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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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 Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Hugo85 wrote: |
| Cant she use data from another study even if its from another country? Or raw data from another country. I assune the data is mostly to prove the validity of the methodology. Heck, she could.probably submit without such a case study and make it.clear that her supervisor was not able to provide the required data. |
I'll ask her about that. Thanks Hugo!! |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulman: I'm not sure what studies you did, but she needs statistical raw data. I'm not sure if you understand, but I think it's pretty pointless thinking that she has the time to go about accumulating statistical data on humans in a couple of months, analyzing it, and then writing a *master's* thesis. If it were for Ph.D. perhaps, but master's? Anyways, I'll broach that with her too. Thanks. |
I got my own raw data. That's what a thesis is all about, as coralreefer mentioned. I seem to remember asking for some help on this board and your behavior being rather rude. Thankfully other people did help and I was able to get my own raw data. Maybe your friend is reaping what she sowed by waiting for handouts instead of doing her own work. |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| StudentInKorea wrote: |
This situation seems to be quite common here in Korea. From what I understand, your friend is a girl and of Chinese ethnicity? I think that makes her easier for Korean professors to bully around. I have seen countless examples of female SE Asian PhD students being used as slaves, much less so for white males. You simply have to be firm with your professor without being (too) disrespectful.
My uni is trying to reduce the problem by making it easier to switch advisor instead of actually trying to change the professors behaviour. Since international students are more vulnerable to these kind of problems, the administration team for international students at my uni tries to help in these kind of situations and would be the first people to talk with. I don't know if they would be able to give any meaningful help, but it would be a place to start at least. I wouldn't give up quite yet. It might be too late to graduate this semester, but it shouldn't be unrealistic to graduate next semester even if she can't use most of what she has done.
Other than that, I also like the idea of having a different professor as a co-advisor. I did the same thing for my masters. Actually, my main advisor had absolutely nothing to do with my master thesis except for writing his signature 2-3 places. |
No she's not Chinese. She's ethnically mixed with...white and black...maybe more the latter. Let's just say she's definitely not Asian. She's also American. But I really get what you mean by bullying. I also heard that it happens with ethnic Koreans as well so thinking is a Higher-than-Thou complex rather than only ethnic discrimination. There's also a couple of recent students that say people should push for "Human Rights" for graduate students (hmmm...I don't get it either... ) Yet, I can imagine that being a different race added with language difficulties makes the power play a helluva lot easier.
I'm really curious as to what school you're attending. When I even asked a colleague about students switching advisors, the response was: "What? You mean like rejected the one she has? Oh, that's never happened before. Gosh, maybe once in the history of the school. Does she want to graduate?"
I think you guys have awesome advice. I'll tell her to spread herself out a bit or make it a bit of a group effort. Knowing her advisor though, and how single-minded he is in his pursuits toward doing anything, I hope this doesn't work against her. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| rchristo - please refrain from sending me personal messages. If you have something to say then say it on the forum. |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
| rchristo - please refrain from sending me personal messages. If you have something to say then say it on the forum. |
Please refrain from being off topic. Your prior relations with me is a PM concern no? That's why I PM-ed you. Attention seeker. |
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StudentInKorea
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
I got my own raw data. That's what a thesis is all about, as coralreefer mentioned. I seem to remember asking for some help on this board and your behavior being rather rude. Thankfully other people did help and I was able to get my own raw data. Maybe your friend is reaping what she sowed by waiting for handouts instead of doing her own work. |
It really depend on what you are doing whether you collect your own data or not. If you can simply make a survey to get your data, then that's pretty simple, but if you need large demographic data or technical classified data, then it's not really feasible to get it yourself. Without knowing the topic of her thesis, it's not really possible to say if she should get it herself or not.
| rchristo10 wrote: |
No she's not Chinese. She's ethnically mixed with...white and black...maybe more the latter. Let's just say she's definitely not Asian. She's also American. But I really get what you mean by bullying. I also heard that it happens with ethnic Koreans as well so thinking is a Higher-than-Thou complex rather than only ethnic discrimination. There's also a couple of recent students that say people should push for "Human Rights" for graduate students (hmmm...I don't get it either... ) Yet, I can imagine that being a different race added with language difficulties makes the power play a helluva lot easier.
I'm really curious as to what school you're attending. When I even asked a colleague about students switching advisors, the response was: "What? You mean like rejected the one she has? Oh, that's never happened before. Gosh, maybe once in the history of the school. Does she want to graduate?"
I think you guys have awesome advice. I'll tell her to spread herself out a bit or make it a bit of a group effort. Knowing her advisor though, and how single-minded he is in his pursuits toward doing anything, I hope this doesn't work against her. |
I just assumed she had Chinese ancestors since it's not so common to be fluent in Chinese. The point is the same anyway, many professors will try to bully any students if they can. It is not easy to stand up against professors, but it's important to not let it go out of hand. I have Korean friends whose professors tried to hold back their graduation to make them work in the lab, some of them won the verbal fight and was able to graduate in time, and some didn't.
I study at KAIST, and they have also had a lot of the same problems. That's why the administration and upper faculty makes an effort to change. I know quite a few people who changed labs/professors. Most of them changed lab after they finished their master's when they go on for their PhD, but even my lab had two people who changed advisor during their master's degree. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Hugo85 wrote: |
| Cant she use data from another study even if its from another country? Or raw data from another country. I assune the data is mostly to prove the validity of the methodology. Heck, she could.probably submit without such a case study and make it.clear that her supervisor was not able to provide the required data. |
Or, given the professors record of honesty, is it far fetched that her report might end up in the hands of another student with the data that she was never given conveniently inserted? I have no idea how to prevent that, but if the professor has the report on hand it is always a possibility. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Please refrain from being off topic. Your prior relations with me is a PM concern no? That's why I PM-ed you. Attention seeker. |
People deserve to know what kind of person they are helping. Someone who is rude and resorts to abusive PMs.
I consider this conversation over as continuing it will be of no benefit to anyone. |
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StudentInKorea
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
Or, given the professors record of honesty, is it far fetched that her report might end up in the hands of another student with the data that she was never given conveniently inserted? I have no idea how to prevent that, but if the professor has the report on hand it is always a possibility. |
This actually happened to a friend of mine. He wrote a paper, but when they submitted it to the journal/conference they "forgot" to include his name in the list of authors. |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| StudentInKorea wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
Or, given the professors record of honesty, is it far fetched that her report might end up in the hands of another student with the data that she was never given conveniently inserted? I have no idea how to prevent that, but if the professor has the report on hand it is always a possibility. |
This actually happened to a friend of mine. He wrote a paper, but when they submitted it to the journal/conference they "forgot" to include his name in the list of authors. |
Isn't that plagiarism? Was there any recourse/ retraction or anything taken at all? |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| StudentInKorea wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
Or, given the professors record of honesty, is it far fetched that her report might end up in the hands of another student with the data that she was never given conveniently inserted? I have no idea how to prevent that, but if the professor has the report on hand it is always a possibility. |
This actually happened to a friend of mine. He wrote a paper, but when they submitted it to the journal/conference they "forgot" to include his name in the list of authors. |
I know a foreign professor who was working with some Korean professors. The same thing happened to him. He complained to the American journal where the paper was published and showed his evidence. The journal backed him, but now as a result of this fight, it looks like his Korean colleagues (who tried to plagiarize off of him) won't recommend the renewal of his work contract. |
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Hugo85
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| If she goes the second advisor route, then the first one is still her advisor on paper. As long as she works more closely with the second advisor, meets the second one every other month and include his name on everything there should be no issue. Also, name and shame should not happen before she found a PhD lab / a job under any circumstances. In case she needs his name on a recommendation letter. |
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StudentInKorea
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| rchristo10 wrote: |
| StudentInKorea wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
Or, given the professors record of honesty, is it far fetched that her report might end up in the hands of another student with the data that she was never given conveniently inserted? I have no idea how to prevent that, but if the professor has the report on hand it is always a possibility. |
This actually happened to a friend of mine. He wrote a paper, but when they submitted it to the journal/conference they "forgot" to include his name in the list of authors. |
Isn't that plagiarism? Was there any recourse/ retraction or anything taken at all? |
As Konglishman mentioned, more than a publication may be at stake. For a master's student about to graduate it might be more important to please your professor than having your name on a publication. In this case, I think some of the other students had done most of the research while my friend did the writing, so putting him as a co-author would probably have been the correct thing to do. I am not sure of the final outcome. |
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