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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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 Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Yangachi wrote: |
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| Meaning it's the PC term in Korean, which grants the proper translation as "African-American," |
You realize that the majority of black people in the world are not American? |
You do realize that only black Americans refer to themselves as Black (on legal/ government documents etc.). Other countries use person of colour, coloured, African, or person of African Descent. So...um...yes the majority of Black people in the world are American. 
In fact, many non-American people of colour, coloured, African, or persons of African descent get offended by being called Black, which has come to mean African-American.
This ball of semantics does little in understanding how standards for PC terms are adopted or created in countries like Korea though. I mean, I'm just curious of how the comment works.
Personally, I think 검은, 검둥이, 깜아기, 껌땡이, and all its variations are offensive. I don't see how this has anything to do with how such standards are created. 흑인 seems to be the PC word that has been used for ages in the country, so I don't understand why it's not being employed on mainstream news. And a potentially offensive term is in its stead. Yet, I wonder if the news was also trying to euphemistically de-racialize the term to some extent by using a shades instead of absolutes.
But, the question is whether foreigners feel that such a term violates, discriminates, or offends them.
Last edited by rchristo10 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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The caption does make sense. "Black (color) olympic first gold (medal)". In other words 'an olympic first by something that is black (color)'.
IMH this was meant to be a complement. Why? We used to joke: What sports blacks are not good at? (because they were so good at sprints, basketball, the usual stereotypes) 1. swimming 2. golf 3. gymnestics 4 chess 5. etc. This was supposed to be a good news: somebody broke a boundary. And you grumble because they don't love you the way YOU want. Give you an inch and you really do take a country mile. |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| andrewchon wrote: |
The caption does make sense. "Black (color) olympic first gold (medal)". In other words 'an olympic first by something that is black (color)'.
IMH this was meant to be a complement. Why? We used to joke: What sports blacks are not good at? (because they were so good at sprints, basketball, the usual stereotypes) 1. swimming 2. golf 3. gymnestics 4 chess 5. etc. This was supposed to be a good news: somebody broke a boundary. And you grumble because they don't love you the way YOU want. Give you an inch and you really do take a country mile. |
Calm down, Andrew. I'm asking about the term itself. It sounds racist. I just don't know if it's a euphemism or a pun of sorts. So asking how people who care about such issues (the objectified) feel about its usage. I've always seen it as a racist slur. And, no, this ain't about how she's portrayed. It's a language question.
Would you say that 검은 is a PC term as such? Felt a bit weird to me. And because I do a lot of translation, I'm a bit partial and judgemental of words. That's all. Just want to get it right.
By the way: Douglas isn't the first Black/ African-American to win a medal in Olympic gymnastics. She's the first to win that particular title (the individual all-around). |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| rchristo10 wrote: |
You do realize that only black Americans refer to themselves as Black (on legal/ government documents etc.). Other countries use person of colour, coloured, African, or person of African Descent. So...um...yes the majority of Black people in the world are American.
In fact, many non-American people of colour, coloured, African, or persons of African descent get offended by being called Black, which has come to mean African-American.
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Pretty much all of the black people I know in England refer to themselves and other black people as black.
On job application forms in the UK, the last time I checked, when stating one's ethnicity one can choose from, among others, Black Caribbean or Black African.
Sometimes my Korean students ask me if there are many African-Americans in England. Some of them (adult students) actually think that the term 'black' is offensive, but after spending a large portion of time in a Caribbean community in the UK, I can assure them that this is definitely not the case.
The term 'coloured' is pretty out of date these days as far as I know. I've heard black people say that we are ALL coloured. Some of us are coloured white, some of us are coloured black. |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:42 am Post subject: |
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In South Africa black people call themselves blacks. Also, other Africans that I've met refer to themselves as black, not African.
| tiger fancini wrote: |
The term 'coloured' is pretty out of date these days as far as I know. I've heard black people say that we are ALL coloured. Some of us are coloured white, some of us are coloured black. |
Actually in SA 'coloured' is not offensive at all, it means the mixed black/white/Malay population, predominant in the Cape, hence the term Cape coloured (and yes, they call themselves coloured and do not think of themselves as black in any way). |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| rchristo10 wrote: |
Calm down, Andrew. I'm asking about the term itself. It sounds racist. I just don't know if it's a euphemism or a pun of sorts. So asking how people who care about such issues (the objectified) feel about its usage. I've always seen it as a racist slur. And, no, this ain't about how she's portrayed. It's a language question.
Would you say that 검은 is a PC term as such? Felt a bit weird to me. And because I do a lot of translation, I'm a bit partial and judgemental of words. That's all. Just want to get it right.
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Dude, I already told, it's not a racist term at all because it doesn't make sense. Nobody uses the word "검은" alone when referring to people. It does not make sense. Nobody talks like that. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| Dude, I already told, it's not a racist term at all because it doesn't make sense. Nobody uses the word "검은" alone when referring to people. It does not make sense. Nobody talks like that. |
That's because his intent is to make a mountain out of a mole hill. He's not really that "curious" about how the Korean language works. He wants to show that he's found yet another example of Korean racism and will continue to belabor the point regardless of how many people tell him he is wrong. |
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yfb
Joined: 29 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ITT: we attempt to analyze deep racist subtexts of Korean words despite knowing little to nothing of the language |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| Dude, I already told, it's not a racist term at all because it doesn't make sense. Nobody uses the word "검은" alone when referring to people. It does not make sense. Nobody talks like that. |
That's because his intent is to make a mountain out of a mole hill. He's not really that "curious" about how the Korean language works. He wants to show that he's found yet another example of Korean racism and will continue to belabor the point regardless of how many people tell him he is wrong. |
Either that or he really really really can't get it through his head that literal translations don't always reflect connotations and racial undertones from one language to another. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
| madoka wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| Dude, I already told, it's not a racist term at all because it doesn't make sense. Nobody uses the word "검은" alone when referring to people. It does not make sense. Nobody talks like that. |
That's because his intent is to make a mountain out of a mole hill. He's not really that "curious" about how the Korean language works. He wants to show that he's found yet another example of Korean racism and will continue to belabor the point regardless of how many people tell him he is wrong. |
Either that or he really really really can't get it through his head that literal translations don't always reflect connotations and racial undertones from one language to another. |
Exactly. Which is why I have never had a problem being referred to as 외국인 in Korea. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
| madoka wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| Dude, I already told, it's not a racist term at all because it doesn't make sense. Nobody uses the word "검은" alone when referring to people. It does not make sense. Nobody talks like that. |
That's because his intent is to make a mountain out of a mole hill. He's not really that "curious" about how the Korean language works. He wants to show that he's found yet another example of Korean racism and will continue to belabor the point regardless of how many people tell him he is wrong. |
Either that or he really really really can't get it through his head that literal translations don't always reflect connotations and racial undertones from one language to another. |
Exactly. Which is why I have never had a problem being referred to as 외국인 in Korea. |
Haha that's a thing? 외(外)(outside) is also used to describe all family members on the mother's side (외할아버지, 외할머니, etc).
국(國) is country and 인(人) is person... Man I guess some people are really willing to nitpick to find a bone to pick with Korea. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
| madoka wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| Dude, I already told, it's not a racist term at all because it doesn't make sense. Nobody uses the word "검은" alone when referring to people. It does not make sense. Nobody talks like that. |
That's because his intent is to make a mountain out of a mole hill. He's not really that "curious" about how the Korean language works. He wants to show that he's found yet another example of Korean racism and will continue to belabor the point regardless of how many people tell him he is wrong. |
Either that or he really really really can't get it through his head that literal translations don't always reflect connotations and racial undertones from one language to another. |
Exactly. Which is why I have never had a problem being referred to as 외국인 in Korea. |
Haha that's a thing? 외(外)(outside) is also used to describe all family members on the mother's side (외할아버지, 외할머니, etc).
국(國) is country and 인(人) is person... Man I guess some people are really willing to nitpick to find a bone to pick with Korea. |
I kid you not. It's been a while, but I've seen posts here in the past in which people complain about how Koreans are racist because they call foreigners foreigners. |
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Ave, L�cifer
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| rchristo10 wrote: |
| Yangachi wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Meaning it's the PC term in Korean, which grants the proper translation as "African-American," |
You realize that the majority of black people in the world are not American? |
You do realize that only black Americans refer to themselves as Black (on legal/ government documents etc.). Other countries use person of colour, coloured, African, or person of African Descent. So...um...yes the majority of Black people in the world are American.
In fact, many non-American people of colour, coloured, African, or persons of African descent get offended by being called Black, which has come to mean African-American.
This ball of semantics does little in understanding how standards for PC terms are adopted or created in countries like Korea though. I mean, I'm just curious of how the comment works.
Personally, I think 검은, 검둥이, 깜아기, 껌땡이, and all its variations are offensive. I don't see how this has anything to do with how such standards are created. 흑인 seems to be the PC word that has been used for ages in the country, so I don't understand why it's not being employed on mainstream news. And a potentially offensive term is in its stead. Yet, I wonder if the news was also trying to euphemistically de-racialize the term to some extent by using a shades instead of absolutes.
But, the question is whether foreigners feel that such a term violates, discriminates, or offends them. |
what on earth are you talking about. step outta that lil' american bubble buddy |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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I take exception to that term, Tiger.
1. Do you call out people for every observable difference? If you see someone with a big nose, is it ok to shout - LOOK AT THAT PERSON WITH THE BIG NOSE!
I have no issue with being classified as a foreigner for immigration/paperwork purposes. I take issue with being shouted at as i walk down the street.
2. The term 외국인 is not used for foreigners, it is used for people who look like foreigners. My daughter, who in the summer has light brown hair, is Korean. Was born here, and has been raised here. Yet she is often called 외국인. Why? Simply for how she looks.
So yeah, I am one of those people that "take issue" with how it's often used here. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
I take exception to that term, Tiger.
1. Do you call out people for every observable difference? If you see someone with a big nose, is it ok to shout - LOOK AT THAT PERSON WITH THE BIG NOSE!
I have no issue with being classified as a foreigner for immigration/paperwork purposes. I take issue with being shouted at as i walk down the street. |
I understand where you're coming from with this, and of course it is annoying to hear it when just going about one's business and not bothering other people. But I just let it go straight over my head. 99% of the time, once my foreign-ness has been commented on, the perpetrators usually find something else around them to distract themselves with and my sighting is quickly forgotten. If they followed me, chanting and goading and threatening physical attack, then I'd have a problem. But this is yet to happen to me. And I have more important things to occupy my mind than being noticed for not being a Korean.
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| 2. The term 외국인 is not used for foreigners, it is used for people who look like foreigners. My daughter, who in the summer has light brown hair, is Korean. Was born here, and has been raised here. Yet she is often called 외국인. Why? Simply for how she looks. |
This is a tough one, and I do sympathise with your situation. In their minds, I guess that they see how she looks, perhaps they see her Daddy too, and then they reach a conclusion in their minds that she is not Korean. That kind of thinking will probably not change overnight, so one can only hope that when she gets older she will be able to explain her situation and guide their thinking in a more desirable direction for her and others like her. But I'm sure you know that this won't be easy. |
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