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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:49 am Post subject: |
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The poor kid died accidentally in a sauna.
The mother in her grief cannot accept it was an accident and is trying to prove otherwise in order to find someone to lay the blame on. Thats not that unheard of.
From all accounts the poor child/teen died accidentally. This woman will need to get over her grief (I cannot imagine how hard that is or will be) and stop trying to find someone to blame.
Personally, I would not have sent my 14 year old child/teen alone into a sauna but that does not mean she (mother) was irresponsible either....
Let this topic sleep people, whats the point of debating this here? |
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Pablo
Joined: 15 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: |
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I had not heard about this incident before, but watching the mother's videos, it's pretty clear that what happened was more than an accident. Multiple witnesses came forward to tell her so, even though they wouldn't go on record with the police for fear of their own lives.
(Tragic) accidents are convenient for guilty people, and also for people who don't want to get emotionally involved.
The take-home message for me is a stark reminder that, much as I dislike the word, we are in a *foreign* country. And that always has the potential to be very dangerous. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
The poor kid died accidentally in a sauna.
The mother in her grief cannot accept it was an accident and is trying to prove otherwise in order to find someone to lay the blame on. Thats not that unheard of.
From all accounts the poor child/teen died accidentally. This woman will need to get over her grief (I cannot imagine how hard that is or will be) and stop trying to find someone to blame.
Personally, I would not have sent my 14 year old child/teen alone into a sauna but that does not mean she (mother) was irresponsible either....
Let this topic sleep people, whats the point of debating this here? |
+10 points to Gryffindor. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:22 am Post subject: |
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[quote="T-J"][quote="hiamnotcool"]
| T-J wrote: |
My comment specifically said I was trying to disassociate from the specifics of the Mike White case.
The "resolution" that you call for is offered in responsible parenting in my opinion.
[/color] |
I'm not sure how your comment was disassociated with the specifics of the case, and if it was why post it?
Even if this involved an irresponsible parent that sent their 3 year old child into a sauna alone, it wouldn't make an investigation pointless simply because bad parenting was involved. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Pablo wrote: |
I had not heard about this incident before, but watching the mother's videos, it's pretty clear that what happened was more than an accident. Multiple witnesses came forward to tell her so, even though they wouldn't go on record with the police for fear of their own lives.
(Tragic) accidents are convenient for guilty people, and also for people who don't want to get emotionally involved.
The take-home message for me is a stark reminder that, much as I dislike the word, we are in a *foreign* country. And that always has the potential to be very dangerous. |
What conspiracy are you referring to? |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Let this topic sleep people, whats the point of debating this here? |
I think that is the issue, her son died and she was told to let the topic sleep because there was no point in talking about it. That works with a lot of things here, but I don't see it working with a woman that lost her son. Most skeptics are demanding she provide documents and hard evidence, but apparently she isn't being provided with any help in obtaining them. I would put most of the blame with the USA embassy here, not the Korean government. I'm surprised people are so skeptical with hakwons and other issues here, but an incident that seems as shady as this one is just dismissed. Has anyone actually read an account of a witness? I can't really find any hard facts on the case, and in my opinion that isn't her fault, she isn't the one that should be conducting the investigation. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
I agree with most of this.
Disassociating with this specific incident.
Don't let your children be unaccompanied in any situation. Even older children should have a friend with them. Under no circumstance should you allow your child to be alone with strangers.
To do so is the height of irresponsibility in my opinion.
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Uh, he was 14. Can he get on a bus alone? Can he walk to school alone? He is 14 years old, there was nothing wrong with sending him into the male side of the sauna alone. It sounds like they just aren't giving her the whole story, so naturally she is suspicious. It could be put to rest if someone conducted a thorough investigation, she is looking for resolution. I don't see her need for resolution as some kind of a "tin foil hat" idea. |
My comment specifically said I was trying to disassociate from the specifics of the Mike White case.
Since you push with "there was nothing wrong with sending him into the male side of the sauna alone." obviously the outcome in this case disagrees with your opinion.
The "resolution" that you call for is offered in responsible parenting in my opinion.
And no. My son does not walk to alone. He's a minor and this is accompanied by an adult or with a group of friends. That is what responsible parents demand at all times in my opinion.
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Are parents who send their kids to boarding school inherently irresponsible? |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:19 am Post subject: |
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And what exactly is it that the American Embassy is supposed to have been able to do within the laws of both the US and ROK that they have not done? Why should they bear blame and for what?
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Let this topic sleep people, whats the point of debating this here? |
I think that is the issue, her son died and she was told to let the topic sleep because there was no point in talking about it. That works with a lot of things here, but I don't see it working with a woman that lost her son. Most skeptics are demanding she provide documents and hard evidence, but apparently she isn't being provided with any help in obtaining them. I would put most of the blame with the USA embassy here, not the Korean government. I'm surprised people are so skeptical with hakwons and other issues here, but an incident that seems as shady as this one is just dismissed. Has anyone actually read an account of a witness? I can't really find any hard facts on the case, and in my opinion that isn't her fault, she isn't the one that should be conducting the investigation. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
| A 14 year old kid drops dead of a heart attack for no reason? I don't see a problem with a 14 year old being in a sauna on his own, by the way. What's so dangerous about that? |
Actually...there is a problem with this.
Saunas require caution.
As a child, I was never allowed to use one on my on...for safety reasons...like not swimming alone...you just never know what can happen.
My neighbor had one...we could use it any time we wanted...but never alone...never.
As an adult...I can see why...I wouldn't let my child use one alone.
The heat can be overwhelming...your heart starts beating wildly...and when that happens...your body just goes limp...and you can't move...it is a scary feeling.
Happened to me in a hot tub once....my dad was there to pull me out...I can still remember that feeling...heat and water...a dangerous combination...children need to be very careful.
TJ is making a good point on this issue... a child should not be left alone...and certainly not in a sauna.
The mother would like resolution...and few would fault her for that.
She may never find it...but I feel for her and hope she can make peace with this situation.
edited for Zyzyfer the grammar god. 
Last edited by The Cosmic Hum on Sun May 27, 2012 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Sauna's require caution. |
Oh my. Oh dear. You of all people abused the apostrophe? 
Oh and to stay on topic I agree with PatrickGHBusan 100%. Can't believe this was resurrected. |
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tardisrider
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| I would put most of the blame with the USA embassy here, not the Korean government. |
Why? |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
The mother would like resolution...and few would fault her for that.
She may never find it...but I feel for her and hope she can make peace with this situation. |
Nobody's faulting her for wanting resolution. It's her refusal to accept anything other than a murder as the cause of her son's death and her wild accusations against Koreans and Korea that have gotten her faulted. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Sauna's require caution. |
Oh my. Oh dear. You of all people abused the apostrophe?
Oh and to stay on topic I agree with PatrickGHBusan 100%. Can't believe this was resurrected. |
dohhhh...2am...it was 2am!!!! 
Agree with you and Pat...why was this thread resurrected? |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
And what exactly is it that the American Embassy is supposed to have been able to do within the laws of both the US and ROK that they have not done? Why should they bear blame and for what?
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Let this topic sleep people, whats the point of debating this here? |
I think that is the issue, her son died and she was told to let the topic sleep because there was no point in talking about it. That works with a lot of things here, but I don't see it working with a woman that lost her son. Most skeptics are demanding she provide documents and hard evidence, but apparently she isn't being provided with any help in obtaining them. I would put most of the blame with the USA embassy here, not the Korean government. I'm surprised people are so skeptical with hakwons and other issues here, but an incident that seems as shady as this one is just dismissed. Has anyone actually read an account of a witness? I can't really find any hard facts on the case, and in my opinion that isn't her fault, she isn't the one that should be conducting the investigation. |
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They should bear the blame for not providing clarification for everybody. I don't know what to think about this incident because all I can find is a bunch of gossip. Everyone says she is crazy, but where is something - anything - official to show that she is making all of this up? It isn't easy to just not talk about it either, and it isn't the first case of an American dying here when the cause was never really determined (or just made clear). I'm not saying murder, or foul play, I'm just saying because this has made the news, and will not improve relations between citizens of both countries, it is something the embassy should address. It seems like every few years there is an incident like this here, and it always seems to be the same old story.
If people want to put this to rest, how about linking to a story that actually gives the full picture...and what the final outcome was? I can't get a clear idea of what happened, I am trying to say that is the problem.
Until we can get a clear picture of what happened on that day, why would we forget about this? Why would we just "not talk about it"? seriously? |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
And what exactly is it that the American Embassy is supposed to have been able to do within the laws of both the US and ROK that they have not done? Why should they bear blame and for what?
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Let this topic sleep people, whats the point of debating this here? |
I think that is the issue, her son died and she was told to let the topic sleep because there was no point in talking about it. That works with a lot of things here, but I don't see it working with a woman that lost her son. Most skeptics are demanding she provide documents and hard evidence, but apparently she isn't being provided with any help in obtaining them. I would put most of the blame with the USA embassy here, not the Korean government. I'm surprised people are so skeptical with hakwons and other issues here, but an incident that seems as shady as this one is just dismissed. Has anyone actually read an account of a witness? I can't really find any hard facts on the case, and in my opinion that isn't her fault, she isn't the one that should be conducting the investigation. |
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They should bear the blame for not providing clarification for everybody. I don't know what to think about this incident because all I can find is a bunch of gossip. Everyone says she is crazy, but where is something - anything - official to show that she is making all of this up? It isn't easy to just not talk about it either, and it isn't the first case of an American dying here when the cause was never really determined (or just made clear). I'm not saying murder, or foul play, I'm just saying because this has made the news, and will not improve relations between citizens of both countries, it is something the embassy should address. It seems like every few years there is an incident like this here, and it always seems to be the same old story.
If people want to put this to rest, how about linking to a story that actually gives the full picture...and what the final outcome was? I can't get a clear idea of what happened, I am trying to say that is the problem.
Until we can get a clear picture of what happened on that day, why would we forget about this? Why would we just "not talk about it"? seriously? |
Care to provide any specifics why foul play may have been involved? |
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