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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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 Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Yeah, 6-7 million a month is possible IF you have the F visa (and call me crazy, but I'm not going to marry a Korean woman just to get the good visa). |
So, get the points visa. What's holding you back?
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:28 am Post subject: |
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I want to get it, trust me. But that is easier said than done. It is very hard to get. In fact, I would say very few F6 holders would be able to get the requisite points- their Korean language ability is simply too low (even with having Korean wives).
Linguists and anthropologists consider Korean one of the hardest languages in the world for an English speaker to learn. Many forum users have said Korean is harder than Chinese, and I would agree.
More depressingly, research has shown it is rare for a monolingual adult to pick up another language. When it comes to language learning, age matters a lot. Did you know those who were bilingual as children have an advantage over those who were monolingual (when it comes to learning a language such as Korean as an adult)? What is your background, T-J? You are Canadian? Did you grow up French-English bilingual (a la PatrickGHBusan)? You have lived in Korea for 21 years now, correct? How would you rate your Korean ability? I saw on [another site which cannot be named] you recently took the beginner level TOPIK test. Did you take the intermediate level one after that? I'm not taking a swipe at you T-J; I think you're one of the most interesting posters on Dave's. I'm just saying, Korean takes years and years and years to learn, and I (personally) don't know if I will ever be able to get to a high level, no matter how hard I study. |
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kimchi_pizza
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Location: "Get back on the bus! Here it comes!"
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
Personally, I think the reason is a matter of supply and demand.
Yes, there are as many morons now as then but back before the crash of 2008 it was difficult to find a replacement and if your school was less than great it could take months to find someone who didn't google (and be scared off) and/or would be willing to work for you.
Now, even places like Wonderland, SLP and CDI, can fire someone on Friday and pretty much have a replacement the following week.
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As spoken like someone that trully understands! To a thread titled, "What the heck's going on?!" Moron. |
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Hugo85
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: wow |
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| creeper1 wrote: |
| Chaucer wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| The F visa = boatloads of money. |
Untrue. You still have to work at it. It doesn't just fall into your lap. There are F-visa posters on here who have said the same thing. |
Definitely untrue, by which I mean that TheUrbanMyth's untrue is exactly right--there are F5ers working solely at Wonderland, or YBM adults, etc. But others max it out, teaching business in the early morning, university during, uh, business hours, and middle/high school kids in the evening, in order to bank their 6-7 million (which a few F people I know consider minimum)--so that seems like bank to me, but that's power hours--those guys drive all over the place to make that. |
Wow!! I was unaware that one could make 6-7 million won a month just from doing privates. I thought you'd have to own your own hagwon to make that kind of money.
Newbie - that is even more of a reason to choose Korea.
Why? Because private lessons are always illegal (I'm sure F visa holders aren't going to to register and pay tax on those) and yet ESLers in Korea almost always do them and laugh all the way to the bank.
Of course I'm not suggesting that you do something illegal and make serious amounts of $$$$$$.  |
Bump up the number of kids in the private and lower the hourly cost. 1 kid at 40k versus 4 kids at 25k is a large increase. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
I want to get it, trust me. But that is easier said than done. It is very hard to get. In fact, I would say very few F6 holders would be able to get the requisite points- their Korean language ability is simply too low (even with having Korean wives).
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A good number of them would be able to scrap together enough points, myself included. At any rate, what's the old saying? "Nothing worth getting is easy.", or something to that effect. If you want it, really want it, then get it.
| World Traveler wrote: |
Linguists and anthropologists consider Korean one of the hardest languages in the world for an English speaker to learn. Many forum users have said Korean is harder than Chinese, and I would agree.
More depressingly, research has shown it is rare for a monolingual adult to pick up another language. When it comes to language learning, age matters a lot. Did you know those who were bilingual as children have an advantage over those who were monolingual (when it comes to learning a language such as Korean as an adult)? What is your background, T-J? You are Canadian? Did you grow up French-English bilingual (a la PatrickGHBusan)? You have lived in Korea for 21 years now, correct? How would you rate your Korean ability? I saw on [another site which cannot be named] you recently took the beginner level TOPIK test. Did you take the intermediate level one after that? I'm not taking a swipe at you T-J; I think you're one of the most interesting posters on Dave's. I'm just saying, Korean takes years and years and years to learn, and I (personally) don't know if I will ever be able to get to a high level, no matter how hard I study. |
No offense taken. Not Canadian, American and a very monolingual one at that before embarking on my Korean adventure. Yes, I've been in Korea for quite a while. I first came in '91 and was married in '95. I attended Yeonsei KLI from '93 to '95. We moved back to the States in '98 to give that a shot and start a family. Opportunities brought us back to Korea in '08. Of course we had a few trips back during our time in the States and my wife and I have always communicated in Korean. I did take the TOPIK and started with the beginner test, which I aced. I haven't gotten around to taking it again, but it is on my list of things to do eventually. Not that that test, or any test for that matter, is a complete measure of one's abilities, but from practice tests that I use to study with, I'm level five.
One thing is for certain, Korean is not easy for Westerners that do not have exposure, or experience in second languages and to those that do not have a knack for picking them up. I know because I have lacked both and struggled with learning for years.
Go for it. If you are in Seoul and want a study partner shoot me a PM. I've been known to help out an expat that wants to study from time to time.
Best of luck...
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TheFoodie
Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Location: Ebay Central
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| tardisrider wrote: |
| You're fired. Get out. |
Hahaha, you donkey! Love Hell's Kitchen. |
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TheFoodie
Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Location: Ebay Central
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
I'd say it is because of the economy back home. When I first arrived, 2003, foreigners would just do midnight runs all the time. I remember one time a guy called my friend,
Dude: "F�ck it man, I'm gone."
Friend: "What?"
Dude: "I'm at the airport. I've had enough of this shit. I'm on a flight to Thailand."
Friend: "Okay man, good luck."
And that was it.
Now people are scared to quit, or be fired it seems. |
Yes and this is what saddens me. The carefree traveller attitude seems a thing of the past. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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I married for love but trust me when you're making 6-7 million a month we're talking revenue not income. I'm not saying that there aren't successful people but 7 million in revenue does not equal 7 million in income.
Unlike the E2s expenses include national insurance, pension or retirement allowance, income protection insurance, housing, a decent car, insurance, gas, tolls, parking, a home office, your phone, decent clothing, books, and materials. As with any business some people are better at controlling expenses than others but before they come on here boasting they should keep in mind I'm arguing for higher pay and less people doing extra work.
As far as the OP I really believe that many people fall for the "news channels" the economy is a disaster talk. I'm Aussie so our economy is great but I had a friend who decided to get a job in the US recently, it took her a month. Another friend returned to Canada and had a job in 3 days. Finally a friend returned to Ireland and they're working.
Now graduates you are not going to walk into a management position because you studied business. I'm sorry to break this to you. You start at the bottom and work your way up, and I'm sorry if you incurred a lot of debt to get your degree but this doesn't make you more valueable than the person that worked, scrimped and saved to minimise their debt when they graduated.
In the past Korea was a way to party and repay debt and avoid undignified work for another year. Now it's become a career option because some people didn't want to work their way through college and can't face starting at the bottom now.
Hence there are more people prepared to come here even on their own dollar and with hagwons shutting down there are more people available to replace the runner. |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| J Rock wrote: |
Times are a changing, back in the good old days when I started '06 I had to contact one recuiter and he lined me up with a job that I started 1.5 months later. I had to be at the school maybe 6 hours a day tops, boss never bothered me, and I was never cheated on money.
Now it seems like people are contacting 20 recuitrs, multiple interviews, have to get Glamour Shots taken to send to the school, working hours of 9:00AM-7:00PM and are being cheated out of money.
I have to say it's mostly the economy but a little part of me thinks the caliber of teachers who apply is now lower. I had to interview a couple prospective teachers for our school the other day and the first was a kid straight out of college and he actually told me "uh this sucks so bad, I can't find a job anywhere so I guess I have to do this."
The next guy was maybe mid thirties and he sounded good at first but then hit me with this, "dude I'm just looking for a chill job where Idont haver to do too much work. I just want to hangout at work then party on the weekends."
I just couldn't believe these guys were speaking to me like this during an interview. Maybe they felt comfortable because I'm not a native Korean but maybe they were just complete morons. I'm thinking about changing professions, I'm going to be a life coach and teach these idiots how not to screw up a job interview! |
  So you came on to here complaining about the quality of teachers but admit you were interviewing people with NO experience and obviously then no suitability to teach English?
Mate - you got exactly what you deserved. You'll get exactly what you deserve if you hire somebody with no experience. I personally know and know of thru friends about experienced teachers with E-2 visa docs who are getting messed around by recruiters and can't get interviews with schools.
You don't want good teachers with experience? Good, may you get the dregs and may you get the consequences of your behaviour back in your face when they can't teach. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| big_fella1 wrote: |
| As far as the OP I really believe that many people fall for the "news channels" the economy is a disaster talk. |
In America:
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| The current unemployment rate for those with a college degree is at 3.7 percent, but the rate is much higher for those with only a high school diploma or GED at 8.1 percent. |
College grads have half the unemployment rate of high school grads; also, whites have half the unemployment rate of blacks (true!). Might be some relevant information.
OR you can tell yourself, "College degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on", but that's a pretty piss poor attitude to have considering how much blood, sweat, and tears was spent to get the degree. (Add 100k for four years of lost wages in addition to how much money you spent to attend the university.) Degrees are worth something. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| J Rock wrote: |
| I have to say it's mostly the economy but a little part of me thinks the caliber of teachers who apply is now lower. |
Are you serious?
TEFL has always been full of idiots, pedophiles, the criminal and mentally unstable - Korea even more so than any other location.
Or has the caliber of Korean managers and hogwan owners sunk to new lows? |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
| J Rock wrote: |
Times are a changing, back in the good old days when I started '06 I had to contact one recuiter and he lined me up with a job that I started 1.5 months later. I had to be at the school maybe 6 hours a day tops, boss never bothered me, and I was never cheated on money.
Now it seems like people are contacting 20 recuitrs, multiple interviews, have to get Glamour Shots taken to send to the school, working hours of 9:00AM-7:00PM and are being cheated out of money.
I have to say it's mostly the economy but a little part of me thinks the caliber of teachers who apply is now lower. I had to interview a couple prospective teachers for our school the other day and the first was a kid straight out of college and he actually told me "uh this sucks so bad, I can't find a job anywhere so I guess I have to do this."
The next guy was maybe mid thirties and he sounded good at first but then hit me with this, "dude I'm just looking for a chill job where Idont haver to do too much work. I just want to hangout at work then party on the weekends."
I just couldn't believe these guys were speaking to me like this during an interview. Maybe they felt comfortable because I'm not a native Korean but maybe they were just complete morons. I'm thinking about changing professions, I'm going to be a life coach and teach these idiots how not to screw up a job interview! |
So you came on to here complaining about the quality of teachers but admit you were interviewing people with NO experience and obviously then no suitability to teach English?
Mate - you got exactly what you deserved. You'll get exactly what you deserve if you hire somebody with no experience. You don't want good teachers with experience? Good, may you get the dregs and may you get the consequences of your behaviour back in your face when they can't teach. |
And this is what surprises me. No one is harder on foreigners in Korea than other foreigners. Yet very rarely will anyone here point out that it is the Koreans who insist on hiring young, inexperienced, unproven Canadians, Americans, etc., sight unseen.
The blame and responsibility for any problems rests squarely on the Korean government and Korean business owners who purposely hire such people. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| big_fella1 wrote: |
I married for love but trust me when you're making 6-7 million a month we're talking revenue not income. I'm not saying that there aren't successful people but 7 million in revenue does not equal 7 million in income.
Unlike the E2s expenses include national insurance, pension or retirement allowance, income protection insurance, housing, a decent car, insurance, gas, tolls, parking, a home office, your phone, decent clothing, books, and materials. As with any business some people are better at controlling expenses than others but before they come on here boasting they should keep in mind I'm arguing for higher pay and less people doing extra work.
As far as the OP I really believe that many people fall for the "news channels" the economy is a disaster talk. I'm Aussie so our economy is great but I had a friend who decided to get a job in the US recently, it took her a month. Another friend returned to Canada and had a job in 3 days. Finally a friend returned to Ireland and they're working.
Now graduates you are not going to walk into a management position because you studied business. I'm sorry to break this to you. You start at the bottom and work your way up, and I'm sorry if you incurred a lot of debt to get your degree but this doesn't make you more valueable than the person that worked, scrimped and saved to minimise their debt when they graduated.
In the past Korea was a way to party and repay debt and avoid undignified work for another year. Now it's become a career option because some people didn't want to work their way through college and can't face starting at the bottom now.
Hence there are more people prepared to come here even on their own dollar and with hagwons shutting down there are more people available to replace the runner. |
If you're from the Maritimes, there was no work to be had. Chronic high unemployment. Loans only way to finance and Korea flight only way out. But coming on your dime when others are still willing to pay is not a worthwhile risk. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
| J Rock wrote: |
Times are a changing, back in the good old days when I started '06 I had to contact one recuiter and he lined me up with a job that I started 1.5 months later. I had to be at the school maybe 6 hours a day tops, boss never bothered me, and I was never cheated on money.
Now it seems like people are contacting 20 recuitrs, multiple interviews, have to get Glamour Shots taken to send to the school, working hours of 9:00AM-7:00PM and are being cheated out of money.
I have to say it's mostly the economy but a little part of me thinks the caliber of teachers who apply is now lower. I had to interview a couple prospective teachers for our school the other day and the first was a kid straight out of college and he actually told me "uh this sucks so bad, I can't find a job anywhere so I guess I have to do this."
The next guy was maybe mid thirties and he sounded good at first but then hit me with this, "dude I'm just looking for a chill job where Idont haver to do too much work. I just want to hangout at work then party on the weekends."
I just couldn't believe these guys were speaking to me like this during an interview. Maybe they felt comfortable because I'm not a native Korean but maybe they were just complete morons. I'm thinking about changing professions, I'm going to be a life coach and teach these idiots how not to screw up a job interview! |
So you came on to here complaining about the quality of teachers but admit you were interviewing people with NO experience and obviously then no suitability to teach English?
Mate - you got exactly what you deserved. You'll get exactly what you deserve if you hire somebody with no experience. I personally know and know of thru friends about experienced teachers with E-2 visa docs who are getting messed around by recruiters and can't get interviews with schools.
You don't want good teachers with experience? Good, may you get the dregs and may you get the consequences of your behaviour back in your face when they can't teach. |
Well, Mr. Earth, I suggest you PM him some of your friends resumes. Done. I wish all my days were this easy.... |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
| TEFL has always been full of idiots, pedophiles, the criminal and mentally unstable - Korea even more so than any other location. |
Wow. I just saw the following online (and I think I agree with you).
| Quote: |
Come to Korea if: you're unemployed, or barely scraping by in working poverty. Doesn't matter the why, doesn't matter the how. These are the people, who have been heard from already in this thread, and who once included myself, who will have the easiest time dealing with Korea's ample supply of BS. If you are amply remunerated for little work, as I am, all the better.
If what you really care about is 'culture' and various other notions related to quality of life, go to China, Thailand, the Middle East, Latin America or anywhere but here. Better food, better landscape, better cultures, better music, better cities, better languages, better everything. Don't put up with this dump of a country for ANY reason besides shovelfuls of won. That's the only reason ANYONE stays. Well, except the unfortunate souls who have chosen to yoke themselves to Koreans.
If you have a proper professional job in your home country, well, you wouldn't be reading this forum, would you? Only people at the ends of their ropes at home, or staring bottom-of-the-barrel failure dead in the face, even THINK about teaching ESL, and ESPECIALLY in Korea. We all know this, don't we? |
and
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| I do have to wonder about some of the people that have posted here about being happier in Korea because they weren't able to make friends back home or handle some of the things from their everyday lives. I don't think you can put all of that on just your home country; you have to take some of that for yourself as well. Maybe it's just that you've struggled to make friends because you don't have proper socialization skills or proper coping mechanisms to deal with the stresses of school, finding an apartment and paying your own bills. I do realize that a lot of that comes from your parenting and upbringing, so it's not like I'm blaming anyone. I just always appreciate the ability to look inward first when looking for answers to why things aren't working. |
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