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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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 Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| faeriehazel wrote: |
| bluelake wrote: |
Regarding your interpretation of 조교수, it is what it says it is: assistant professor, just like any Korean 조교수--at least in the eyes of the Ministry of Education. Universities have tried to pad their ranks in the past few years to get within the 40:1 student-teacher ratio the gov't requires in order to get funding and foreigners seemed like an easy and cheap way to do it. Also, not all are 조교수 (Some, like myself, are 부교수 [associate professor] or even 정교수 [full professor]); they are the three ranks recognized by the MoE. |
Most foreigners are 조교수 but they were formally categorized as 전임강사. In another thread someone notes that when they were hired the requirement was 3 years not four. That's because she was hired as 전임강사. Recently they did away with that category so most esl teachers are being hired as 조교수 now, which has a more stringent requirement of 4 years. The government did this in order to force schools to treat their adjuncts better (by putting them into a "higher" category.) I don't think I'm disagreeing with you; just clarifying what I meant. |
While many may have been categorized as 전임강사 previously, many were also hired in at their current rank (조/부/정). Although the rank of "lecturer" is being phased out at our university, it still exists (even for Koreans). The 1+3 of the PSA has been in effect for several years now, although most people really didn't know anything about it until the past couple of years (and misinformation is still making the rounds). |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| It really depends on the univ. I have numerous friends at numerous univs where they say there is a 4 year limit but have been there 10 years+. When I was hired at my present univ there was a 4 year limit but last year the admin said that no longer applied but if we were ranked in the bottom 20% of faculty in student evals for 2 successive semesters you can't be renewed |
If someone has a protected rank (조/부/정) at a private university and has passed the four-year mark, the university is acknowledging they are a regular employee. After that, strict criteria must be followed in order to non-renew someone. Student evaluations may be part of it, but usually it will be following a clear record of poor performance (as determined by the gov't, not the school). |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| bluelake wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| It really depends on the univ. I have numerous friends at numerous univs where they say there is a 4 year limit but have been there 10 years+. When I was hired at my present univ there was a 4 year limit but last year the admin said that no longer applied but if we were ranked in the bottom 20% of faculty in student evals for 2 successive semesters you can't be renewed |
If someone has a protected rank (조/부/정) at a private university and has passed the four-year mark, the university is acknowledging they are a regular employee. After that, strict criteria must be followed in order to non-renew someone. Student evaluations may be part of it, but usually it will be following a clear record of poor performance (as determined by the gov't, not the school). |
This is a good reference. I've found the same information.
Generally, however, universities do not regard us as regular employees of the university. In other words, we have no real status - as long as they keep it under 5 years or scheme with their lawyers to have us sign new contracts ever 2 years that re-set the salary and status back to zero.
This is the situation for many of foreign university TEFL instructors in Korea. |
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Hoost
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
| bluelake wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| It really depends on the univ. I have numerous friends at numerous univs where they say there is a 4 year limit but have been there 10 years+. When I was hired at my present univ there was a 4 year limit but last year the admin said that no longer applied but if we were ranked in the bottom 20% of faculty in student evals for 2 successive semesters you can't be renewed |
If someone has a protected rank (조/부/정) at a private university and has passed the four-year mark, the university is acknowledging they are a regular employee. After that, strict criteria must be followed in order to non-renew someone. Student evaluations may be part of it, but usually it will be following a clear record of poor performance (as determined by the gov't, not the school). |
This is a good reference. I've found the same information.
Generally, however, universities do not regard us as regular employees of the university. In other words, we have no real status - as long as they keep it under 5 years or scheme with their lawyers to have us sign new contracts ever 2 years that re-set the salary and status back to zero.
This is the situation for many of foreign university TEFL instructors in Korea. |
So, are you saying that everytime we re-sign a contract we are essentially resetting our clock? or is it something that some unis sneak into the contract? |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| bluelake wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| It really depends on the univ. I have numerous friends at numerous univs where they say there is a 4 year limit but have been there 10 years+. When I was hired at my present univ there was a 4 year limit but last year the admin said that no longer applied but if we were ranked in the bottom 20% of faculty in student evals for 2 successive semesters you can't be renewed |
If someone has a protected rank (조/부/정) at a private university and has passed the four-year mark, the university is acknowledging they are a regular employee. After that, strict criteria must be followed in order to non-renew someone. Student evaluations may be part of it, but usually it will be following a clear record of poor performance (as determined by the gov't, not the school). |
Just wondering (it doesn't effect me) but does this protected rank mean that if they don't have an MA under the present rules can they be non-renewed without that criteria? I know a bunch of people at univs who have been at their present gig for years who don't have MA's and are worried about losing their jobs |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Hoost wrote: |
| I'm With You wrote: |
| bluelake wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| It really depends on the univ. I have numerous friends at numerous univs where they say there is a 4 year limit but have been there 10 years+. When I was hired at my present univ there was a 4 year limit but last year the admin said that no longer applied but if we were ranked in the bottom 20% of faculty in student evals for 2 successive semesters you can't be renewed |
If someone has a protected rank (조/부/정) at a private university and has passed the four-year mark, the university is acknowledging they are a regular employee. After that, strict criteria must be followed in order to non-renew someone. Student evaluations may be part of it, but usually it will be following a clear record of poor performance (as determined by the gov't, not the school). |
This is a good reference. I've found the same information.
Generally, however, universities do not regard us as regular employees of the university. In other words, we have no real status - as long as they keep it under 5 years or scheme with their lawyers to have us sign new contracts ever 2 years that re-set the salary and status back to zero.
This is the situation for many of foreign university TEFL instructors in Korea. |
So, are you saying that everytime we re-sign a contract we are essentially resetting our clock? or is it something that some unis sneak into the contract? |
No--as long as one is in the same position and has not signed any form of resignation, the seniority accrues. However, if one's school requests you to sign a resignation (against the rules for them to do, by the way--Article 56 paragraph 2 of the PSA) and you do so, then, yes, the clock has been reset. |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| bluelake wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| It really depends on the univ. I have numerous friends at numerous univs where they say there is a 4 year limit but have been there 10 years+. When I was hired at my present univ there was a 4 year limit but last year the admin said that no longer applied but if we were ranked in the bottom 20% of faculty in student evals for 2 successive semesters you can't be renewed |
If someone has a protected rank (조/부/정) at a private university and has passed the four-year mark, the university is acknowledging they are a regular employee. After that, strict criteria must be followed in order to non-renew someone. Student evaluations may be part of it, but usually it will be following a clear record of poor performance (as determined by the gov't, not the school). |
Just wondering (it doesn't effect me) but does this protected rank mean that if they don't have an MA under the present rules can they be non-renewed without that criteria? I know a bunch of people at univs who have been at their present gig for years who don't have MA's and are worried about losing their jobs |
If under the 1+3 mark, basically anything goes. However, past that point, Article 54-4 kicks in; it doesn't specify any special kind of teacher--it just says "teacher". |
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Hoost
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| There is a lot of talk about "articles xxxx" and regulations. Can anyone point me in the right direction on where to find the actual writing? I would like to read it first hand rather than hear it being paraphrased. |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| Hoost wrote: |
| There is a lot of talk about "articles xxxx" and regulations. Can anyone point me in the right direction on where to find the actual writing? I would like to read it first hand rather than hear it being paraphrased. |
I found this copy of it online:
http://www.law.go.kr/engLsInfoPWah.do?lsiSeq=72187 |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| bluelake wrote: |
| Hoost wrote: |
| There is a lot of talk about "articles xxxx" and regulations. Can anyone point me in the right direction on where to find the actual writing? I would like to read it first hand rather than hear it being paraphrased. |
I found this copy of it online:
http://www.law.go.kr/engLsInfoPWah.do?lsiSeq=72187 |
Scholar and a gentleman.
Cheers.
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Hoost
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:06 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link man! It's good to have a source out there laying it all out. I actually read the entire thing.
Article 54-4 (Term Teachers)
(1) Anyone who is authorized to appoint and dismiss teachers of various kinds of schools may appoint teachers who work for a fixed period (hereinafter referred to as "term teachers") from among those holding teachers' licenses where any cause falling under the following occurs. In this case, the person who is authorized to appoint and dismiss may delegate the authority to the head of a school under the conditions as determined by the articles of association of the school juristic person: <Amended by Act No. 5345, Aug. 22, 1997; Act No. 7354, Jan. 27, 2005>
1. Where it is inevitable to supplement a successor as a teacher retires temporarily from office for any cause falling under any of subparagraphs of Article 59 (1);
2. Where it is inevitable to supplement a successor as a teacher is unable to be engaged in his duties due to a dispatch, training, suspension from office, cancellation of official position or holidays, etc. for not less than 1 month;
3. Where it is impossible to appoint a successor as a teacher removed, discharged or dismissed makes a request for appeal review to the Appeal Commission for Teachers under Article 9 (1) of the Special Act on the Improvement of Teachers' Status; and
4. Where it is needed to appoint a teacher to teach a particular subject temporarily.
(2) The provisions of Articles 56, 58 (2), 58-2, 59, 61 through 64, 64-2, 65, 66 and 66-2 shall not apply to term teachers, and they shall retire from office ipso facto at the expiration of term of appointment. <Amended by Act No. 5345, Aug. 22, 1997; Act No. 5454, Dec. 13, 1997>
(3) The term of appointment for term teachers shall be less than 1 year, and it may be extended within the extent of 3 years. <Newly Inserted by Act No. 5345, Aug. 22, 1997>
[This Article Newly Inserted by Act No. 4226, Apr. 7, 1990]
Where does it state that after 5 years we no longer become "term-teachers" |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| Hoost wrote: |
Thanks for the link man! It's good to have a source out there laying it all out. I actually read the entire thing.
Article 54-4 (Term Teachers)
(1) Anyone who is authorized to appoint and dismiss teachers of various kinds of schools may appoint teachers who work for a fixed period (hereinafter referred to as "term teachers") from among those holding teachers' licenses where any cause falling under the following occurs. In this case, the person who is authorized to appoint and dismiss may delegate the authority to the head of a school under the conditions as determined by the articles of association of the school juristic person: <Amended by Act No. 5345, Aug. 22, 1997; Act No. 7354, Jan. 27, 2005>
1. Where it is inevitable to supplement a successor as a teacher retires temporarily from office for any cause falling under any of subparagraphs of Article 59 (1);
2. Where it is inevitable to supplement a successor as a teacher is unable to be engaged in his duties due to a dispatch, training, suspension from office, cancellation of official position or holidays, etc. for not less than 1 month;
3. Where it is impossible to appoint a successor as a teacher removed, discharged or dismissed makes a request for appeal review to the Appeal Commission for Teachers under Article 9 (1) of the Special Act on the Improvement of Teachers' Status; and
4. Where it is needed to appoint a teacher to teach a particular subject temporarily.
(2) The provisions of Articles 56, 58 (2), 58-2, 59, 61 through 64, 64-2, 65, 66 and 66-2 shall not apply to term teachers, and they shall retire from office ipso facto at the expiration of term of appointment. <Amended by Act No. 5345, Aug. 22, 1997; Act No. 5454, Dec. 13, 1997>
(3) The term of appointment for term teachers shall be less than 1 year, and it may be extended within the extent of 3 years. <Newly Inserted by Act No. 5345, Aug. 22, 1997>
[This Article Newly Inserted by Act No. 4226, Apr. 7, 1990]
Where does it state that after 5 years we no longer become "term-teachers" |
It's by implication of Article 54-4, Section 3 (a couple lines up). The "less than 1 year" is the original contract and "within the extent of 3 years" is the three years of renewals (four years total). If a university hires someone beyond that, they are keeping the person past the point where they are a term teacher and (by implication) accepting him/her as a regular employee.
However, I strongly recommend going slowly and softly with the information. Going directly to one's administration is not advisable for various reasons. If there ever is a reason one needs to use any of the articles, it should be through legal counsel (such as lawyers the KFTA has on retainer). |
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Hoost
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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thanks buddy, that actually clears some things up for me.
I'm actually considering leaving a tenure-track position for a non-tenure track at a private university. I'm concerned mostly about job security and my career trajectory. I actually want to return to my passion for classroom teaching. I'm not interested in being an expendable contract worker.
Thanks for the sound advice, I definitely won't be throwing laws and codes in the uni's face. As my friend from CS used to say, "Stay in the shadows". |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm glad to help when I can. Good luck with whichever decision you go with. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| bluelake wrote: |
| However, I strongly recommend going slowly and softly with the information. Going directly to one's administration is not advisable for various reasons. If there ever is a reason one needs to use any of the articles, it should be through legal counsel (such as lawyers the KFTA has on retainer). |
Perhaps you could explain who the KFTA is and how to get a hold of them when needed?
Again, thanks for sharing the information in this thread. |
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