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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| None of them spoke English, only talking to the shop keeper and completely ignoring me. They let the lady control and manipulate the entire conversation. When I would ask to use a phone to call someone for interpretation help, I was told to "shut up!" |
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| Then the police officer who had been telling me to "shut up" when I would ask to use the phone, told me dismissively, "go home!" |
In a dispute between two parties, the police are generally going to be gruff. They might be a bit more deferential to women and older people, but they generally want to let the person complaining yip and yap and listen for any nonsense in their story before turning to you, not letting the conversation turn into an argument.
Control and manipulate is often more likely "giving rope to hang themselves with". Cops deal with liars and panicky types every day.
Also, don't try to talk too much. You're the innocent party and a respectable professional. The cops are there to work for you and will come around to your view. Project that air. Be patient.
And the less you say around cops, the better. Keep answers simple, short, factual, honest and direct.
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| I spoke to a tourist office and asked if they could translate |
Big mistake. Don't rely on some 23 year old English major grad making 12 bucks an hour. You're in a new country. You know your jerk boss or jerk co-worker that gets their way and has gotten things through privilege or being a complete selfish bastard? Well that person comes in handy from time to time and this is one of those times. Keep em happy and drop some gifts on em every now and then. Booze or golf balls (the expensive kind) for the gent, some chocolate or booze for the lady. When you're negotiating the price on a car or TV or dealing with a bureaucrat giving you a hard time, get them on the phone, sit back, and watch them squirm. Then enjoy the quality service extras, discounts, and fawning by some lackey that comes your way. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Have a friend who speaks Korean call the police station and threaten to sue. The cops were rude to you, and according to Korean law you are able to sue them for compensation. |
I'm curious - what law is that? |
I can't quote you the name of law, but it came into effect about 8 years ago. |
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etopkorea
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: |
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I would have made a call to someone using that camera phone you used to try and take pictures of the cops.
You had a phone but you wanted to use her phone to make a call? Am I missing something or are you incredibly cheap and can't afford to use the minutes in a situation like that? |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| etopkorea wrote: |
I would have made a call to someone using that camera phone you used to try and take pictures of the cops.
You had a phone but you wanted to use her phone to make a call? Am I missing something or are you incredibly cheap and can't afford to use the minutes in a situation like that? |
Imagine the irony if you're right. |
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rabidcake
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
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| What would I have done? I would have calmly opened my bag & shown her the obviously used pants. |
+1.
Yeah, I have a hard time sympathizing here. What else did you think she was going on about? Hangeul or not, it's usually pretty universal when some shopkeeper thinks you stole something from them. Wasn't she pointing at your bag or something? Why wouldn't you have just opened the bag and let her see there was nothing in there? Why make a big thing out of it? Whenever I'm in a 'traditional' market I certainly don't expect anyone to speak English. I mean, look at those people. It also seems wise to keep your hands in plain sight generally. They're being racists, sure, assuming foreigners steal things, but a little preemptive caution is a lot better than a run-in with KNP for no reason.
The four officers is nothing strange. KNP always brings a knot of them. They don't seem have much to do so they all come on any call that they get regardless. And of course no Koreans can ever go anywhere alone, you know.
The main cop was probably gruff to you because he was rolling his eyes, going, why the hell didn't you just open the damn bag and save us all this trouble? I don't think they like dealing with paranoid adjummas any more than you do.
You gotta learn a little judgement, living in a foreign country. Yammering about the embassy was stupid, too. The cop who heard that probably thought you worked for them. Seriously. Calling the embassy is what you do when they're going to throw you in prison, not when you're having a misunderstanding in a clothes stall. |
Pretty amazing post, OP this is all you need to read. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Just a silly mistake no big deal. But learn at least some survival Korean!!!! Learn from this. Embassy will not help you most cops know this. Lady apologized that is a big deal. Learning the language would prevent a lot of the incidents written about on this board. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: Re: What would you have done? |
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| Julius wrote: |
Probably not have gotten into trouble in the first place.
What did you do exactly when you first walked into that store to upset her? People don't just accuse other people for no reason.
More details please. |
He brought an old pair of pants to compare sizes with new ones on the rack. The shopkeeper just sees the OP shove a pair of pants into his backpack and walk off, so she calls the cops. It was really just a simple misunderstanding. IMHO, she acted perfectly rationally given what she thinks she saw.
Now if I were the OP, I would know that most people do not go shopping with an old pair of pants in their bag. Therefore, if I were to do something so suspicious as shoving clothing into my bag in a clothing store, I would make my intentions very clear to the shopkeeper to prevent such a misunderstanding.
Failing that, I would be able to reason out that she must have construed my actions as shoplifting and showed her the contents of my bag immediately.
Failing that, I would hand over my bag to the cops to show them that I didn't have any stolen pants in my bag.
Failing that, I would not post my story on Dave's looking for any sympathy.
Failing that, I would take it as an opportunity to reflect on my role in the incident and learn how to avoid similar problems in the future. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: What would you have done? |
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| My2Cents wrote: |
What would you have done? |
having brought something into a market with me that I wanted to compare store items to, I'd have made sure the shopkeeper saw that it was mine and anything I put in my bag I would have done in their presence.
that is, I'd have respected the premises I was visiting whether it was a high-end store on 5th Avenue in New York City or an open air tin roofed shack in Asia.
you're lucky she didn't clobber you from behind then have her sons throw you in the Han after seeing her mistake  |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: What would you have done? |
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| madoka wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
Probably not have gotten into trouble in the first place.
What did you do exactly when you first walked into that store to upset her? People don't just accuse other people for no reason.
More details please. |
He brought an old pair of pants to compare sizes with new ones on the rack. The shopkeeper just sees the OP shove a pair of pants into his backpack and walk off, so she calls the cops. It was really just a simple misunderstanding. IMHO, she acted perfectly rationally given what she thinks she saw.
Now if I were the OP, I would know that most people do not go shopping with an old pair of pants in their bag. Therefore, if I were to do something so suspicious as shoving clothing into my bag in a clothing store, I would make my intentions very clear to the shopkeeper to prevent such a misunderstanding.
Failing that, I would be able to reason out that she must have construed my actions as shoplifting and showed her the contents of my bag immediately.
Failing that, I would hand over my bag to the cops to show them that I didn't have any stolen pants in my bag.
Failing that, I would not post my story on Dave's looking for any sympathy.
Failing that, I would take it as an opportunity to reflect on my role in the incident and learn how to avoid similar problems in the future. |
Exactement.
Its amazing how many foreigners come out with unusual or bizarre behaviour (most of it inspired by the urge to scrimp and save every last won the whole time) then wonder why they cause a stir. |
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My2Cents
Joined: 10 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: What would you have done? |
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| luckylady wrote: |
| My2Cents wrote: |
What would you have done? |
having brought something into a market with me that I wanted to compare store items to, I'd have made sure the shopkeeper saw that it was mine and anything I put in my bag I would have done in their presence.
that is, I'd have respected the premises I was visiting whether it was a high-end store on 5th Avenue in New York City or an open air tin roofed shack in Asia.
you're lucky she didn't clobber you from behind then have her sons throw you in the Han after seeing her mistake |
Wow! You're scarier and more emotional than the shop keeper and the police.
Here's what happened (instead of the fantasy going on inside your head).
I was looking at some hiking pants outside a small shop in an open market.
The owner (I presume) showed me some pants that were obviously too small. She motioned for me to come inside her store. She showed me some other pants but they were small sizes.
She started to get a measuring tape out but I took out a used pair of Dockers from my backpack so she could compare sizes. She gave me another pair of pants to look at while she went to help a customer. They didn't look like they would fit and I put them back and said goodby.
So, there was no mystery here about my used pants I brought with me to match pants sizes.
When I passed her store again, that's when everything broke loose. Some people are just crazy.
There wasn't any pointing at my backpack to get me to open it up, just someone talking and talking in Korean, behaving erratically, making a scene in front of police, manipulating a situation by hanging up on the tourist office when I tried to get interpretation help and understand what was happening to me.
When the police arrived on the scene I opened my backpack to retrieve my cell phone to take their photos. That's when the police took my pants with no explanation.
Before that, there was no "imaginary" finger pointing at my backpack (for the poster above), no request to open my backpack, no "conspiracy" to conceal any facts, just a lot of talking between the shop keeper and the police and ignoring my requests to call someone who could help with translation.
In the end, the police had the shop keeper apologize.
My post asked for suggestions on what someone could do to get out of a situation like this.
I found taking out a camera for documentation and asking to speak to my embassy was the only way to get the police officer's attention. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: What would you have done? |
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| My2Cents wrote: |
My post asked for suggestions on what someone could do to get out of a situation like this.
I found taking out a camera for documentation and asking to speak to my embassy was the only way to get the police officer's attention. |
1) Scrape together at least a rudimentary amount of Korean. Honestly.
2) Like previous posters have said - the embassy has better things to do than get you out of menial situations like that. Talk about overkill. Unless you're in a situation where you'd rather be deported than thrown into jail, don't pull the embassy card. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: What would you have done? |
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| My2Cents wrote: |
| luckylady wrote: |
| My2Cents wrote: |
What would you have done? |
having brought something into a market with me that I wanted to compare store items to, I'd have made sure the shopkeeper saw that it was mine and anything I put in my bag I would have done in their presence.
that is, I'd have respected the premises I was visiting whether it was a high-end store on 5th Avenue in New York City or an open air tin roofed shack in Asia.
you're lucky she didn't clobber you from behind then have her sons throw you in the Han after seeing her mistake |
Wow! You're scarier and more emotional than the shop keeper and the police.
Here's what happened (instead of the fantasy going on inside your head).
I was looking at some hiking pants outside a small shop in an open market.
The owner (I presume) showed me some pants that were obviously too small. She motioned for me to come inside her store. She showed me some other pants but they were small sizes.
She started to get a measuring tape out but I took out a used pair of Dockers from my backpack so she could compare sizes. She gave me another pair of pants to look at while she went to help a customer. They didn't look like they would fit and I put them back and said goodby.
So, there was no mystery here about my used pants I brought with me to match pants sizes.
When I passed her store again, that's when everything broke loose. Some people are just crazy.
There wasn't any pointing at my backpack to get me to open it up, just someone talking and talking in Korean, behaving erratically, making a scene in front of police, manipulating a situation by hanging up on the tourist office when I tried to get interpretation help and understand what was happening to me.
When the police arrived on the scene I opened my backpack to retrieve my cell phone to take their photos. That's when the police took my pants with no explanation.
Before that, there was no "imaginary" finger pointing at my backpack (for the poster above), no request to open my backpack, no "conspiracy" to conceal any facts, just a lot of talking between the shop keeper and the police and ignoring my requests to call someone who could help with translation.
In the end, the police had the shop keeper apologize.
My post asked for suggestions on what someone could do to get out of a situation like this.
I found taking out a camera for documentation and asking to speak to my embassy was the only way to get the police officer's attention. |
so because I lightened up my post with a sense of humor, you accuse ME of being scary??
hey OP, I got news for you - it wasn't the adjumma you pissed off that's a bit on the nuttso side 
as quoted above, you clearly asked specifically, what would (other people) do - and that's how I responded.
funny how your story now has significantly more details than in the original post, huh? 
you have no idea what transpired in the conversation between Angry Ajumma and the Tourist office - probably she told them you were a thief and the police were on their way and they said, ok, no problem, we understand, let us know if you'd like directions to Seoul Station 
what you have learned here are very valuable lessons that hopefully you will retain for at least a few more weeks - if you last that long in Korea -
1) watch out for Angry Ajummas, they are not to be messed with!
2) the American Embassy does not intercede in outdoor market disputes (and very little else concerning ESL teachers in Korea)
3) posting such a story on Dave's is not likely to garner support as you hopefully have already noticed.
oh, btw, Land's End ships overseas - you might want to just order your khakis from them, less trouble  |
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ewlandon
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Location: teacher
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: What would you have done? |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
| My2Cents wrote: |
My post asked for suggestions on what someone could do to get out of a situation like this.
I found taking out a camera for documentation and asking to speak to my embassy was the only way to get the police officer's attention. |
1) Scrape together at least a rudimentary amount of Korean. Honestly.
2) Like previous posters have said - the embassy has better things to do than get you out of menial situations like that. Talk about overkill. Unless you're in a situation where you'd rather be deported than thrown into jail, don't pull the embassy card. |
Some people on daves seem to just try to bash people to make themselves feel better.
OPs doesnt deserve people telling him he shouldnt leave his house without learning Korean and that he handled the situation all wrong.
1. Rudimentary Korean wouldnt have gotten him anywhere with some irrate shop owner. He would have to have a pretty darn good understanding of the Korean language to converse with her. People shouldnt have to learn the language to feel comfortable traveling. Calling a friend to translate is exactly what he should have done.
2. He didnt call the embassay he just name dropped in attempts to get the situation over with. It's kind of like saying "i know a lawyer, so you better stop."
Anyway the situation sounds like it was pretty scary at the time but the cops handled it well and it turned out to be nothing but an irrational shop owner. No big deal. I probably would have walked away from her which would have been a worse way to handle it. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:32 am Post subject: Re: What would you have done? |
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| ewlandon wrote: |
| People shouldnt have to learn the language to feel comfortable traveling. |
Last time I checked, most of the people on this board are working/living in Korea, not traveling.
If you are working in a country and you consider yourself a tourist, your priorities are way screwed up. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:41 am Post subject: |
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ewlandon
Slight problem with one of your statements...foreign teachers are not TRAVELING in Korea...they are LIVING and WORKING there. BIG DIFFERENCE....
Learning basic Korean is just smart and can avoid lots of confusion.
The OP has added details to his story and frankly puts all the onus on the adjuma when he has his fair share of responsibility.
Frankly speaking, talking about the US Embassy was completely dumb. period.
Live and learn: learn some basic Korean if you wish to go shopping in an open-air market.
luckylady's post was dead on. |
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