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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Someone opened up a closet door and out stepped Johnny B. Goode
Playing guitar like a-ringin' a bell and lookin' like he should
If you gotta play at garden parties, I wish you a lotta luck
But if memories were all I sang, I'd rather drive a truck |
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michi gnome
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Location: Dokdo
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Funny, you are trying to get out of truck-driving and head over to Korea. I've been thinking of the exact opposite for a while. Have taught for a few years in Korea, and would really like to get a CDL and give trucking a try in the States. I'm thinking more over-the-road, or else end up driving a tour bus in Alaska or somewhere in the Summer. Figure being able to teach & drive a truck will give me more options in an uncertain economy.
How did you get your CDL? Did the oil companies train you, or did you attend a trucking school on your own? I'm looking into those options now, and would be interested in hearing how you got into that industry.
On a starting salary in Korea, you can save over $1000 a month, without much trouble and living well. I had months where I saved about $1400 on an entry-level salary (2.2 million, right now about $1,950).
If the people in the oil industry are getting you down, you might appreciate the cast of characters from around the world you are likely to meet in Korea. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
Someone opened up a closet door and out stepped Johnny B. Goode
Playing guitar like a-ringin' a bell and lookin' like he should
If you gotta play at garden parties, I wish you a lotta luck
But if memories were all I sang, I'd rather drive a truck |
Yes...but have you learned your lesson well?  |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| If you don't mind, I'd like to hear more about what it's like living there in ND. Also, what other kinds of jobs are around that they are desperate for? |
Blue collar anything. But good luck finding someplace to live. 2 bedroom apartments for $2500 aren't uncommon. |
I read an article this morning talking about people renting space on some dude's farm to park an RV for $1,000 a month. That's nuts! |
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Davidbcnu
Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:19 pm Post subject: using my degree |
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Thank you all for your replies and advice as they are very much appreciated.
I have come to the conclusion that I will opt to teach in Asia within the near future for a variety of reasons. Signing up and taking the Celta "somewhere" would be my first step followed by getting used to a new foreign country.
Before taking this illustrious job , I worked as a special needs assistant (a.k.a. babysitter in the shops) for 2 years @13hr at a vocational high school, so I have experience w/students. Anyhow, I knew I could make more than 15k a year  ...so I paid for the over priced $3,700, 3wk "oil field package" training at the Sage driving school. Since they cater to Sanjel (frac company) and charge them outrageous fees as their official training center... they scheduled my driving test and kicked me to the curb after just 2 weeks!!
@Jimmy and michi if your looking at getting your cdl and joining the party up here...DO NOT join up with the fracking companies unless your prepared to do real shiddy operator work (not driving) and be on the hook for 8k+ if you quite within 6 months and they send you through school. The turnover rate is like 40% with fracking, and I believe Haliburton guys (their all pretty young) start out at $14hr. Its better than rough necking, but not by much. I obtained a cdl because this oil boom in ND is good for at least 10 years and opens jobs up in the $18-20 range in most local job markets if need be.
Housing up here is very scarce as everyone is living the RV life. The two lane highways are way over congested with trucks resembling a scene right out of a horror movie.
Finally, not to make teaching esl in Korea or Asia more than it is... but only about 25% (far less up here!) of folks have an undergraduate degree that enables them the option to experience travel with a 27-30k a year teaching job.
DM |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: using my degree |
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| Davidbcnu wrote: |
Finally, not to make teaching esl in Korea or Asia more than it is... but only about 25% (far less up here!) of folks have an undergraduate degree that enables them the option to experience travel with a 27-30k a year teaching job.
DM |
Except that 27-30k a year teaching job IS making it more than it is. Try 18-20k a year. At the current exchange rate for example, 2 million won a month comes to 20,400 USD a year.
That is the average for most people here especially if one has no experience.
The high salaries that you see on here...?
(A) Are by people with certifications and years of experience.
(B) Not teaching .
(C) Networking/got lucky.
(D) Made up...everyone has a 50k job a year on the Internet.
Not trying to discourage you from applying...I just think you should have a realistic picture of what is likely. ESL cafe has a high proportion of experienced vets so the salaries that people are tossing around (assuming that they aren't option D) are usually a result of option A. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: using my degree |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Davidbcnu wrote: |
Finally, not to make teaching esl in Korea or Asia more than it is... but only about 25% (far less up here!) of folks have an undergraduate degree that enables them the option to experience travel with a 27-30k a year teaching job.
DM |
Except that 27-30k a year teaching job IS making it more than it is. Try 18-20k a year. At the current exchange rate for example, 2 million won a month comes to 20,400 USD a year.
That is the average for most people here especially if one has no experience.
The high salaries that you see on here...?
(A) Are by people with certifications and years of experience.
(B) Not teaching .
(C) Networking/got lucky.
(D) Made up...everyone has a 50k job a year on the Internet.
Not trying to discourage you from applying...I just think you should have a realistic picture of what is likely. ESL cafe has a high proportion of experienced vets so the salaries that people are tossing around (assuming that they aren't option D) are usually a result of option A. |
Again, he should also consider pension, severance, and most importantly housing. If what people are saying is true about North Dakota housing prices, that might mean the level of savings are comparable.
if we say that base salary is around $21,000 or so, depending upon fluctuation of exchange rates, if you add in severance and pension that adds to about roughly $3,000, so we are up to around $24,000. If we assume that the value of the housing is around $300-$400 a month, then it comes to about a $27,000-$29,000 base rate for teaching English in South Korea. |
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toby99
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Location: Dong-Incheon-by-the-sea, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| From what I gather, western North Dakota is boomtown USA. I'd think long and hard before jetting off to Korea for a relatively low-wage, dead-end gig teaching english. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: using my degree |
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| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Davidbcnu wrote: |
Finally, not to make teaching esl in Korea or Asia more than it is... but only about 25% (far less up here!) of folks have an undergraduate degree that enables them the option to experience travel with a 27-30k a year teaching job.
DM |
Except that 27-30k a year teaching job IS making it more than it is. Try 18-20k a year. At the current exchange rate for example, 2 million won a month comes to 20,400 USD a year.
That is the average for most people here especially if one has no experience.
The high salaries that you see on here...?
(A) Are by people with certifications and years of experience.
(B) Not teaching .
(C) Networking/got lucky.
(D) Made up...everyone has a 50k job a year on the Internet.
Not trying to discourage you from applying...I just think you should have a realistic picture of what is likely. ESL cafe has a high proportion of experienced vets so the salaries that people are tossing around (assuming that they aren't option D) are usually a result of option A. |
Again, he should also consider pension, severance, and most importantly housing. If what people are saying is true about North Dakota housing prices, that might mean the level of savings are comparable.
if we say that base salary is around $21,000 or so, depending upon fluctuation of exchange rates, if you add in severance and pension that adds to about roughly $3,000, so we are up to around $24,000. If we assume that the value of the housing is around $300-$400 a month, then it comes to about a $27,000-$29,000 base rate for teaching English in South Korea. |
The housing is money he doesn't get. He does not leave with that in his pocket.
And if we are going to add pension and severance we should also TAKE OUT taxes and health insurance which comes just under 5 percent or so which cancels out the pension pretty much.
So he's left with around 22k for the year in actual cold hard cash. (And after food and entertainment it leaves less than half that unless he lives like a hermit). And all that is assuming his boss doesn't try to cheat him in any way. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: using my degree |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Davidbcnu wrote: |
Finally, not to make teaching esl in Korea or Asia more than it is... but only about 25% (far less up here!) of folks have an undergraduate degree that enables them the option to experience travel with a 27-30k a year teaching job.
DM |
Except that 27-30k a year teaching job IS making it more than it is. Try 18-20k a year. At the current exchange rate for example, 2 million won a month comes to 20,400 USD a year.
That is the average for most people here especially if one has no experience.
The high salaries that you see on here...?
(A) Are by people with certifications and years of experience.
(B) Not teaching .
(C) Networking/got lucky.
(D) Made up...everyone has a 50k job a year on the Internet.
Not trying to discourage you from applying...I just think you should have a realistic picture of what is likely. ESL cafe has a high proportion of experienced vets so the salaries that people are tossing around (assuming that they aren't option D) are usually a result of option A. |
Again, he should also consider pension, severance, and most importantly housing. If what people are saying is true about North Dakota housing prices, that might mean the level of savings are comparable.
if we say that base salary is around $21,000 or so, depending upon fluctuation of exchange rates, if you add in severance and pension that adds to about roughly $3,000, so we are up to around $24,000. If we assume that the value of the housing is around $300-$400 a month, then it comes to about a $27,000-$29,000 base rate for teaching English in South Korea. |
The housing is money he doesn't get. He does not leave with that in his pocket.
And if we are going to add pension and severance we should also TAKE OUT taxes and health insurance which comes just under 5 percent or so which cancels out the pension pretty much.
So he's left with around 22k for the year in actual cold hard cash. (And after food and entertainment it leaves less than half that unless he lives like a hermit). And all that is assuming his boss doesn't try to cheat him in any way. |
The housing is money that he would have had to spend anyways, so I don't really see your point there. He is American, so no taxes, unless he stays for more than two years.
So, while the actual salary works out to about 22k, it is comparable to a much higher U.S. salary, because you don't have to pay for your housing, and you don't have to pay any taxes. Also, if anything the health care is a benefit, so taking out the healthcare contribution is not an accurate way of putting it, because in actuality the half that the work puts in is a benefit in addition to the salary. To sum up, living in the United States on 22,000 and paying taxes and paying for housing gives you a much lower rate of possible savings than living on that in Korea with no taxes and housing paid. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: using my degree |
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| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Davidbcnu wrote: |
Finally, not to make teaching esl in Korea or Asia more than it is... but only about 25% (far less up here!) of folks have an undergraduate degree that enables them the option to experience travel with a 27-30k a year teaching job.
DM |
Except that 27-30k a year teaching job IS making it more than it is. Try 18-20k a year. At the current exchange rate for example, 2 million won a month comes to 20,400 USD a year.
That is the average for most people here especially if one has no experience.
The high salaries that you see on here...?
(A) Are by people with certifications and years of experience.
(B) Not teaching .
(C) Networking/got lucky.
(D) Made up...everyone has a 50k job a year on the Internet.
Not trying to discourage you from applying...I just think you should have a realistic picture of what is likely. ESL cafe has a high proportion of experienced vets so the salaries that people are tossing around (assuming that they aren't option D) are usually a result of option A. |
Again, he should also consider pension, severance, and most importantly housing. If what people are saying is true about North Dakota housing prices, that might mean the level of savings are comparable.
if we say that base salary is around $21,000 or so, depending upon fluctuation of exchange rates, if you add in severance and pension that adds to about roughly $3,000, so we are up to around $24,000. If we assume that the value of the housing is around $300-$400 a month, then it comes to about a $27,000-$29,000 base rate for teaching English in South Korea. |
The housing is money he doesn't get. He does not leave with that in his pocket.
And if we are going to add pension and severance we should also TAKE OUT taxes and health insurance which comes just under 5 percent or so which cancels out the pension pretty much.
So he's left with around 22k for the year in actual cold hard cash. (And after food and entertainment it leaves less than half that unless he lives like a hermit). And all that is assuming his boss doesn't try to cheat him in any way. |
The housing is money that he would have had to spend anyways, so I don't really see your point there. He is American, so no taxes, unless he stays for more than two years.
So, while the actual salary works out to about 22k, it is comparable to a much higher U.S. salary, because you don't have to pay for your housing, and you don't have to pay any taxes. Also, if anything the health care is a benefit, so taking out the healthcare contribution is not an accurate way of putting it, because in actuality the half that the work puts in is a benefit in addition to the salary. To sum up, living in the United States on 22,000 and paying taxes and paying for housing gives you a much lower rate of possible savings than living on that in Korea with no taxes and housing paid. |
My point is that the housing is a benefit (like the health insurance) not cash which was what the OP wanted to make...see his first post. And I'm not sure that the no taxes thing applies to a hakwon if I remember correctly.
Anyway my point was that it's quite a bit lower than what the OP was thinking it was going to be. 22k is 22k (and it will probably be less than half that once all the expenses of the year have been paid) and he's going back to the U.S eventually. And that's assuming he gets a slightly higher salary than normal in the first place. |
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Adam Carolla
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: using my degree |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Davidbcnu wrote: |
Finally, not to make teaching esl in Korea or Asia more than it is... but only about 25% (far less up here!) of folks have an undergraduate degree that enables them the option to experience travel with a 27-30k a year teaching job.
DM |
Except that 27-30k a year teaching job IS making it more than it is. Try 18-20k a year. At the current exchange rate for example, 2 million won a month comes to 20,400 USD a year.
That is the average for most people here especially if one has no experience.
The high salaries that you see on here...?
(A) Are by people with certifications and years of experience.
(B) Not teaching .
(C) Networking/got lucky.
(D) Made up...everyone has a 50k job a year on the Internet.
Not trying to discourage you from applying...I just think you should have a realistic picture of what is likely. ESL cafe has a high proportion of experienced vets so the salaries that people are tossing around (assuming that they aren't option D) are usually a result of option A. |
Again, he should also consider pension, severance, and most importantly housing. If what people are saying is true about North Dakota housing prices, that might mean the level of savings are comparable.
if we say that base salary is around $21,000 or so, depending upon fluctuation of exchange rates, if you add in severance and pension that adds to about roughly $3,000, so we are up to around $24,000. If we assume that the value of the housing is around $300-$400 a month, then it comes to about a $27,000-$29,000 base rate for teaching English in South Korea. |
The housing is money he doesn't get. He does not leave with that in his pocket.
And if we are going to add pension and severance we should also TAKE OUT taxes and health insurance which comes just under 5 percent or so which cancels out the pension pretty much.
So he's left with around 22k for the year in actual cold hard cash. (And after food and entertainment it leaves less than half that unless he lives like a hermit). And all that is assuming his boss doesn't try to cheat him in any way. |
The housing is money that he would have had to spend anyways, so I don't really see your point there. He is American, so no taxes, unless he stays for more than two years.
So, while the actual salary works out to about 22k, it is comparable to a much higher U.S. salary, because you don't have to pay for your housing, and you don't have to pay any taxes. Also, if anything the health care is a benefit, so taking out the healthcare contribution is not an accurate way of putting it, because in actuality the half that the work puts in is a benefit in addition to the salary. To sum up, living in the United States on 22,000 and paying taxes and paying for housing gives you a much lower rate of possible savings than living on that in Korea with no taxes and housing paid. |
My point is that the housing is a benefit (like the health insurance) not cash which was what the OP wanted to make...see his first post. |
He'll have a lot more cash if he doesn't have to pay for housing. Seems pretty elementary. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: using my degree |
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| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Davidbcnu wrote: |
Finally, not to make teaching esl in Korea or Asia more than it is... but only about 25% (far less up here!) of folks have an undergraduate degree that enables them the option to experience travel with a 27-30k a year teaching job.
DM |
Except that 27-30k a year teaching job IS making it more than it is. Try 18-20k a year. At the current exchange rate for example, 2 million won a month comes to 20,400 USD a year.
That is the average for most people here especially if one has no experience.
The high salaries that you see on here...?
(A) Are by people with certifications and years of experience.
(B) Not teaching .
(C) Networking/got lucky.
(D) Made up...everyone has a 50k job a year on the Internet.
Not trying to discourage you from applying...I just think you should have a realistic picture of what is likely. ESL cafe has a high proportion of experienced vets so the salaries that people are tossing around (assuming that they aren't option D) are usually a result of option A. |
Again, he should also consider pension, severance, and most importantly housing. If what people are saying is true about North Dakota housing prices, that might mean the level of savings are comparable.
if we say that base salary is around $21,000 or so, depending upon fluctuation of exchange rates, if you add in severance and pension that adds to about roughly $3,000, so we are up to around $24,000. If we assume that the value of the housing is around $300-$400 a month, then it comes to about a $27,000-$29,000 base rate for teaching English in South Korea. |
The housing is money he doesn't get. He does not leave with that in his pocket.
And if we are going to add pension and severance we should also TAKE OUT taxes and health insurance which comes just under 5 percent or so which cancels out the pension pretty much.
So he's left with around 22k for the year in actual cold hard cash. (And after food and entertainment it leaves less than half that unless he lives like a hermit). And all that is assuming his boss doesn't try to cheat him in any way. |
The housing is money that he would have had to spend anyways, so I don't really see your point there. He is American, so no taxes, unless he stays for more than two years.
So, while the actual salary works out to about 22k, it is comparable to a much higher U.S. salary, because you don't have to pay for your housing, and you don't have to pay any taxes. Also, if anything the health care is a benefit, so taking out the healthcare contribution is not an accurate way of putting it, because in actuality the half that the work puts in is a benefit in addition to the salary. To sum up, living in the United States on 22,000 and paying taxes and paying for housing gives you a much lower rate of possible savings than living on that in Korea with no taxes and housing paid. |
My point is that the housing is a benefit (like the health insurance) not cash which was what the OP wanted to make...see his first post. |
He'll have a lot more cash if he doesn't have to pay for housing. Seems pretty elementary. |
Regardless of whether or not he pays for housing, it's extremely unlikely that the OP is going to make the money he thinks he can make here ("upwards of 3k a month" ) Even 30K is unlikely for a first timer.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Wed May 16, 2012 3:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: using my degree |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
My point is that the housing is a benefit (like the health insurance) not cash which was what the OP wanted to make...see his first post. And I'm not sure that the no taxes thing applies to a hakwon if I remember correctly.
Anyway my point was that it's quite a bit lower than what the OP was thinking it was going to be. 22k is 22k (and it will probably be less than half that once all the expenses of the year have been paid) and he's going back to the U.S eventually. And that's assuming he gets a slightly higher salary than normal in the first place. |
The tax thing applies to any American working any job in South Korea, at least under a certain salary, I'm pretty sure. It's based on a tax treaty between Korea and the United States, so it shouldn't matter where you work. You have to give the school some proof of residence, and they have to give it to the government to prove you don't have to pay. It is possible that many hagwon owners don't know, or don't care. When I worked at a hagwon, no one told me about it, but when I found out about it I brought it up and it was taken care of. If you're American, I suggest looking into taking care of the paper work and giving it to your boss if they don't bring it up. Anyways the housing might as well be a cash bonus, because if he wanted he could probably get a housing allowance instead of the housing itself, and it's money that he would have to pay otherwise. |
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Adam Carolla
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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As an aside, since TUM seems bound and determined to highlight the negative aspects of living in Korea whilst not acknowledging that teaching ESL in Korea pretty much equates to living in fantasy land where you pretty much don't have to worry about bills and can save roughly half your salary in a given year, while also having a contract that is backloaded with rewards that can net you upwards of $5-6,000 AFTER you finish your last day of work...
Let's go back to the real world. The OP is currently living and working in oil boom country USA. The average oil job falls into the DDD category. Sure, you can make good money, but that's only sometimes the result of a high hourly wage, but more often the result of putting in 60-80 hours a week. 100 hour workweeks are not unheard of by any means. All of this while also being sleep deprived, which you can gather is a pretty standard state of affairs because most people, when seeing you in the morning will ask "Get some rest? rather than hello."
No, Korea is a pretty sweet gig compared to an oil job. The only way oil pulls ahead is if you're making 6 figures a year, and even then the costs sometimes outweigh the benefits. (A lot of the guys making those kinds of salaries end up getting divorced due to time away from home.) |
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