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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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 Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| bakersfield's yearly readings were around 96 - 115㎍/㎥. so you are way off the mark with your 47 number. |
Sorry, but your number is off. Show me where you got it. (I don't see an annual average figure on that link anywhere.)
The average typical Korean city is far more polluted than the average typical American city. That is a fact. You could say it's not the Koreans' fault because of the population density and proximity to China, but that doesn't change that there is dirty air present that is unhealthy to breathe. I hope steps can be made to improve the situation (by having a dialogue with China and by taking action to clean up the domestic output). |
such a glutton for punishment you are. here's the link as you requested:
http://www.stateoftheair.org/2013/key-findings/methodology-and-acknowledgements.html
i'm not arguing the fact that korea has dirty air, or that the average typical korean city is more polluted than the average typical american city, because it's very likely true.
what i am showing you however is that you sound like a typical backwards american "patriot" and that you are posting incorrect data and spouting off what you think you know about the topic at hand based on your bias against korea than actually posting relevant and un-biased information. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| "Thanks to the Clean Air Act, the United States continues to make progress providing healthier air," wrote the researchers. "The State of the Air 2013 shows that the nation's air quality is overall much cleaner, especially compared to just a decade ago." |
Cleanest air in 50 years! How did New York do it?
http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2013/0927/Cleanest-air-in-50-years!-How-did-New-York-do-it
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The air quality in New York is the best it has been in 50 years, Mayor Michael Bloomberg announced Thursday.
And in Washington, D.C., the air surrounding the nation’s capital has shown “major improvement” the past few years, according to Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments, a nonprofit association of area leaders. The region didn’t have a single “code red” alert for dangerous air quality this summer – only the second time this has happened in 16 years, and the first since 2009.
Even Los Angeles, still the smog capital of the United States, reported one-third fewer unhealthy ozone days this year compared with more than a decade ago, according to the 2013 “State of the Air” analysis by the American Lung Association. |
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"The substantial reductions in air pollution we're seeing translate into healthier New Yorkers who are breathing cleaner air," said Michael Seilback, vice president for public policy and communications at the American Lung Association of the Northeast, in a statement. "As more buildings convert to cleaner-burning fuels, we will see even greater health benefits.”
Along with other state requirements for cleaner-burning fuels, these efforts have already resulted in a 69 percent drop of sulfur dioxide in the city's air since 2008. Soot pollution, too, has dropped 23 percent since 2007. And according to the city, the biggest improvements of air quality came precisely in those neighborhoods where buildings had converted their boilers to cleaner-burning fuels. |
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| "The importance of cleaner air cannot be overstated," said Marcia Bystryn, president of the New York League of Conservation Voters. "Clean air protects public health, makes it easier for children and seniors to enjoy the outdoors, and saves taxpayer money by cutting down on hospitalizations triggered by air pollution." |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:10 am Post subject: |
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That link does not show 96-115 as the annual level for Bakersfield, nor does the other. Can you show me how you got that figure? Was it a one day peak? (I think it was.) |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:18 am Post subject: |
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my first post in this thread should be changed slightly. i myself was arguing a point that didn't make sense i admit. the report i linked was for pm2.5 and your number is for pm10 so we were comparing two different things and i should have read more closely.
the link i sent showed 8-hour pm2.5 readings which bakersfield averaged .096 - .115ppm and daily averages which bakersfield averaged 55.5 - 150.4 µg/m3.
your pm10 number was correct and i'm sorry that i posted it wasn't. that doesn't change the fact that almost all of your other statements were inaccurate or flat out untrue however. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| How could they be inaccurate? I copied and pasted them from reliable sources. (You are starting to sound like 12ax7 (with a bit of PatrickGHBusan mixed in).) @_@ |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| How could they be inaccurate? I copied and pasted them from reliable sources. (You are starting to sound like 12ax7 (with a bit of PatrickGHBusan mixed in).) @_@ |
ugh. are you serious?
how about your statement that the air in korea has more heavy metals than america?
or how about using the incredibly ridiculous "korea might be lying" defense  to try and justify your statement?
you are starting to sound like a desk cactus with a bit of audrey II mixed in. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| how about your statement that the air in korea has more heavy metals than america? |
A higher amount per cubic centimeter, yes. That is true. There is all kinds of crap that comes from China into Korea.
Air in Korea: less healthy to breathe than air in America (or Canada or Australia or England or New Zealand or South Africa, etc.) |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| From my unscientific perspective, the air here on Korea's NE coast seems consistently pretty nice. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| The yellow dust isn't thick in the eastern seaside town of Sokcho? Maybe you guys are partially shielded by the mountains. Good to know the air is clean there. That's a big plus of Gangwondo- it's the place that (besides Jeju Island) has the cleanest air in Korea. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| I don't see why Korea's air being cleaner or dirtier is much of a big deal one way or the other. The number is what it is. As long as the Korean government is working to encourage pro-green policies then that's all that matters. Them being cleaner than America is no cause for some prize, nor being dirtier some source of condemnation as such numbers are probably significantly out of their control. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| I don't see why Korea's air being cleaner or dirtier is much of a big deal one way or the other. |
Air pollution is bad, man. It's not healthy. I'd rather live in a place with cleaner air. You wouldn't? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I don't see why Korea's air being cleaner or dirtier is much of a big deal one way or the other. |
Air pollution is bad, man. It's not healthy. I'd rather live in a place with cleaner air. You wouldn't? |
Then do so.
I mean this issue seems to be under Korea's control to a fair degree at best. When you have China next door and your country is the size of other nation's provinces, I don't really see much out there for them to do besides promoting green solutions. |
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mayorhaggar
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
what i am showing you however is that you sound like a typical backwards american "patriot" and that you are posting incorrect data and spouting off what you think you know about the topic at hand based on your bias against korea than actually posting relevant and un-biased information. |
You sound like a typical Korean patriot. And we're talking about pollution from China. Are you a Chinese patriot too?
Anyone trying to make South Korea (or China) look better by pointing fingers at pollution in the US is completely ridiculous. Yes, the US is the biggest polluter in the world, largely because we are very wealthy and can use a lot of energy. But the US is so big that the pollution is very spread out and doesn't cause very many serious health problems. Maybe 30 years ago in LA, or 120 years ago in Pittsburg, but not today. And we all know how bad pollution is in China. Most of China is really rural and poor so most of the pollution is in the more populated east. But there's still super polluted cities in the west like in Sichuan.
Meanwhile, South Korea is like the size of Alabama with a population of 50 million (California is "just" 35 million!), and the pollution is so high and so concentrated that even in my isolated country town the air is hazy most days. If a country the size of the US had the population density AND the widespread high-ish standard of living AND industrialization of South Korea we'd all be in trouble. But the US doesn't have any of those things.
I thought it was just foggy lately but unfortunately, because China and South Korea care more about industrialization and owning cars than public health, it's apparently some kind of brown murk.
And don't try to tell us anything about green initiatives by China and South Korea, it's just more PR by a bunch of back-slapping politicians to save their countries' "face." Then you get the keyboard commandos coming out to save even more face by crying about incomparable pollution in the US. Until South Korea is the size of the US and until China's rural population becomes more industrialized (which will happen one day) then you can't really compare them to the US at all. It's like comparing Chernobyl with all the pollution found in the Atlantic Ocean. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I don't see why Korea's air being cleaner or dirtier is much of a big deal one way or the other. |
Air pollution is bad, man. It's not healthy. I'd rather live in a place with cleaner air. You wouldn't? |
Then do so.
I mean this issue seems to be under Korea's control to a fair degree at best. When you have China next door and your country is the size of other nation's provinces, I don't really see much out there for them to do besides promoting green solutions. |
Right. I wouldn't blame Korea for all of the air issues here... but as a parent, and heck - someone just living here, it's something to be mindful of. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| mayorhaggar wrote: |
| And don't try to tell us anything about green initiatives by China and South Korea, it's just more PR by a bunch of back-slapping politicians to save their countries' "face." |
Can't say about China, but Korea's effort to clean up pollution isn't just PR. Do you have any idea what the Han River looked like in the early-80's? Companies dumping, people throwing garbage in there, and Seoul's refuse. There was a good period of about 20 years the river wouldn't ice at all because of all the chemicals, and sewage running through it.
Yes, the air is bad here compared to Ohio, what can you do when you have 50 million people on a peninsula surrounded by ocean and China next door. Korea's greenie-environmental efforts isn't mere PR to save face. |
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