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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| One of my closest friends back home is Korean American. She warned me before I moved here that I would become racist. I don't believe that I am, but I am slightly more ethnocentric than I was before. |
Quite a bit more, here. I don't ever claim that my perspective is the intrinsically RIGHT one, but it works for me. I have a far more nuanced view of colonialism than I used to, now that I've seen what a half-cooked mess of it the Japanese made here, as compared to the British, French, German or Portuguese versions elsewhere in Asia.
I am now far more STRONGLY in favor of European and European-derived cultural norms. Everywhere I go in Asia I am SO much more comfortable with places designed and influenced by Europeans. The more, the better. From the French influence on Vietnamese food to the Euro-colonial quarters in Shanghai to the lovely pronunciation of English in Singapore--it's like breathing air again after being tied underwater. The old German architecture in Qingdao or the new French/Swiss architecture in Beijing...aaahhh. Thank God. If that makes me racist, I don't care.
I knew what it was like to be a minority from years ago when I was one of the first white people living in a now-gentrified area of Washington. That doesn't bother me. Steelrails is right: people are people, everywhere. Jerks sometimes, stupid and annoying sometimes, but sometimes kind and decent even when they gain nothing from it. I've had both happen here; honestly, I think kind has exceeded stupid overall.
As for love conquering all, it won't conquer me. I want out of Korea with NO links. I won't deal with K-girls who can never leave this place happily. Asians are fine, as long as they are Asians who will leave for the superior quarters of America or Europe and never look back. SE Asians seem to be fine with this far more than any Koreans, from what I've seen. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| No. Pretty much the same. We all have stereotypes and prejudices, but I don't think it's logical to think that a person is inherently superior or inferior based on skin color or physical appearances. However I am now more understanding of racism and racists. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
| Quote: |
| One of my closest friends back home is Korean American. She warned me before I moved here that I would become racist. I don't believe that I am, but I am slightly more ethnocentric than I was before. |
Quite a bit more, here. I don't ever claim that my perspective is the intrinsically RIGHT one, but it works for me. I have a far more nuanced view of colonialism than I used to, now that I've seen what a half-cooked mess of it the Japanese made here, as compared to the British, French, German or Portuguese versions elsewhere in Asia.
I am now far more STRONGLY in favor of European and European-derived cultural norms. Everywhere I go in Asia I am SO much more comfortable with places designed and influenced by Europeans. The more, the better. From the French influence on Vietnamese food to the Euro-colonial quarters in Shanghai to the lovely pronunciation of English in Singapore--it's like breathing air again after being tied underwater. The old German architecture in Qingdao or the new French/Swiss architecture in Beijing...aaahhh. Thank God. If that makes me racist, I don't care.
I knew what it was like to be a minority from years ago when I was one of the first white people living in a now-gentrified area of Washington. That doesn't bother me. Steelrails is right: people are people, everywhere. Jerks sometimes, stupid and annoying sometimes, but sometimes kind and decent even when they gain nothing from it. I've had both happen here; honestly, I think kind has exceeded stupid overall.
As for love conquering all, it won't conquer me. I want out of Korea with NO links. I won't deal with K-girls who can never leave this place happily. Asians are fine, as long as they are Asians who will leave for the superior quarters of America or Europe and never look back. SE Asians seem to be fine with this far more than any Koreans, from what I've seen. |
What you are saying could be considered seriously it it were simply the case that (1) the Japanese were made to leave 100% in 1945 and (2) full independence was granted to the Koreans thereafter.
The problem is that neither happened.
So the "half-cooked mess" isn't one that was made entirely by the Japanese.
It's more likely that Korea has been more affected by events occuring from 1948, by which point the Japanese had all departed. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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I think I have become more racist.
I used to be more of a cultural relativist, believing different cultures had different ways of doing things. I didn't see them as better/worse so much as just different.
After living in Korea I think less like that. Now I see more of their different method as just ignorance. (e.g. the belief that sleeping on a stone bed is better than a mattress.) |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| less rascist |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I'll tell you what, it's turned me into the Goebbels of Anti-ActiveX-ism and other computer-internet-passkey chicanery I've had to deal with. There's no room for multiculturalism and tolerance when it comes to your operating system. 3+ years of dealing with Korean windows is enough. If there is a Stormfront site for Korean internet practices, I'm in. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I find myself developing a sort of colonial attitude towards Koreans at times. Embarassed about it? Not one bit. The politically corrrect character I was when I first arrived here would have been. But I observe far too much nonsense and far too much stupidity - on a daily basis - to ever see Korea through those same rosey PC shades again. I used to believe that all things were equal, just different. Not any more. |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:23 am Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| What does criticizing culture or how people do things have to do with racism? I think some cultural practices are retarded, and I don't consider myself racist. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| What does criticizing culture or how people do things have to do with racism? I think some cultural practices are retarded, and I don't consider myself racist. |
+1. It's the overly PC nature of American society.
Did I just criticize a culture? I guess I'm racist to some people. (I'm American by the way...) |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:33 am Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kimchifart
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Kimchifart wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
It was fun for me to watch immigrant Poles in London last year.
I could tell exactly what they were thinking when some english shopkkeeper accused them of not taking care of their own children.
Small minded people are everywhere.
Personally I resent people who've never had to step out of their comfort zone and live in a foreign culture. |
This is the worst kind of relativist argument. Poles are almost fully integrated into the UK and almost half a million have come here since 2003, are able to seek any type of work, claim benefits and use the NHS. They have full rights and are treated equally under the law and are generally treated with courtesy. There are masses of Polish shops opening in small cities and towns.
Local services in the UK have been stretched due to mass immigration over the past 8-9 years yet they still receive all the rights and privileges of the natives.
Every week in the UK a plane arrives to take Polish criminals back to Warsaw, yet people still understand that proportionally, Poles do not commit a massive amount of crime.
Now compare how the 7800 English teachers in Korea are treated and the amount of rubbish in the press about us, when we have a lower crime rate that the natives. |
Why do I have the suspicion that if you were to ask a Pole, or a Pakistani, or a West Indian, you'd likely get a different take on the issue...
Kore has made me less racist because it confirms what I suspected- People around the world are pretty much their same. The tune may change, but its the same dance.
And lastly, be careful with this thread. A poster by the name of PastorYoon was banned because he blamed Koreans for making him more racist. Tread carefully. |
Sure there are always racists, you get them everywhere...but that's as far as I'll go with relativism on this issue. Korea is racist by governmental policy, the UK simply is not, quite the opposite. Yes, both places have ignorant reflexive racists, but if we're all honest here, Korea has more.
And really I don't need your Orwellian advice on how to handle my opinion., I was asked a question by the OP and I answered it completely honestly. I feel rather alienated in Korea sometimes and I'm afraid that is often due to xenophobic governmental policy and xenophobic attitudes in the workplace (general strangers in the street have always treated me well) |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:41 am Post subject: |
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Korea is racist by governmental policy, the UK simply is not, quite the opposite.
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Again, lets ask the "Pakis" what they think about that. Let's ask those immigrants to the UK what they think about racism. Sounds a bit like people in America saying "Oh, America isn't racist" and a bunch of blacks and Latinos rolling their eyes.
Possibly true, although constitutionally Korean legislation is bared from discrimination on a wide variety of areas. Although in practice...
But then again, Korea doesn't have people bombing each other over whether they are Catholic or Protestant or rioting over 22 people chasing a round ball to the degree the UK does |
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Kimchifart
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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Korea is racist by governmental policy, the UK simply is not, quite the opposite.
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Again, lets ask the "Pakis" what they think about that. Let's ask those immigrants to the UK what they think about racism. Sounds a bit like people in America saying "Oh, America isn't racist" and a bunch of blacks and Latinos rolling their eyes.
Possibly true, although constitutionally Korean legislation is bared from discrimination on a wide variety of areas. Although in practice...
But then again, Korea doesn't have people bombing each other over whether they are Catholic or Protestant or rioting over 22 people chasing a round ball to the degree the UK does |
No, it's really different, UK policy does not discriminate against Pakistanis...even following the terror attacks in London, there weren't any changes to policy regarding treatment of that ethnic group.
People on the street? Yes, there is racism, lots of it. But I'd bet quite a lot of money that public opinion polls show there is more street level racism in Korea. As regards policy level racism, there's not even an argument: Korean government policy is demonstrably racist (e.g. one foreigner committing one crime - heck not even committing it in Korea - results in multiple changes to the visa system for all immigrants.)
You're creating a straw man argument every time you reply to me. I'm taking more about government policy, not general street level racism, which I've acknowledged exists. Read what I'm saying: UK policy is not racist to UK immigrants.
Answer this: (don't duck it, answer it please) What do you think would happen to Korean government policy if English teachers suddenly started blowing themselves up on buses and subways here? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Kimchifart wrote: |
Answer this: (don't duck it, answer it please) What do you think would happen to Korean government policy if English teachers suddenly started blowing themselves up on buses and subways here? |
English Teachers aren't a race. There are Korean English teachers. Kyopo English Teachers. Black English Teachers. White English teachers. Filipino English Teachers.
So, yes I'm sorry, but I WILL have to dodge your question because 'English Teachers' is not a race. Foreigners in different professions have different requirements. Foreign business workers are treated differently than English teachers even though they may be of the same race and nationality.
So in response to your question, I really don't know. I'd assume they'd continue to have English Teachers and subcontract their vetting to the FBI and probably hire some Mossad types to patrol their airports. English education wouldn't go away. English Teachers are not a race. You'd probably see metal detectors at all subways and more scanning at ICN.
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| You're creating a straw man argument every time you reply to me. |
Says the guy who just asked me about English teachers bombing subways....
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| e.g. one foreigner committing one crime - heck not even committing it in Korea - results in multiple changes to the visa system for all immigrants. |
Really? Show me where that happened and ALL immigrants had a change in their visa requirements. That means all A-Z, 1-10.
You want racist, ethnocentric, and bigoted? How about the idea that ALL foreigners in Korea are NETs?, and based upon what you hint at, white NETs. |
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