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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Paddycakes wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| The expat community in Korea is fractured too. It has several sub-groups. Some friendly and open, some...not so much! |
Hmmmm...
Let me speculate:
Juicy Bar Girls: Very friendly and open... for $20 a drink.
I'll let others chime in the various other groups and sub-groups. |
I did say the expat community right?
This is what this thread is discussion no? |
Juicy Bar girls are expats, too, at least the ones from the Philippines. |
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tideout
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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I've taught in four countries at this point. Two in Latin America and two in Asia.
The expats couldn't be more different.
While there may be a lot of partying going on in S. Korea I'd also have to say it seemed to be the least happy community of expats I'd experienced. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Paddycakes wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Paddycakes wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| The expat community in Korea is fractured too. It has several sub-groups. Some friendly and open, some...not so much! |
Hmmmm...
Let me speculate:
Juicy Bar Girls: Very friendly and open... for $20 a drink.
I'll let others chime in the various other groups and sub-groups. |
I did say the expat community right?
This is what this thread is discussion no? |
Juicy Bar girls are expats, too, at least the ones from the Philippines. |
That is true.
GIs too.
Engineers from France.
Bankers.
Corporate employees.
Teachers.
DDD workers.
All expats, all foreign workers (for the most part)...
hence..a fractured community. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| This is a Sydney Morning Herald article. Reading SMH used to make me very angry without knowing why, so I had to give that up. There's poison in them pens. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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I dunno. I never thought of myself as an "expat" in South Korea. I was more of an economic migrant. No company or government "expatriated" me to Korea for a foreign assignment.
Some here already dismissed Juicy bar girls as expats. Sorry if an Esl teacher trying to make ends meet because the home situation is grim is an "expat" then so are juicy bar girls and mexican farm labourers trying to make some coin in the USA to send home. I had much more in common with them than the manager, employed in the home country who is sent to a foreign subsidiary on an expat package ( usually quite good ). But hey that's just me. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
I dunno. I never thought of myself as an "expat" in South Korea. I was more of an economic migrant. No company or government "expatriated" me to Korea for a foreign assignment.
Some here already dismissed Juicy bar girls as expats. Sorry if an Esl teacher trying to make ends meet because the home situation is grim is an "expat" then so are juicy bar girls and mexican farm labourers trying to make some coin in the USA to send home. I had much more in common with them than the manager, employed in the home country who is sent to a foreign subsidiary on an expat package ( usually quite good ). But hey that's just me. |
Who dismissed juicy bar girls as expats?
Also you are right that the term expat may not be the right one to qualify foreign workers but it remains widely in use.
However, the only thing you and other foreign teachers share with a mexican farm hand working in the US or with a juicy bar girl from abroad is that you are foreign workers...not much else. Neither of them gets flown over and gets offered free housing for example and neither gets paid as well or has such an easy job. Just saying... |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Who dismissed juicy bar girls as expats?
Also you are right that the term expat may not be the right one to qualify foreign workers but it remains widely in use.
However, the only thing you and other foreign teachers share with a mexican farm hand working in the US or with a juicy bar girl from abroad is that you are foreign workers...not much else. Neither of them gets flown over and gets offered free housing for example and neither gets paid as well or has such an easy job. Just saying... |
Yeah ok, being a clown in front of brats or working splits at an adult hagwon is not the same as picking up a bolt in a factory. But that is besides the point. Not counting the 1-2 year 23 year old backpacker, lifers or "expats" are here primarily because of economic circumstances. Things at home are grim. That lumps us in with the farmhand from Mexico hired in Canada to pick fruit. Some of those 3d workers do get subsidized housing too so free tickets and a tiny one room ( that they just deduct from your salary so you actually are paying for it) are erroneous. Pay is also subjective. 3D worker pay is low because the value of that pay in their home country is A LOT and the K companies know this so they can get away with paying 4,000 krw an hour. Esl teachers are paid what they are paid because if it was any lower people wouldn't come as the minute savings wouldn't go too far back home where living costs are extremely high (uk etc). An expat will be paid their normal salary from their HOME country plus hardship pay plus cost of living adjustment all the while given accommodation that is reasonably equivalent to what they had in Canada US Europe, wherever.
Therefore using expatriate to lump all of us together is a little off. You certainly don't see Canadians calling Cambodian meat packers in Alberta "expatriates." They are called migrant workers, and we share MUCH MORE in common with them than the HSBC Financing Manager or SNC Lavalin structural engineer that gets sent to Korea for 3 years to work on/manage a few deals or projects and is then repatriated. I know esl teachers dont like the sound of it because saying expatriate sounds prestigous, but I was a migrant worker and they are no different than me. I came to Korea seeking better wages so I could send money home just like the Cambodian meat packer in Brooks Alberta. I wasn't given hardship pay or language training or "the same standard of living" one has in their home country. Expatriate has a prestigious connotation to it and it is used falsely when it comes to people like us IMO.
Conversation:
A) what do you do?
B) I'm an expatriate living in Japan
A) oh wow how exciting. Which MNC do you work for?
B) uh actually I work for AEON. It's an Education company.
A) oh so you're in education business?
B) well kinda, i work with kids
A) oh so your an English teacher.....
B)well yeah....
A)........
Saw this convo happen or versions of it quite a few times. I would have orefered to cut to the chase and just say im an economic migrant working as an esl teacher.
Last edited by misher on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| Quote: |
Who dismissed juicy bar girls as expats?
Also you are right that the term expat may not be the right one to qualify foreign workers but it remains widely in use.
However, the only thing you and other foreign teachers share with a mexican farm hand working in the US or with a juicy bar girl from abroad is that you are foreign workers...not much else. Neither of them gets flown over and gets offered free housing for example and neither gets paid as well or has such an easy job. Just saying... |
Yeah ok, being a clown in front of brats or working splits at an adult hagwon is not the same as picking up a bolt in a factory. But that is besides the point. Not counting the 1-2 year 23 year old backpacker, lifers or "expats" are here primarily because of economic circumstances. Things at home are grim. That lumps us in with the farmhand from Mexico hired in Canada to pick fruit. Some of those 3d workers do get subsidized housing too so free tickets and a tiny one room ( that they just deduct from your salary so you actually are paying for it) are erroneous. Pay is also subjective. 3D worker pay is low because the value of that pay in their home country is A LOT. Esl teachers are paid what they are paid because if it was any lower people wouldn't come as the minute savings would go to far back home where living costs are extremely high (uk etc). An expat will be paid their normal salary from their HOME country plus hardship pay plus cost of living adjustment all the while given accommodation that is reasonably equivalent to what they had in Canada US Europe, wherever.
Therefore using expatriate to lump all of us together is a little off. You certainly don't see Canadians calling Cambodian meat packers in Alberta "expatriates." They are called migrant workers, and we share MUCH MORE in common with them than the HSBC Financing Manager or SNC Lavalin structural engineer that gets sent to Korea for 3 years to work on/manage a few deals or projects and is then repatriated. I know esl teachers dont like the sound of it because saying expatriate sounds prestigous, but I was a migrant worker and they are no different than me. I came to Korea seeking better wages so I could send money home just like the Cambodian meat packer in Brooks Alberta. I wasn't given hardship pay or language training or "the same standard of living" one has in their home country. Expatriate has a prestigious connotation to it and it is used falsely when it comes to people like us IMO. |
An 'expat' in that sense would be someone on a two year secondment and then they return to wherever without a loss of employment, benefits, pay etc. I wouldn't class a soldier as part of an army of occupation as an 'expat' though.
I would go along with the notion that we are very very similar to Turkish 'Gasterbeiters' in Germany, in fact, I don't see much difference between an EFL teacher in South Korea and a 'Gasterbeiter' in fact, I would be very proud of being referred to as one. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:22 am Post subject: |
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An 'expat' in that sense would be someone on a two year secondment and then they return to wherever without a loss of employment, benefits, pay etc. I wouldn't class a soldier as part of an army of occupation as an 'expat' though.
I would go along with the notion that we are very very similar to Turkish 'Gasterbeiters' in Germany, in fact, I don't see much difference between an EFL teacher in South Korea and a 'Gasterbeiter' in fact, I would be very proud of being referred to as one. |
I could go along with that as well. Gasarbeiter is certainly more fitting although ironically die Turkische Gastarbeiter are not going back to Turkey anytime soon much to the chagrin of many Germans. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:25 am Post subject: |
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An 'expat' in that sense would be someone on a two year secondment and then they return to wherever without a loss of employment, benefits, pay etc. I wouldn't class a soldier as part of an army of occupation as an 'expat' though.
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But that is precisely my point. The connotation attached to expat is what you just described. NOT migrant 3d worker or esl teacher. Technically yes, any foreign worker is an expatriate but that is not what most think when they hear that word. |
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sluggo832004
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| alot of snarky people in this thread......... |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| sluggo832004 wrote: |
| alot of snarky people in this thread......... |
Nah, not so many snarky people; one perhaps. Who the hell cares whether you are considered an "expat" or not as an ESL teacher? I'm one and I've never given 2 $hits about that. I sincerely don't care if I meet the "expat" mold. I live a decent life where I am. What's the deal with dudes on here passively/aggressively ragging on crap like this anyway? |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:52 am Post subject: |
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I thought expat had something to do with sipping gin and tonics and being slightly shady. A halfway finished book adding gravitas.
Now it seems to have something to do with fortune 500 dreck being shipped around the globe to be masters of the universe.
My wife just came back from shopping with some Canada Club tonic water. Canada Club tonic water! Equilibrium is restored. back to the pool and the barbie. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| Quote: |
Who dismissed juicy bar girls as expats?
Also you are right that the term expat may not be the right one to qualify foreign workers but it remains widely in use.
However, the only thing you and other foreign teachers share with a mexican farm hand working in the US or with a juicy bar girl from abroad is that you are foreign workers...not much else. Neither of them gets flown over and gets offered free housing for example and neither gets paid as well or has such an easy job. Just saying... |
Yeah ok, being a clown in front of brats or working splits at an adult hagwon is not the same as picking up a bolt in a factory. But that is besides the point. Not counting the 1-2 year 23 year old backpacker, lifers or "expats" are here primarily because of economic circumstances. Things at home are grim. That lumps us in with the farmhand from Mexico hired in Canada to pick fruit. Some of those 3d workers do get subsidized housing too so free tickets and a tiny one room ( that they just deduct from your salary so you actually are paying for it) are erroneous. Pay is also subjective. 3D worker pay is low because the value of that pay in their home country is A LOT and the K companies know this so they can get away with paying 4,000 krw an hour. Esl teachers are paid what they are paid because if it was any lower people wouldn't come as the minute savings wouldn't go too far back home where living costs are extremely high (uk etc). An expat will be paid their normal salary from their HOME country plus hardship pay plus cost of living adjustment all the while given accommodation that is reasonably equivalent to what they had in Canada US Europe, wherever.
Therefore using expatriate to lump all of us together is a little off. You certainly don't see Canadians calling Cambodian meat packers in Alberta "expatriates." They are called migrant workers, and we share MUCH MORE in common with them than the HSBC Financing Manager or SNC Lavalin structural engineer that gets sent to Korea for 3 years to work on/manage a few deals or projects and is then repatriated. I know esl teachers dont like the sound of it because saying expatriate sounds prestigous, but I was a migrant worker and they are no different than me. I came to Korea seeking better wages so I could send money home just like the Cambodian meat packer in Brooks Alberta. I wasn't given hardship pay or language training or "the same standard of living" one has in their home country. Expatriate has a prestigious connotation to it and it is used falsely when it comes to people like us IMO.
Conversation:
A) what do you do?
B) I'm an expatriate living in Japan
A) oh wow how exciting. Which MNC do you work for?
B) uh actually I work for AEON. It's an Education company.
A) oh so you're in education business?
B) well kinda, i work with kids
A) oh so your an English teacher.....
B)well yeah....
A)........
Saw this convo happen or versions of it quite a few times. I would have orefered to cut to the chase and just say im an economic migrant working as an esl teacher. |
Out of all of this I agree with one thing completely, most foreigners in Korea are indeed migrant workers, much like mexican farm hands in the US. The similarity ends here for the most part in terms of lifes, conditions, reasons....
As for expat, in general terms you are right, that term can be mostly specific to people sent abroad by their employer: corporate employees, banking employees, military personnel...
All that being said, expat will stick as a term most people teaching abroad will use. |
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