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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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 Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| john110375 wrote: |
But I wouldn't have a problem doing military service if I wasn't too old. I think if you become a citizen you should have to do what other male citizens have to do. |
Do you support the draft in your home country as well? |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
| sublunari wrote: |
| How old do you have to be to avoid getting drafted? I would get this if only because traveling to China is much cheaper on a Korean rather than an American passport... |
If that's the reason you're trying to get naturalized, I'd highly suggest you reconsider... |
Why? Sometimes the visas fees one saves alone are worth the cost of getting the passport. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| Even so, you're still placing a blanket of blame upon Korean society for something that is ultimately your responsibility. |
It's my responsibility to make them respect me as one of their own if I were naturalized? What are you talking about? I can't make anyone respect me and making a Korean respect me in this Confucius society is twice as hard. Just because i run around with a little award stating I'm one of them is laughable. They'd probably smile and pat you on your back, but as soon as their out drinking and talking with their real friends...let's just say you'd probably not like what you heard them say about you. |
You're not going to make the locals respect you any more by othering them and not making an effort to communicate with them in their native tongue. You might find that you get a much warmer reception when you can actually communicate, even if that communication isn't fluent. And yes, there are a lot of racist old adjossis, but there are plenty of warm-hearted, open individuals as well. If you go through your time in Korea assuming the worst in every interaction you have, you're going to end up meeting a lot more of the former than the latter. It's really amazing that you've committed to spending so much time in Korea when you have such a low opinion of its inhabitants. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
Overlooked at restaurants.
Served last.
Taken advantage of.
And there's nothing much you can do....
as you stand there next to your wife like a little boy holding his mommy's hand....
emasculated, because she has to do all the talking.
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Dude if that is you that you're describing and it sounds as though it is...
I'm just sorry for you.
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john110375
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="chungbukdo"][quote="john110375"]
But I wouldn't have a problem doing military service if I wasn't too old. I think if you become a citizen you should have to do what other male citizens have to do.[/quote] Do you support the draft in your home country as well?[/quote]
If my home country had a crazy northern neighbor like north Korea I'd support it.
They want their people ready just in case |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| chungbukdo wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| I could but would NEVER become naturalized. These people would never accept me as a fellow citizen EVER, so why go through the dog and pony show to in the end still be considered a foreigner and outsider? |
This has nothing to do with anything. Even if your assertion that nobody will ever treat you as a fellow citizen is true, which status would be better for the purpose of being treated as a fellow citizen: non-citizen or official citizen?
Then there's the topic of who cares what "people" think of you. I have never given an ounce of thought to what "Canadians" would think of me back home, so why should I care what "Koreans" think of me? I only care what individual people who I interact with in my life think of me. Some of those people may be Korean, some may not; it is really inconsequential because I care about whether "Yaeji" or "Minsu" like me, not whether "Koreans" like me. I do not have a huge psychological need to be "accepted" by strangers that I do not know. There are plenty of native born Korean citizens who are not "accepted" among other people in their society, and I don't see them giving up their citizenship. Simply put, "acceptance" by a large mass of random people should not have bearing over one's decision to enjoy more legal rights or not. |
Why would you want to be part of a society like that? |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
Overlooked at restaurants.
Served last.
Taken advantage of.
And there's nothing much you can do....
as you stand there next to your wife like a little boy holding his mommy's hand....
emasculated, because she has to do all the talking.
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Dude if that is you that you're describing and it sounds as though it is...
I'm just sorry for you.
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Dodge7 has made it clear he has no interest in learning Korean or integrating into society in any way, despite the decision to marry and "settle down" here.
So no, I wouldn't feel sorry for him or the people in the U.S. who live there for decades without learning the most basic English. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I get where Dodge7 is coming from. I disagree though because dual citizenship would be great. Who cares how people treat you, it isn't a social thing, it probably holds a lot of benefits for traveling and making money here and in other countries. It isn't take anything away, it is just adding. I'm also curious to hear what benefits people have gained from it. I don't plan on doing it though, ever. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
Overlooked at restaurants.
Served last.
Taken advantage of.
And there's nothing much you can do....
as you stand there next to your wife like a little boy holding his mommy's hand....
emasculated, because she has to do all the talking.
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Dude if that is you that you're describing and it sounds as though it is...
I'm just sorry for you.
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Dodge7 has made it clear he has no interest in learning Korean or integrating into society in any way, despite the decision to marry and "settle down" here.
So no, I wouldn't feel sorry for him or the people in the U.S. who live there for decades without learning the most basic English. |
There's no rule that states foreigners temporarily residing in Korea have to learn the language and integrate. Even those who temporarily reside for long periods, with Korean spouses, are not required to do this by law. Of course, it's their choice whether they wish to do so or not.
But if they choose not to, and they then go on to complain about being taken advantage of, being generally overlooked, retaining a permanent outsider-status and essentially being helpless in these situations, then one has to wonder about their critical thinking skills. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
Overlooked at restaurants.
Served last.
Taken advantage of.
And there's nothing much you can do....
as you stand there next to your wife like a little boy holding his mommy's hand....
emasculated, because she has to do all the talking.
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Dude if that is you that you're describing and it sounds as though it is...
I'm just sorry for you.
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yeah and I'm sure you can get into an argument with the ajusshi at the police station or government office (for example) and fully understand and express yourself in a coherent manner if the situation arises. Don't kid yourself. You don't know enough Korean to be able to stand on one foot in this society. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
Overlooked at restaurants.
Served last.
Taken advantage of.
And there's nothing much you can do....
as you stand there next to your wife like a little boy holding his mommy's hand....
emasculated, because she has to do all the talking.
|
Dude if that is you that you're describing and it sounds as though it is...
I'm just sorry for you.
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Dodge7 has made it clear he has no interest in learning Korean or integrating into society in any way, despite the decision to marry and "settle down" here.
So no, I wouldn't feel sorry for him or the people in the U.S. who live there for decades without learning the most basic English. |
TEMPORARILY settle down here. Get it right. I fully, 100% plan on moving home with my wife and family in the foreseeable future. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
Overlooked at restaurants.
Served last.
Taken advantage of.
And there's nothing much you can do....
as you stand there next to your wife like a little boy holding his mommy's hand....
emasculated, because she has to do all the talking.
|
Dude if that is you that you're describing and it sounds as though it is...
I'm just sorry for you.
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yeah and I'm sure you can get into an argument with the ajusshi at the police station or government office (for example) and fully understand and express yourself in a coherent manner if the situation arises. Don't kid yourself. You don't know enough Korean to be able to stand on one foot in this society. |
Yes, clearly that's an impossibility. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
| I'm sure you can get into an argument with the ajusshi at the police station or government office (for example) |
Pretty pointless getting into an argument in these situations, here and in most countries around the world I would imagine. It's far more dignified to keep a cool head, and much more likely to achieve an agreeable result by doing so.
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| fully understand and express yourself in a coherent manner if the situation arises. |
Perfectly possible and highly likely if one commits oneself to language study and practice.
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| You don't know enough Korean to be able to stand on one foot in this society. |
This seems like more self-projection to me. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Puleez!
Dude, I first came here 21 years ago. I finished the Yeonsei KLI program 18 years ago. I've been married for 17 years and our primary language has always been Korean.
I run our business in Korean. I communicate with our son's teachers at PS in Korean. I am far from helplessly holding my wife's hand while she speaks for me.
I think going back to your country is the best thing for you if you are unable or unwilling to invest the time and effort into learning the language. I wouldn't stay here if I was in your current position.
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| chungbukdo wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| I could but would NEVER become naturalized. These people would never accept me as a fellow citizen EVER, so why go through the dog and pony show to in the end still be considered a foreigner and outsider? |
This has nothing to do with anything. Even if your assertion that nobody will ever treat you as a fellow citizen is true, which status would be better for the purpose of being treated as a fellow citizen: non-citizen or official citizen?
Then there's the topic of who cares what "people" think of you. I have never given an ounce of thought to what "Canadians" would think of me back home, so why should I care what "Koreans" think of me? I only care what individual people who I interact with in my life think of me. Some of those people may be Korean, some may not; it is really inconsequential because I care about whether "Yaeji" or "Minsu" like me, not whether "Koreans" like me. I do not have a huge psychological need to be "accepted" by strangers that I do not know. There are plenty of native born Korean citizens who are not "accepted" among other people in their society, and I don't see them giving up their citizenship. Simply put, "acceptance" by a large mass of random people should not have bearing over one's decision to enjoy more legal rights or not. |
Homerun.
I completely agree. |
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