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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Harpeau wrote: |
| Hitler was an idiot- a gifted orator, but still a moron. If ANY other person would have led the war strategy, the Nazis would have won. Wait 5 years before going to war- the Nazis would have won. Have only 1 battlefront, the Nazis would have one. Kept the Americans out... Hitler was a lobotomized idiot!! |
As far as going to war with America...Hitler had no choice. His ally Japan attacked America which resulted in America declaring war on Japan and then on Germany because Hitler was Japan's ally. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a bit baffled by this Axis thing. If Japan and Germany were "allies" it was an odd sort of alliance. Britain, Canada and the US were allies and they worked together for a common goal. An excellent example would be the D-Day invasion. In comparison, how did Japan and Germany coordinate their campaigns? When Hitler went into Russia from the West, surely Japan should have invaded from the East. That's the kind of planning that real allies engage in. They seemed to coordinate nothing together. Seems more like a simple non-aggression pact to me. "You take Asia and I'll take Europe." Which makes Hitler's declaration of war on America after Pearl Harbor baffling to me. It was, after all, Germany that declared war on America first, not the other way around. Why would any sane person do this? It gave Roosevelt the pass he needed to get into the European conflict. If Hitler hadn't declared war, America would still have gone after Japan, but it is questionable that Roosevelt would have been able to muster the support for going to war with Germany. After all, it didn't attack the States. And there were powerful voices in America, not least the German and Irish populations, who were opposed to America entering the fray. There was also a strong isolationist movement in the States. By declaring war on America Hitler swept this all away and gave Roosevelt the green light he wanted to enter the European conflict.
Stupid, stupid man. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| An interesting tidbit is that the US declared war Germany before declaring war on Japan. And the Soviets could bring their troops stationed in the East to the front against Germany since Japan was engaged with the US and the commonwealth forces in East Asia. And while Stalin started to listen to his generals more, Hitler was trying to micromanage things and ignore the pleas of his military commanders. He wasn't talented at playing war and he was surrounded by asskissers. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Saw a good documentary about how Hitler's medical treatment likely contributed towards his worsening judgement. He had serious gastric problems, stress-related issues and possibly syphilis on account of which his doctor was giving him regular large doses of amphetamines and morphine. This could go a large way to explaining the strategic blunders. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Saw a good documentary about how Hitler's medical treatment likely contributed towards his worsening judgement. He had serious gastric problems, stress-related issues and possibly syphilis on account of which his doctor was giving him regular large doses of amphetamines and morphine. This could go a large way to explaining the strategic blunders. |
Actually, I remember that documentary. Hitler the Junkie. (Doubt that's the original title.) I've the time so I'll give it another look this afternoon....Guess it would have been difficult to play chess with your hand shaking uncontrollably like that. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ_1Acw5I3Y |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:09 am Post subject: |
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Slightly off-topic, what year do you think that Hitler turns into a complete caricature?
When does he get "Napoleoned" or "Ghengis Khaned" and become a mascot for carpet stores and restaurants?
I'm guessing 2075. Figure by then, those that were brought up to be outraged over Hitler will be in significant decline, at which point the "Hitler the meme" generation will take over. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Saw a good documentary about how Hitler's medical treatment likely contributed towards his worsening judgement. He had serious gastric problems, stress-related issues and possibly syphilis on account of which his doctor was giving him regular large doses of amphetamines and morphine. This could go a large way to explaining the strategic blunders. |
Actually, I remember that documentary. Hitler the Junkie. (Doubt that's the original title.) I've the time so I'll give it another look this afternoon....Guess it would have been difficult to play chess with your hand shaking uncontrollably like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ_1Acw5I3Y |
High Hitler.  |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Slightly off-topic, what year do you think that Hitler turns into a complete caricature?
When does he get "Napoleoned" or "Ghengis Khaned" and become a mascot for carpet stores and restaurants?
I'm guessing 2075. Figure by then, those that were brought up to be outraged over Hitler will be in significant decline, at which point the "Hitler the meme" generation will take over. |
Hasn't it already in some aspects. More so in Asia than the west where Hitler and Nazism isn't as present in people's collective memory. |
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Slightly off-topic, what year do you think that Hitler turns into a complete caricature?
When does he get "Napoleoned" or "Ghengis Khaned" and become a mascot for carpet stores and restaurants?
I'm guessing 2075. Figure by then, those that were brought up to be outraged over Hitler will be in significant decline, at which point the "Hitler the meme" generation will take over. |
2003... at least that's when I saw it in Korea. |
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wintermute
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| I can somewhat understand Hitler not playing chess. I can even understand him actively disliking it. Sure it's important for long-term strategic planning, but that was not Hitler's gig. He placed everything on blitzkrieg. No gentlemanly "It's your move now" crap for him. He planned to move all his pieces at once before the other guy even sat down at the table. Chess, moreover, is about rules. Hitler had no time for those. Finally, Hitler's mentality was forged by WWI. The Germans were bogged down for four years in a war that Berlin thought would last a few weeks. In Hitler's war there would be no standing still. Chess is all about 'standing still' for long periods of time while you and your opponent planned your next moves. Hitler had his own rulebook about how the next war would go, and chess did not reflect that in any way. |
That reminds me of joining a chess club in the first or second year of elementary school. Not being aware of the fact that you can only take one piece at a time, I would make a few preliminary moves to get my rook into the open. On the next move, I would send it all the way across the board, taking the opponent's pawn and the piece behind it. When my opponent gave a confused "You can't...", I would say, "My next move:", and triumphantly plough the rook down his entire back row for the win!
I guess great minds think alike  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
I'm a bit baffled by this Axis thing. If Japan and Germany were "allies" it was an odd sort of alliance. Britain, Canada and the US were allies and they worked together for a common goal. An excellent example would be the D-Day invasion. In comparison, how did Japan and Germany coordinate their campaigns? When Hitler went into Russia from the West, surely Japan should have invaded from the East. That's the kind of planning that real allies engage in. They seemed to coordinate nothing together. Seems more like a simple non-aggression pact to me. "You take Asia and I'll take Europe." Which makes Hitler's declaration of war on America after Pearl Harbor baffling to me. It was, after all, Germany that declared war on America first, not the other way around. Why would any sane person do this? It gave Roosevelt the pass he needed to get into the European conflict. If Hitler hadn't declared war, America would still have gone after Japan, but it is questionable that Roosevelt would have been able to muster the support for going to war with Germany. After all, it didn't attack the States. And there were powerful voices in America, not least the German and Irish populations, who were opposed to America entering the fray. There was also a strong isolationist movement in the States. By declaring war on America Hitler swept this all away and gave Roosevelt the green light he wanted to enter the European conflict.
Stupid, stupid man. |
This might clear up a few things
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/germany-declares-war-on-the-united-states
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Von Ribbentrop feared that the addition of another antagonist, the United States, would overwhelm the German war effort.
But Hitler thought otherwise. He was convinced that the United States would soon beat him to the punch and declare war on Germany. The U.S. Navy was already attacking German U-boats, and Hitler despised Roosevelt for his repeated verbal attacks against his Nazi ideology. He also believed that Japan was much stronger than it was, that once it had defeated the United States, it would turn and help Germany defeat Russia. |
And it wasn't a simple non-aggression pact...each country was bound to help the other if said other was attacked. So if the U.S had attacked Japan (which it did eventually) Germany would have had no choice but to declare war anyway. |
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Gravity Wins
Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Location: Suwon
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
An interesting tidbit is that the US declared war Germany before declaring war on Japan.
And the Soviets could bring their troops stationed in the East to the front against Germany since Japan was engaged with the US and the commonwealth forces in East Asia. And while Stalin started to listen to his generals more, Hitler was trying to micromanage things and ignore the pleas of his military commanders. He wasn't talented at playing war and he was surrounded by asskissers. |
Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941.
The US declared war on Japan on Dec 8, 1941.
Germany and Italy declared war on the US on Dec 11, 1941.
The US declared war on Germany and Italy on Dec 11, 1941. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Anyway, Hitler was an idiot, he couldn't make it as a painter IN VIENNA!
It's like, an American college graduate can't get an ESL job IN KOREA!
Last edited by andrewchon on Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Slightly off-topic, what year do you think that Hitler turns into a complete caricature?
When does he get "Napoleoned" or "Ghengis Khaned" and become a mascot for carpet stores and restaurants?
I'm guessing 2075. Figure by then, those that were brought up to be outraged over Hitler will be in significant decline, at which point the "Hitler the meme" generation will take over. |
Dan Carlin asked a similar question on the hardcore history podcast a while ago. Interesting to think about.
When I was in Las Vegas I saw a restaurant with a smiling Mao Zedong holding a bowl of noodles drawn cartoon style on the outside of a Chinsese takeaway place. I guess he hasn't got as bad of a rap as Hitler. |
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