
Ye,s your boss is cheating you and having broken the contract herself you could sue for breach of contract, have the contract declared void and seek damages. This would be costly.
If you can hang in there for 6 months while living elsewhere, you will have time to find a new job. You could even try to quit with 30 or 60 days notice, but that might not be wise in this case - you know the likely reaction of your boss better than I do. So, maybe the midnight run option.
You might be able to transfer to a new job or you might need new documents - most people advise getting ready by preparing new docs so you can quit, run, or move quickly if fired.
Since you've begun the process by checking with the Pension and Health Insurance offices - Did you start the process for them to investigate your lack of benefits? If so, they will eventually contact your boss and she might react by firing you and certainly she would make your life even more difficult from then on.
Even after you leave your job you can follow up with your complaints and it's likely your boss will be required to make back payments for all of your Pension and Health Insurance and that the Labor Office will require her to pay any other unpaid income items. You will probably never see any money for your housing situation however unless you sue.
Hang in there and keep fighting. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| This is a really awful story, and I hope it works out for you. That said, you do get to leave Korea with one of the more absurd stories anyone has ever gotten out of the place. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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I think that you should report them to the zoning guy. Tell him that the boss refused to get you proper housing. Don't tell him that you're living at your boyfriend's place because then the boss is no longer breaking that law.
Also, report them tot he labor board for not paying your in full. You already know that the utilities deductions were not valid, so they are illegal deductions from your pay. You can also tell the labor guys that you aren't receiving housing as per the contract. Tell them exactly what the zoning guy told you. Tell them as well that your boss has yet to enroll you for health insurance or pension and that the amounts they've declared for taxes are not correct.
It's very important for YOU to make the first move here. Don't leave it too long. You need to report your boss before you get fired. Doing so before getting fired makes it a lot easier to transfer your visa.
The advice for you to wait until your 6 month mark is horrible advice. If the boss wants, she can fire you in the 5th month. Besides, do you really know that you're not going to get cheated out of the same or even more money while you wait? She's going to withhold part of your pay anyway (she already is). Besides, depending on how it's worded in the contract, she might have to take you to court to recover the cost of the plane ticket. If she simply withholds it from your last salary then the labor board might just consider it another illegal deduction.
If she gets in trouble from zoning office or the various tax offices (there's a good change that they'll look into her now that she's on the radar) she might just make up an excuse to fire you tomorrow. So cut your losses, take the initiative, and finish this on YOIUR terms, not hers, now while you still have the upper hand. Wait and things can go south pretty quickly. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
This is a case where a midnight run may be called for, at a time of your convenience and choosing - of course the day after payday - in the month that suits you.
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If you do this, then there's not much the labor board can do for you because YOU QUIT. At most you could claim for some unpaid salary (depending on when the school says that you actually left).
| ontheway wrote: |
Since you live in this school and you have confirmed that it's illegal - nice job on that! - you should be able to take some photos of your school and living situation that you can show to the nice man in zoning at city hall and to the local Education office. Of course this could get your school closed down altogether.
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That would actually be a bonus. Aside from the joy of making your wretched boss suffer for being a jerk, it would also ensure that you can transfer or get a D10. School going out of business lets you transfer at any time without a LOR.
| ontheway wrote: |
If you have moved out and are living with your boyfriend you will help your boss avoid the problem of illegal housing - but if this is good for you as a living arrangement it's still a good option on your part.
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It's hardly a good option. Her contract offers her an apartment and she's not getting it. That's like saying "Well, if you're parents are giving you money to live off of, then it's a good option because then you still have the same income when your boss isn't paying you your full salary."
Besides, if her boyfriend's apartment is listed as having a single occupant then it can get him in some minor trouble although most likely it would just be an increase in his utility rates.
Unless she's getting housing allowance, she shouldn't just stay at her boyfriend's place to help out her boss. It's a good option if she gets fired or if she gets a D10 and needs a place to stay while she job hunts. Otherwise, it's not a good option.
| ontheway wrote: |
Ye,s your boss is cheating you and having broken the contract herself you could sue for breach of contract, have the contract declared void and seek damages. This would be costly.
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She doesn't need to sue for damages. She just needs to report her employer to the labor board. It might take a few months to get your missing back pay but you should eventually see it. She also doesn't need to sue them to get released from her contract and transfer her visa.
| ontheway wrote: |
If you can hang in there for 6 months while living elsewhere, you will have time to find a new job.
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Yes. And she will also have time to be fire, time to be cheated out of more money, time for the school to go out of business, time for the boss to get the upper hand. If she waits then there will be time for LOTS of things.
| ontheway wrote: |
You could even try to quit with 30 or 60 days notice, but that might not be wise in this case - you know the likely reaction of your boss better than I do. So, maybe the midnight run option.
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No!
No!
No!
If you're planning on returning right away then don't do a midnight run. There's nothing to gain and plenty to lose. Report the boss for her shady business and transfer your visa. After you transfer (and before the school loses all it's money) file a claim at the labor board.
| ontheway wrote: |
You might be able to transfer to a new job or you might need new documents - most people advise getting ready by preparing new docs so you can quit, run, or move quickly if fired.
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Finally, some good advice. Start getting your documents together.... just in case. But running should be a last option. Better to transfer (and screw the school in the process).
| ontheway wrote: |
Since you've begun the process by checking with the Pension and Health Insurance offices - Did you start the process for them to investigate your lack of benefits? If so, they will eventually contact your boss and she might react by firing you and certainly she would make your life even more difficult from then on.
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Which is all the more reason to report her NOW - before getting fired. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Shenanigans17 wrote: |
Okay here's the deal. I think she will keep trying to cheat me out of money and living properly. I don't feel I am in danger of being fired as I am the only foreign teacher and she has made zero threats to my job so far.
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Trust me. You're expendable. Just because you haven't had any threats so far, doesn't mean it won't come out of the blue one day. Just because you're the only teachers doesn't mean she couldn't get a temp replacement. There are agencies that deal with temp and part-time work. Or she might just stop offering classes with a foreign teacher.
| Shenanigans17 wrote: |
I want to remain in my area where I work now, at a reputable Hagwon ideally but teacher job in general is cool.
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What does that mean? Your preference is for a reputable employer, but it's not a deal breaker? If there are no reputable schools in your area, then you're totally ok with a shady one? Standards, man! Standards!
There are plenty of schools out there. Unless you're way out in the sticks or you aren't willing to commute a bit to be with your BF, then you should be able to find something reputable. But hey, if you're ok with a shady place, then stay where you are now. Just make sure to stock up on the KY jelly because with your current employer you're going to need a lot of it. |
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Shenanigans17
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Location: Jeju
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| Shenanigans17 wrote: |
Okay here's the deal. I think she will keep trying to cheat me out of money and living properly. I don't feel I am in danger of being fired as I am the only foreign teacher and she has made zero threats to my job so far.
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Trust me. You're expendable. Just because you haven't had any threats so far, doesn't mean it won't come out of the blue one day. Just because you're the only teachers doesn't mean she couldn't get a temp replacement. There are agencies that deal with temp and part-time work. Or she might just stop offering classes with a foreign teacher.
| Shenanigans17 wrote: |
I want to remain in my area where I work now, at a reputable Hagwon ideally but teacher job in general is cool.
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What does that mean? Your preference is for a reputable employer, but it's not a deal breaker? If there are no reputable schools in your area, then you're totally ok with a shady one? Standards, man! Standards!
There are plenty of schools out there. Unless you're way out in the sticks or you aren't willing to commute a bit to be with your BF, then you should be able to find something reputable. But hey, if you're ok with a shady place, then stay where you are now. Just make sure to stock up on the KY jelly because with your current employer you're going to need a lot of it. |
Sorry, I mean I'd like to move to one of the bigger Hagwons nearby where I know the people who work there always get paid in full on time, have no major problems, etc. I live in a city, Seogwipo, but it's small enough that I know most of the Hagwons and people who work there. I meant EPIK would also be an option as would living anywhere in Jeju for finding a new job. The last thing I want is another shady school, finding a good one would be my top priority at this point, after dealing with the current one the best way possible. |
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Robert23
Joined: 19 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| This seems like a clear-cut example of a hagwon everyone should avoid. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Shenanigans17 wrote: |
I had a conversation with my director. Here is the jist of what she said,
-It is not a "big deal" to live there, even if it is illegal
-The utility money is not coming back to me because some of it is indeed my usage
-She can't afford to find me a new real apartment or give me a housing allowance so I am not allowed to move unless it is by my own means and money.
-The current illegal living space will remain unlocked if she wants it to be
-There are other issues regarding pay I'm working on with her too, getting paid late, not seeing my bills for my deductions, etc.
Okay here's the deal. I think she will keep trying to cheat me out of money and living properly. I don't feel I am in danger of being fired as I am the only foreign teacher and she has made zero threats to my job so far.
I want to remain in my area where I work now, at a reputable Hagwon ideally but teacher job in general is cool.
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She's being stubborn. So, you stubbornly refuse to stay. Tell her to get bent and move on. A new job will give you a flight home. Move on. It's only going to get worse. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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lol holy crap this job is why the labor board exists! What a joke.
Get the zoning guy to draw up an official document for you stating exactly what he told you in person. Take it to immigration with photo evidence and your contract first thing in the morning and get their advice. Go to the labor board right after that. Get the names of everyone you talk to at these offices (something I always forget in the moment). Make it clear to immi that you want to stay in Korea. Listen to them, not us.
It sounds to me like the hakwon you're at isn't making much money so the director is cutting corners. If she were honest and tried to be accommodating after your talk, I *might* say give her a chance. But nah, get every single 100 won you're owed. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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hey OP - so sorry to hear your story but honestly, it makes me laugh because believe it or not, some years ago, I recall a fellow posting a similar situation on here - possibly the same hakwon but who knows -
he also wanted out of the living situation and when it was a no-go from his boss, he started piling up the beer cans, hanging around shirtless, burping etc. and not showering, in general making himself as unpresentable as possible. don't recall what actually happened after that -
what's important for you is to know that no matter how illegal this might be, and no matter how many entities are on your side, a situation like this has been constructed and deemed the way it's gonna be no matter what. you may get some funds owed, but chances are next to nil you'll get a decent place to live.
just hang in there until pay day and then go your merry way - there are other places out there less hostile to the foreign teacher.
not only that, but if you continue to live and stay in such a situation, it's just not going to end well no matter what and then you'll wind up having to explain to your next employer why you didn't finish your contract. do it sooner and it's easier just to forget about and start fresh before much time has passed.
btw, have you asked yourself seriously, is this why you packed up and moved to another country? is this the experience you were looking for? |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:02 am Post subject: |
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I doubt that the labor office will do anything at all.
The OP mentioned Soegwepo (sp?). Try it for sure, but don't hold your
breath. |
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