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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
I agree with the Captain. the blackmailing of the South by the North has to be stopped. the Sunshine policy has led to this.
Today the Japanese announced they are expanding their defense forces. |
I think Japan is doing it more due to China than North Korea. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Originally the US wanted the south because it formed a buffer to protect their main economic partner japan, mostly from the russians.
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Pre-WWII Japan was the 'main economic partner' of the US? Really? Someone has been hiding something from me...and the rest of the world.
The Chinese comment about withdrawing aid is interesting. A real threat? Don't know. An attempt to defuse tensions with the US? Don't know. A shot across the bow to let the Norks know that the Chinese realize that if the Norks can threaten the US, they sure as heck can threaten a whole-lot-closer China? Don't know.
Anyway, interesting development. Too soon to know the ramifications, but worth paying attention to. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:04 am Post subject: |
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The extensive use (up to the recent past at least) of Chinese characters in several Asian countries, is evidence that China has had heavy influence in Asia. Granted the last 130 years, or so, has seen Japan emerge as a power.
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| And blaming the US for a war between Asian countries? WTF? Really?? Give me a break... |
Previous Asian wars have been partially due to American miscalculations. What makes you think it won't happen again?
Don't know why so many of you guys continue to think Japan will remain a power. Their population is aging and probably will shrink, kind of like what will happen to Korea. At best Japan will be a middle power, and will see their influence wane. China isn't going to start a war. If there is going to be one it's going to be from missteps from countries like the US or Russia. But I personally don't see a major war happening in the region in my life, or my grandchildrens' lifetime. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Japan historically wasn't a power, it's only since the Meiji Restoration that Japan really became a power that could keep China's ambitions at bay (that's 1870-ish). |
Actually by the 1590's japan fielded the largest regular army in Asia (200.000) -twice that of China- and also had the most powerful navy. They overran the Korean peninsula twice.
His armies took on both Korea's and China's and held them to a stalemate. They only withdrew due to the death of their emperor.
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| Historically China was the only power. |
Uhh....Mongols.. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Japan historically wasn't a power, it's only since the Meiji Restoration that Japan really became a power that could keep China's ambitions at bay (that's 1870-ish). |
Actually by the 1590's japan fielded the largest regular army in Asia (200.000) -twice that of China- and also had the most powerful navy. They overran the Korean peninsula twice.
His armies took on both Korea's and China's and held them to a stalemate. They only withdrew due to the death of their emperor. |
Japan was just unified a decade before and the two invasions bankrupted them and China. Japan shut their doors until an American Commodore decided to force them to reopen.
| nautilus wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Historically China was the only power. |
Uhh....Mongols.. |
Ok, the Mongols and Manchurians. Both took the leadership of China and interestingly both were largely absorbed by the Chinese. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:48 am Post subject: |
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My guess is that if Japan had successfully taken over China in the 1590's, their culture would have eventually also been absorbed by China.
| jvalmer wrote: |
| nautilus wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Japan historically wasn't a power, it's only since the Meiji Restoration that Japan really became a power that could keep China's ambitions at bay (that's 1870-ish). |
Actually by the 1590's japan fielded the largest regular army in Asia (200.000) -twice that of China- and also had the most powerful navy. They overran the Korean peninsula twice.
His armies took on both Korea's and China's and held them to a stalemate. They only withdrew due to the death of their emperor. |
Japan was just unified a decade before and the two invasions bankrupted them and China. Japan shut their doors until an American Commodore decided to force them to reopen.
| nautilus wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Historically China was the only power. |
Uhh....Mongols.. |
Ok, the Mongols and Manchurians. Both took the leadership of China and interestingly both were largely absorbed by the Chinese. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Not on topic. In WWII many Japanese generals and politicians were worried that the troops were becoming more like the Chinese. I put this down to Chinese stubborness for one thing. But China does have a history of changing invaders into Chinese, Mongols and Manchus being prime examples.
I also do not see a war on the horizon. this has been a long period of peace and stability for north Asia. The results a rich China, Japan and South korea. Most of this is due to the influence of the United States.
i really do not know what war that the United States started in Asia due to misinformation. the Korean war started after Kim got the go ahead from mao and Stalin to invade the South. WWII in Asia started with the Japnese invasion of China.
What war??? |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| I also do not see a war on the horizon. this has been a long period of peace and stability for north Asia. The results a rich China, Japan and South korea. Most of this is due to the influence of the United States. |
There is already a significant wealth gap in China's class structure. It's not a destabilizing force now because the poor and new middle class continue to grow and become more prosperous. But once China's unsustainable growth stops, these groups may get angry. The significant surplus of men (30 million more men than women in 2020, according to Wikipedia) doesn't make things any calmer.
But governments don't want that anger pointed at them, so they direct it elsewhere. If the country with arguably the freest information in the world can be lead to war on emotions and false pretenses, I sincerely doubt that the Chinese government would have difficulty in doing the same. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| If the country with arguably the freest information in the world can be lead to war on emotions and false pretenses, I sincerely doubt that the Chinese government would have difficulty in doing the same. |
I want to digress momentarily. Your correct point that if the Chinese government actually wanted war it could enact one aside, I think the relationship between free information and deception is not the one implied here. Quite the opposite, I would argue that free flow of information actually enables and empowers deception, because if the deceiver is the loudest voice in an otherwise free stream of information, it gives the illusion of his message having triumphed in the "marketplace of ideas," and once the concept of truth has been eroded in favor of perspective and opinion, that's (unfortunately) all that matters for most people. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Fox is making a good point and he mentioned the thirty million young unmarried males in china.
Because of the one child polcy there is a big stock of young men who will never marry, there is no woman for them this creates a huge pool of testosterone. Deadly stuff, young ftustrated males with no relief, no gentling partner to come home to.
yeah China is a powder keg. the chinese are notoriously difficult to govern. Their history is one of revolts, civil wars. this period from Tienamen to now is the most peacful in almsost two hundred years. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
i really do not know what war that the United States started in Asia due to misinformation. the Korean war started after Kim got the go ahead from mao and Stalin to invade the South. WWII in Asia started with the Japnese invasion of China.
What war??? |
The Korean War and Vietnam War.
Granted US hasn't outright started wars on their own, but has been a key player in a series of events that have triggered war. But I guess they don't teach American students the 'little' things that can help start wars.
At the end of WWII the Japanese were withdrawing, and at the same time Americans were taking their troops out of Korea. Stalin interpreted this as the US not being interested in Korea and sent his troops into Korea, the Americans started freaking and told him to stop at the 38th parallel. Therefore causing the division of Korea. And a power vacuum and a divided country will get people trying to unify it.
Then there is the Vietnam War. The US took the place of the French in a country already in a midst of an independence movement. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Nope wrong it was the French in Vietnam and the Russians Chinese and North koreans in the korean war.
Yes those ole stupid Americans who what is it have 170 of the top two hundred universities in the world.
heres a word for you. Library!! |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
At the end of WWII the Japanese were withdrawing, and at the same time Americans were taking their troops out of Korea. Stalin interpreted this as the US not being interested in Korea and sent his troops into Korea, the Americans started freaking and told him to stop at the 38th parallel. Therefore causing the division of Korea. And a power vacuum and a divided country will get people trying to unify it. |
To blame the U.S. for the Korean War has always been a facile enterprise. But I've never seen it so lamely stated. Stalin interpreted American WITHDRAWAL as an act of weakness, tells Kim Il Sung to invade, and it's America's fault somehow?
You're right about Vietnam, though. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
At the end of WWII the Japanese were withdrawing, and at the same time Americans were taking their troops out of Korea. Stalin interpreted this as the US not being interested in Korea and sent his troops into Korea, the Americans started freaking and told him to stop at the 38th parallel. Therefore causing the division of Korea. And a power vacuum and a divided country will get people trying to unify it. |
To blame the U.S. for the Korean War has always been a facile enterprise. But I've never seen it so lamely stated. Stalin interpreted American WITHDRAWAL as an act of weakness, tells Kim Il Sung to invade, and it's America's fault somehow?
You're right about Vietnam, though. |
Yes and no. He is right in his follow-up but not his original statement. It wasn't due to misinformation. It was a couple US presidents being stubborn and ignoring common sense. There was no "misinformation". It was simply the US becoming more and more involved in a country it should not have become involved in to begin with. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Japan historically wasn't a power, it's only since the Meiji Restoration that Japan really became a power that could keep China's ambitions at bay (that's 1870-ish). |
Actually by the 1590's japan fielded the largest regular army in Asia (200.000) -twice that of China- and also had the most powerful navy. They overran the Korean peninsula twice.
His armies took on both Korea's and China's and held them to a stalemate. They only withdrew due to the death of their emperor.
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Slight correction: due to the death of Hideyoshi, who wasn't emperor (who was no more than a political symbol for almost all of Japan's history). |
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