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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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 Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| Kiwigoddess wrote: |
| CentralCali thats exactly what I was thinking as far as the MP goes. I am not answerable to them and would tell them to get bent. |
of course you are not answerable to them..and they don't demand to see your ID either..they ask for it...
if you're a bonehead who thinks...I don't have to show them squat diddy poo and tell them to screw off...then you have just invited a minor inconvenience for yourself...because they will detain you until a korean cop shows up and then of course you will show your ID.
And then if you choose to fight them while they detain you...you won't win.
The korean cops WILL side with the MP's...
the MP's have no idea if you are non military related or not. You could look like a bum and have a spouse who is active duty...they just want to verify if you are affiliated with USFK or not.
Same thing in the states....MP's/Shore Patrol work the off base areas as well and ask for ID.
Big difference is...you don't show your ID...you have really jammed yourself up cause the local cops will of course side with the MP's and run your name, etc...search you, your car..whatever... here in korea...the cops won't run a background check for failing to show your ID to them or getting sassy with them. Get sassy with the man in the states...and you loose. I think it's the same in many other English speaking countries also...get sassy with the man...and....
for me..it's just easy to show my ARC card and be on my way! Takes all of 10 seconds...if that. |
You don't have a clue what you're talking about. |
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peachKitten713
Joined: 13 May 2013
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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When I used to be asked for ID at Korean clubs, I would just show them my US ID and it was never an issue.
Hmm but I'm going to be coming to Korea soon and the hiring guy/head teacher I've been in contact with told me it can take about 3 weeks to get the ARC... So I hope that doesn't mean I won't be able to go into bars/clubs until then... Since I don't have a state ID now and I'm not sure I want to carry my passport around all the time since I don't want to lose it/ get it stolen. :/ |
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BigBuds
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Location: Changwon
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| 12 years in Korea and never once have I been asked for ID at a bar/nightclub/casino/etc? |
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Kiwigoddess
Joined: 07 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| Kiwigoddess wrote: |
| CentralCali thats exactly what I was thinking as far as the MP goes. I am not answerable to them and would tell them to get bent. |
of course you are not answerable to them..and they don't demand to see your ID either..they ask for it...
if you're a bonehead who thinks...I don't have to show them squat diddy poo and tell them to screw off...then you have just invited a minor inconvenience for yourself...because they will detain you until a korean cop shows up and then of course you will show your ID.
And then if you choose to fight them while they detain you...you won't win.
The korean cops WILL side with the MP's...
the MP's have no idea if you are non military related or not. You could look like a bum and have a spouse who is active duty...they just want to verify if you are affiliated with USFK or not.
Same thing in the states....MP's/Shore Patrol work the off base areas as well and ask for ID.
Big difference is...you don't show your ID...you have really jammed yourself up cause the local cops will of course side with the MP's and run your name, etc...search you, your car..whatever... here in korea...the cops won't run a background check for failing to show your ID to them or getting sassy with them. Get sassy with the man in the states...and you loose. I think it's the same in many other English speaking countries also...get sassy with the man...and....
for me..it's just easy to show my ARC card and be on my way! Takes all of 10 seconds...if that. |
oh FFS i dont have my ARC card yet and quit being a dropnutz |
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goreality
Joined: 09 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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MPs are often closely followed around by Korean police. You can refuse the MP but you must show the Korean cop and if you fail to produce it after annoying him, it may be hard to talk yourself out of the fine.
Some bar are also banned for GIs to visit. If the MP notice these places not asking for ID from people, specially foreigners, they will just enter the place and ID everyone a lot more often. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| goreality wrote: |
| MPs are often closely followed around by Korean police. |
Are you even remotely aware of how much drivel this statement of yours is? The Korean police, contrary to popular opinion, are busy doing other things related to their jobs. They don't have the time or resources to go around assisting the US military enforce something that's not a Korean law.
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| You can refuse the MP but you must show the Korean cop and if you fail to produce it after annoying him, it may be hard to talk yourself out of the fine. |
Korean police don't levy fines. Well, I suppose there may some who may solicit bribes (I haven't met any such,yet I won't discount the possiblity), but that's not the issue, now is it? And, if he's only zeroing in on me because I "look foreign" or "look like a GI," then he's not going to do so well at the trial. He'll have to arrest me. But that's moot--it's simply not going to happen--because, as noted above, you just made up that bit about the Korean police trailing around behind the foreign MPs. Note: KATUSA assigned as MP on base are not Korean police.
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| Some bar are also banned for GIs to visit. If the MP notice these places not asking for ID from people, specially foreigners, they will just enter the place and ID everyone a lot more often. |
I don't give a hoot what bars, clubs, laundromats, or any other enterprises that the servicemembers themselves have been banned from entering. That's simply not my problem. And the fact that they've been ordered to not frequent such esablishments does not magically create authority for a foreign MP to demand I present identifiction to determine if I am, in fact, under his authority.
Once again: I don't care what problems the US military have in enforcing their policies. They don't apply to me. They have no authority over me. I am not subject to them. Not even to their demand that I present identification.
Another nifty point for you: Korean law enforcement may only demand you present identification to them when in the lawful course of their duties. Demanding it from you just because you look foreign isn't valid jutification.
You don't know what you're talking about. Stop posting nonsense.
Last edited by CentralCali on Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
Once again: I don't care what problems the US military have in enforcing their policies. They don't apply to me. They have no authority over me. I am not subject to them. Not even to their demand that I present identification.
Another nifty point for you: Korean law enforcement may only demand you present identification to them when in the lawful course of their duties. Demanding it from you just because you look foreign isn't valid jutification. |
bang
bang
Right on both counts. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Another nifty point for you: Korean law enforcement may only demand you present identification to them when in the lawful course of their duties. Demanding it from you just because you look foreign isn't valid jutification. |
I am curious then...foreigners are legally required to have their ARC with them at all times. Wouldn't that then give the KNP grounds to check?
As for showing or not showing your IDs...I guess everyone can make their own decisions. Way back when (mid-nineties) I was always cool with the military police and showed ID (and eventually they go to know me). I was in line at the PX on base buying a bunch of stuff (with a GI friend) and standing behind us in line was one of the town patrol. I thought - Aw man...my friend is in BIG trouble. The MP saw the look on my face, smiled and said "Don't worry about it". They also stepped in once when I was having, er..., a disagreement with some drunken Koreans. The MPs didn't have to intervene, but they did because I was always cool to them. I asked them if they could get in trouble for helping me out, and they said "You looked American to me".
So, cooperation isn't always bad. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Another nifty point for you: Korean law enforcement may only demand you present identification to them when in the lawful course of their duties. Demanding it from you just because you look foreign isn't valid jutification. |
I am curious then...foreigners are legally required to have their ARC with them at all times. Wouldn't that then give the KNP grounds to check? |
No. Repeat this to yourself as though it's a mantra: "Looking foreign is not a crime." Here's your second manta: "Looking like a GI is not a crime." Got that? The copper has to have valid reason to suspect you are engaged in some offense to stop you or to search you (including demanding you present identification).
| Quote: |
| As for showing or not showing your IDs...I guess everyone can make their own decisions. Way back when (mid-nineties) I was always cool with the military police and showed ID (and eventually they go to know me). |
I'm kind of funny about being demanded that I prove my reasons for whatever I'm doing or being wherever I'm being by someone who has no business making such demands.
Once again: I don't care what problems the American military have in enforcing their policies which, of course, neither apply to me nor are they Korean law.
| Quote: |
| I was in line at the PX on base buying a bunch of stuff (with a GI friend) and standing behind us in line was one of the town patrol. I thought - Aw man...my friend is in BIG trouble. |
Actually, you both could've been in big trouble. Your friend would've been prosecuted under the UCMJ and you, to your chagrin, would've been prosecuted under Korean law. Fun, fun, fun!
| Quote: |
The MP saw the look on my face, smiled and said "Don't worry about it". They also stepped in once when I was having, er..., a disagreement with some drunken Koreans. The MPs didn't have to intervene, but they did because I was always cool to them. I asked them if they could get in trouble for helping me out, and they said "You looked American to me".
So, cooperation isn't always bad. |
Town Patrol or MP? They're not one and the same. At any rate, foreign military police/town patrol are not Korean law enforcement. Also, it doesn't matter that they were MP/TP/what-have-you, if someone were attacking you, what's wrong with helping you avert that attack? Now, if you were attacking the drunken Koreans (not saying you were) and they helped you out on that, that's a whole 'nuther story. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Another nifty point for you: Korean law enforcement may only demand you present identification to them when in the lawful course of their duties. Demanding it from you just because you look foreign isn't valid jutification. |
I am curious then...foreigners are legally required to have their ARC with them at all times. Wouldn't that then give the KNP grounds to check? |
No. Repeat this to yourself as though it's a mantra: "Looking foreign is not a crime." Here's your second manta: "Looking like a GI is not a crime." Got that? The copper has to have valid reason to suspect you are engaged in some offense to stop you or to search you (including demanding you present identification).
| Quote: |
| As for showing or not showing your IDs...I guess everyone can make their own decisions. Way back when (mid-nineties) I was always cool with the military police and showed ID (and eventually they go to know me). |
I'm kind of funny about being demanded that I prove my reasons for whatever I'm doing or being wherever I'm being by someone who has no business making such demands.
Once again: I don't care what problems the American military have in enforcing their policies which, of course, neither apply to me nor are they Korean law.
| Quote: |
| I was in line at the PX on base buying a bunch of stuff (with a GI friend) and standing behind us in line was one of the town patrol. I thought - Aw man...my friend is in BIG trouble. |
Actually, you both could've been in big trouble. Your friend would've been prosecuted under the UCMJ and you, to your chagrin, would've been prosecuted under Korean law. Fun, fun, fun!
| Quote: |
The MP saw the look on my face, smiled and said "Don't worry about it". They also stepped in once when I was having, er..., a disagreement with some drunken Koreans. The MPs didn't have to intervene, but they did because I was always cool to them. I asked them if they could get in trouble for helping me out, and they said "You looked American to me".
So, cooperation isn't always bad. |
Town Patrol or MP? They're not one and the same. At any rate, foreign military police/town patrol are not Korean law enforcement. Also, it doesn't matter that they were MP/TP/what-have-you, if someone were attacking you, what's wrong with helping you avert that attack? Now, if you were attacking the drunken Koreans (not saying you were) and they helped you out on that, that's a whole 'nuther story. |
Town patrol at that time were made up of USAF SPs (IIRC). I used the more widely known "MP" for those that wouldn't know SP, or even the newer designation of SF.
If (big IF) there were an altercation between a foreigner and Koreans, would they be allowed to step in and subdue the Koreans? My understanding is that they are (were) not. In fact, I watched them stand by while a Korean guy beat the crap out of a Korean woman one night. The Gs were going crazy telling them to intervene, but they could not. One summer they DID subdue a Korean (cuffed him too) and a near riot broke out.
Calm down, by the way. I was asking a sincere question. If you are legally required to have your ARC, it seems reasonable that Korean authorities have the right to enforce that, doesn't it? I may be incorrect, but it's not unreasonable.
I have a different way of dealing with the issue than you do - I never claimed it was better - just different. And that at times, there might be benefits to doing it a different way (like my friend NOT being prosecuted under the UCMJ).
No need to get douchey... |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| Calm down, by the way. |
I am, as always, perfectly calm.
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| I was asking a sincere question. |
I gave you a sincere--and accurate--answer.
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| If you are legally required to have your ARC, it seems reasonable that Korean authorities have the right to enforce that, doesn't it? I may be incorrect, but it's not unreasonable. |
Yes, Korean law enforcement does have the authority to enforce such a law. They still need to have a valid reason to approach you and demand that you present it. And for the umpteenth time, as posted by quite a few people over the years, "looking foreign" is not an offense. If I were engaged in some nefarious behavior and a copper stopped me for that, then he woud demand I present valid identification. If I were a tourist, I'd present my passport. If I were naturalized, I'd present my Korean national ID. If I were in Korea on a long-term visa, I'd present my ARC.
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| I have a different way of dealing with the issue than you do - I never claimed it was better - just different. And that at times, there might be benefits to doing it a different way (like my friend NOT being prosecuted under the UCMJ). |
Well, I kind of like the idea of the cops, of whatever persuasion, doing their jobs lawfully. And not involving me when I'm not under their jurisdiction.
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| No need to get douchey... |
Quaint. Get back to me after you learn some decent manners. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
I am, as always, perfectly calm.
I gave you a sincere--and accurate--answer.
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Calm - and condescending.
I'll see you at Manners School. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:45 am Post subject: |
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[quote="diver"]
| CentralCali wrote: |
I am, as always, perfectly calm.
I gave you a sincere--and accurate--answer.
Get back to me after you learn some decent manners.
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Calm - and condescending.
re: manners. You gotta give a little to get a little... |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Take your own advice. I wasn't rude and I wasn't condescending. AFAIC, you're just trolling now. I'm done with you. |
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AgentGhost
Joined: 21 Jul 2013
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: ARC required to enter bars? |
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| Kiwigoddess wrote: |
| I was just informed that for many bars we are required to present our ARC cards, is that correct? It seems rather bizarre to me. I have heard of "Korean only" bars not allowing foreigners in but bars only permissible if you show your ARC? Really? |
How popular are these "Korean only" bars ? how do you know which ones you can and cannot get access to? Are we talking like a big ass KOREANS ONLY sign on the front like civil rights action? or are we talking just walking up to the door only to get dismissed because your white. |
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