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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Jimskins wrote: |
I'm not knocking online degrees, but imagine the hiring board at xxx University. 2007, they have 8 positions to fill and 13 of the candidates have MAs almost all earned onsite(same as usual).Fast foward to 2013, 8 positions again, but this time they have 60 candidates with MAs, 50 of whiich are online. |
If everyone got online degrees the universities would have to close.
On-campus studies is where the money is. There is a strong impetus for the educational establishment to uphold on-site study as being better.
Online degrees may be worthwhile if you're trying to profit from your brand name in faraway countries that either have no, or very inferior further education options. Otherwise everyone knows that physically going to uni marks you out as better.
Anyone can get an online degree cheaply. That lowers its value. The fact that you have physically been to university says a lot more about you being from the right background. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Jimskins wrote: |
I think the problem is that because of the global economic crisis , in Korea in the past two or three years there has been an explosion in the number of people with MAs, 99% of which are online. The kind of diligent types with hard-earned but essentially unmarketable degrees who thought "bugger,can't go home now, so better get serious about TEFL." Although I teach at a uni, all my friends teach at public schools and all bar 1 have or are completing online MA TESOLs because they know how bad their prospects are in the UK.
I'm not knocking online degrees, but imagine the hiring board at xxx University. 2007, they have 8 positions to fill and 13 of the candidates have MAs almost all earned onsite(same as usual).Fast foward to 2013, 8 positions again, but this time they have 60 candidates with MAs, 50 of whiich are online.
You can kind of see why there might be a stigma attached to online MAs, again , even if unfairly. |
If the degrees are earned from reputable brick and mortar schools, as opposed to those quasi-degree mills in the US, none should and will care. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
I can also add my personal experience....
Nobody has ever asked whether any components of any of my graduate credentials / degrees (and I hold 3 (MA, MBA, ABD) were on-line or otherwise (they were all on campus).
They (potential employers) have asked about my theses, publications, seminar and workshop presentations ... practical experience/expertise in my fields (I cross over into a couple) and references.
My personal opinion (not that you asked) is that you should choose a a field of study based on YOUR interests (you are working to become an "expert" in that field) and YOUR intended career path rather than getting something then hoping to find a career it might fit into.
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Yes and yes.
I did my dissertation on a topic which has fascinated me for as long as I can remember. Not only was my research groundbreaking, it brought into question the findings of other similar research as I found flaws in the approach. Boring stuff to anyone but me, no doubt.
Further research and publications can wait. Parenthood, work, and business investments are far too time consuming to allocate any energy to that. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Jimskins wrote: |
I think the problem is that because of the global economic crisis , in Korea in the past two or three years there has been an explosion in the number of people with MAs, 99% of which are online. The kind of diligent types with hard-earned but essentially unmarketable degrees who thought "bugger,can't go home now, so better get serious about TEFL." Although I teach at a uni, all my friends teach at public schools and all bar 1 have or are completing online MA TESOLs because they know how bad their prospects are in the UK.
I'm not knocking online degrees, but imagine the hiring board at xxx University. 2007, they have 8 positions to fill and 13 of the candidates have MAs almost all earned onsite(same as usual).Fast foward to 2013, 8 positions again, but this time they have 60 candidates with MAs, 50 of whiich are online.
You can kind of see why there might be a stigma attached to online MAs, again , even if unfairly. |
If the degrees are earned from reputable brick and mortar schools, as opposed to those quasi-degree mills in the US, none should and will care. |
This is true. In my earlier post where I was critical of the online degree holders that I've interviewed, I was speaking to Phoenix/DeVry/etc. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| To an employer, what counts most is the ranking of the school and your transcripts. Don't expect some on-campus MA from a poorly ranked school to ever trump a distance education degree from a very well ranked one. |
You'd be hard pressed to find a uni which Koreans deem as "reputable" (oxford, cambridge, ivy league, top state schools like UCLA, Berkeley etc) that offers complete MAs online. The reason being it would bring down the rep of the school. Everyone knows these distance programs don't have the most rigorous admissions criteria ( no writing sample, GRE etc..)...All you have to do is have an undergrad and pony up the cash. Schools like Birmingham, Nottingham, although great schools for us, are for Koreans just run of the mill unis rep wise, the same unis on the resumes of the fast majority of applicants.
Uni rep only comes into play if your uni is sky high above the avg institution. I attended Desautels at McGill for my undergrad and it didn't even raise an eyebrow ( not that I was expecting it to) . If it had been Cambridge, Yale or UCLA however.... |
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jeremydc808
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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I am in the middle of applying to a graduate school via online. I've searched for the past month 1/2 looking for a decent online school. There are many online masters but I wanted one that would lead to an actual teaching license and would allow me to take all tests in SK.
It came down to USC and a Texas state school. USC wanted $80,000+ For a MA TESOL. The not well known Texas school wanted $13,000 for the M.Ed Curriculum and Instruction with a generalist Grade 4-8th teaching certification. They said it would be an extra 4 grand to have a supervisor in SK and to take all teaching tests here. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Jimskins wrote: |
I'm not knocking online degrees, but imagine the hiring board at xxx University. 2007, they have 8 positions to fill and 13 of the candidates have MAs almost all earned onsite(same as usual).Fast foward to 2013, 8 positions again, but this time they have 60 candidates with MAs, 50 of whiich are online. |
If everyone got online degrees the universities would have to close.
On-campus studies is where the money is. There is a strong impetus for the educational establishment to uphold on-site study as being better.
Online degrees may be worthwhile if you're trying to profit from your brand name in faraway countries that either have no, or very inferior further education options. Otherwise everyone knows that physically going to uni marks you out as better.
Anyone can get an online degree cheaply. That lowers its value. The fact that you have physically been to university says a lot more about you being from the right background. |
I really don't think that you've looked at this issue. I pay the same fees as on-campus students at my university, the only difference is textbooks are included for distance students, but on-campus students pay for them separately. My degree is $50k for an Australian student and $70k for a non-Australian student. Not pocket change, and not something that anyone from the "wrong" background is likely to pay, whatever that means and however it's relevant.
The reason I would want to be on-campus, is that it's easier. Go sit in a lecture and hopefully remember enough of what the lecturer said during the lectures to pass the subject. Whereas an off-campus student actually has to study independently to even get basic knowledge. We are subject to the same assessment as on-campus students and the same grading criteria at my university in any event.
What is lowering the value of all degrees is the fact that study has become easier yet standards haven't increased. I can now find journals from around the world from my desktop without entering a library and physically spending hours finding articles, these hours saved should equal more research for every paper, sadly this isn't the situation. A PhD thesis used to be 120,000 words, yet today some PhDs are producing a thesis of barely 80,000 words.
Universities are selling degrees that upon successful completion lead to permanent residency rather than focusing on leading to further scholarship or employment.
Distance learning from a bricks and mortar university with the same standards as on-campus students is more difficult than studying on-campus which is why there will still be a need for campuses in the future. The fact that young people need to meet partners won't hurt either.  |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| Quote: |
| To an employer, what counts most is the ranking of the school and your transcripts. Don't expect some on-campus MA from a poorly ranked school to ever trump a distance education degree from a very well ranked one. |
You'd be hard pressed to find a uni which Koreans deem as "reputable" (oxford, cambridge, ivy league, top state schools like UCLA, Berkeley etc) that offers complete MAs online. The reason being it would bring down the rep of the school. Everyone knows these distance programs don't have the most rigorous admissions criteria ( no writing sample, GRE etc..)...All you have to do is have an undergrad and pony up the cash. Schools like Birmingham, Nottingham, although great schools for us, are for Koreans just run of the mill unis rep wise, the same unis on the resumes of the fast majority of applicants.
Uni rep only comes into play if your uni is sky high above the avg institution. I attended Desautels at McGill for my undergrad and it didn't even raise an eyebrow ( not that I was expecting it to) . If it had been Cambridge, Yale or UCLA however.... |
McGill is an odd one. Applying to jobs in Taiwan, it definitely got noticed. Applying to jobs in Korea, people were largely clueless. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this, if any. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| misher wrote: |
| Quote: |
| To an employer, what counts most is the ranking of the school and your transcripts. Don't expect some on-campus MA from a poorly ranked school to ever trump a distance education degree from a very well ranked one. |
You'd be hard pressed to find a uni which Koreans deem as "reputable" (oxford, cambridge, ivy league, top state schools like UCLA, Berkeley etc) that offers complete MAs online. The reason being it would bring down the rep of the school. Everyone knows these distance programs don't have the most rigorous admissions criteria ( no writing sample, GRE etc..)...All you have to do is have an undergrad and pony up the cash. Schools like Birmingham, Nottingham, although great schools for us, are for Koreans just run of the mill unis rep wise, the same unis on the resumes of the fast majority of applicants.
Uni rep only comes into play if your uni is sky high above the avg institution. I attended Desautels at McGill for my undergrad and it didn't even raise an eyebrow ( not that I was expecting it to) . If it had been Cambridge, Yale or UCLA however.... |
McGill is an odd one. Applying to jobs in Taiwan, it definitely got noticed. Applying to jobs in Korea, people were largely clueless. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this, if any. |
I guess a majority of McGill graduates do not end up in Korea. 
Seriously though perhaps McGill hasn't targeted Korea or more likely, Koreans have focused on the Ivy League in the past. Harvard has better brand recognition here than Oxford or Cambridge, as for Australian National University, the word National is recognised by Koreans to mean cheap and good but ANU isn't recognised as a world leading uni well top 100 anyway.
Last edited by big_fella1 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:18 am Post subject: |
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OP, I'll be doing my MSc in Sweden starting in August this year (for two years), not just because it is free for me, but because I think an on-campus degree holds more weight than an online degree. I don't intend to ever teach again though, so I really don't care whether or not the degree has any worth in Korea.
Korea is mainly for the political science, English lit and philosophy majors in any case, so any old degree is okay, online or not, for working in Korea. |
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fezmond
Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:15 am Post subject: |
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What's the deal with Walden University?
I've a few friends who are doing their online masters in teaching or something similar in the hope that it will help them secure a uni position here.
Is it a legit uni or a degree-mill type place? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Note that there is still a stigma attached with online education, sometimes unfairly. |
An on-campus MA has legitimate advantages over online.
First up there's the socialisation. You're rubbing shoulders with like-minded students everyday and discussing the issues. You've immediate access to libraries of knowledge, you get direct supervision from experts in your field. |
Most of this is quite valid. Some is a bit of you miss understanding what a good online program can do (no offense). A good online program can offer direct supervision online through qualified tutors and profs. Most of research done today is done through online databases and repositories. A good online program will have access to tons of qualified experts and their material through a variety of means (podcasts, virtual classrooms, reading assignments...) and finally a good online program will allow for direct interaction between students and often to a sharing of knowledge with a more people that you could in a classroom.
Online Ed is not what it was 10 years ago, there are still crap programs offered out there but there are more and more outstanding ones that rival in-class residency programs in numerous fields. Some deliver what is called blended learning (best of both worlds in my opinion) which means part online, part in class.
Still, online Ed is mostly useful for adult professionals who wish to upgrade and who do not have the time to drop work and register in an inflexible in-class program. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| fezmond wrote: |
What's the deal with Walden University?
I've a few friends who are doing their online masters in teaching or something similar in the hope that it will help them secure a uni position here.
Is it a legit uni or a degree-mill type place? |
It's accredited, but being that it is a for-profit online American university, tuition is higher than it should be. Moreover, it's online graduate education program is not particularly well-ranked amongst similar programs in the US.
http://www.usnews.com/education/online-education/education/rankings?page=4
With that said, I recommend you look at well-ranked Canadian and British universities that offer distance learning programs. You'll get better value for your money. Aston and Birmingham in the UK are two popular ones. |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Has anyone with an on-line MA in TESL/Linguistics ever been interviewed by a reputable university back in the states or the UK for a teaching job?
I would be interested to know what the response what like. Snickers I would guess. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Paddycakes wrote: |
Has anyone with an on-line MA in TESL/Linguistics ever been interviewed by a reputable university back in the states or the UK for a teaching job?
I would be interested to know what the response what like. Snickers I would guess. |
I wouldn't put online programs in the same pot as distance learning programs, although some people seem to be using the terms interchangeably. |
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