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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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 Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:28 am Post subject: |
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Troglodyte seemed to offer pretty good advice. You could find another job and still file with the labor board. It's probably going to be a long haul and from what I've heard the success rate is not very good, but you should try.
For what it's worth I had a situation where I had to go to the labor board and the employer chose to settle. Get what you can now from her and try to do what you can to get the rest once you get resettled in a new job and apartment.
Have they already kicked you out of the apartment? |
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Tram204
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Yes. Thank you to all the people who are posting respectful replies by actually relaying personal accounts and offering sound advice.
It has been a very busy week for me already. Contrary to some people's beliefs, I am not just putting all my eggs in one basket and sitting around for two months waiting for a payout. While I have spent some time with the labor board fighting our case, I have also been on the phone with parents and teachers, interviewing at other hagwons, obtaining my LOR, and moving my things into a friend's apartment. It is likely I will be back to work at a new hagwon March 3rd.
YTMND - It is not that I don't like the fact that you are presenting an alternative viewpoint and not supporting me. I just don't appreciate the personal attacks, and arrogant tone you chose to present your stance. Honestly, do you think you've had any good intentions behind any of your posts? If you really think I was supposed to take anything positive from anything you've suggested so far, I will kindly ask you to stop posting in this thread. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
Well, running out of money is just cause. If the school has paperwork showing they are going out of business and that there are no funds, you might have some rights to money, but only if it is available. In addition, there might be other people owed money. So, it's possible you are not first in line to collect.
Do you really want to go through this when your irresponsible acts are what brought you to your situation by relying so heavily on a hagwon owner to keep you employed? |
As far as the courts are concerned, simply running out of money is not just cause to fire people without notice. Plus there is the likelihood that the owner actually does have some assets from the school (e.g. vehicle, copy machine, computers, etc.) which the repo men can come and snatch up. Hell, she might even have money from the school. Just because she's transferred it into her personal account doesn't make it untouchable.
When you hire people, you are supposed to (legally) have money in reserve, in advance, to pay them. If the business is going under, then THAT is justification for laying off staff but still, you have register this situation with the ministry of employment and labor, get approval and then give people 30 days notice. There are very few situations where you can fire someone on the spot without notice. Those situations are extreme things (e.g. criminal activity or national disasters).
Sure, if there's no money to be given out then that's it. You can't draw blood from a stone. But, don't take the owner's word for it. Clearly she's not the most honest person in the world. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Tram204 wrote: |
After talking with the labor board I was told that we are not only entitled to the remaining 40% of January's wages, but because we were dismissed without just cause, we are entitled to one months salary and a one-way air ticket.
This was written into our contracts under the heading: Rights upon Termination - Section 9 (Vii)(vi). It states:
If the employee is dismissed by the Company without Just Cause during the term of the Agreement, for example due to the financial difficulty that the employer faces, the Employee will be provided, upon dismissal, with a lump sum payment equivalent to one (1) months' base salary, less applicable deductions and withholdings required by law. The employee will also be provided with a one-way air ticket from Incheon, South Korea to the airport that is closest to the employee's hometown. These payments will represent the Employee's full entitlement from the Company, under, without limitation, statute and by the common law. Any balance left in the Utilities deposit will be returned to the employees as per Section 6 (V) iv).
For those who do not require a one-way air ticket, they are still entitled to the remaining 40% plus one month's base salary.
That is all I know for now. |
I'm glad that worked out for you.
In case anyone else is in a similar situation later, take note that even if this clause hadn't been in the contract, you are still owed your full salary for time worked (pro-rated for partial months) PLUS either 30 days notice (paid, of course) or a month's salary in lieu of notice. The plane ticket home is a nice bonus that this person's contract offered. It is in fact the only bonus which the contract adds to the employers legal requirements in this type situation. Still, it's nice that the whole thing was included in the contract because it makes it crystal clear to anyone who looks at the contract that the employer knew what they would owe the employee before signing the contract. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| simply running out of money is not just cause to fire people without notice. |
Well, what are the options? How exactly does an employee collect on money owed if the money is not there? Being told there is no longer any money is a lot better than working another month and finding out later.
You can't do anything until about 14 days after pay day. This means with a pay day of the 10th, you have worked up to 24 days into the next work month. Now, instead of 2,200,000 per person, the school has 4,400,000.
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| Plus there is the likelihood that the owner actually does have some assets from the school (e.g. vehicle, copy machine, computers, etc.) which the repo men can come and snatch up. |
Really? Look below.
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| On February 5, 2014 I came to work at the usual time to see 20 Korean men dismantling and hauling away what was left of the former school. |
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| get approval and then give people 30 days notice. |
Who says the approval part has not been done? Why would anyone want to work 30 more days when there is no money? Instead of 2.2 million won, you will work and not get paid 4.4 million won.
If the money is not there, it's not there.
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| Clearly she's not the most honest person in the world. |
I have seen worse. I don't get the indication this is a bad person. This is a matter of a school going bad, meaning either it wasn't run well, or the owner made mistakes which influenced the school. I don't see other complaints being made about this school, and this greatly affects the way I view stories like this.
I had to walk away from a job 1 week after moving all my stuff to a new school. They decided to do a lot worse than this owner, partly locking all doors with a chain so we couldn't leave after 10pm.
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| Still, it's nice that the whole thing was included in the contract |
It's also an indication that this has happened before, either with this owner or the lawyers who drew up this contract have similar cases. With that kind of preparation and lack of other problems with the school, I would pack up and leave. Find a new school. It's not worth fighting.
Last edited by YTMND on Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:05 am; edited 2 times in total |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Some people don't come here to save all their money and do nothing else. |
You shouldn't exploit another country for debts YOU incurred in your home country.
Oh, I took money from the government from my country, what am I going to do about it? I know, instead of getting a job in my country and helping the very government that gave me the loans in the first place, I am going to go to another country and then use that money to pay off the loans.
Now you are hurting the economy in your home country, and you are hurting the economy in the country you are funneling money out of. Part of paying you that 2.2 million won salary is that you will use some of that money in the country and not just siphon it off.
No one benefits except the possible bankers who gave you the loans to begin with. That's one thing I don't get about these college grads who think they can just waltz into Korea, work a few years, and then everything is all peachy keen.
Instead of thanking your school and getting a letter of release to move on, what do you do? You want to fight them and get them to give you more money. This is the kind of people we have folks.
I personally hope no additional money is given. I hope anyone who has reasonable conscience will either go back to their home country and support their government and economy or stay in Korea and help its economy grow by getting another job instead of abusing the legal system.
This is not a case of an employer not paying for 3 months. This is not a case of an employer not paying into pension or medical. This is not a case of someone overworking their employees.
This is about someone that gave it a go, much unlike the teachers who want to fight them and left their home country to get a quick fix on their debts back home. This person tried for a year, hired and paid teachers for about 11 months and now it's not working.
Move on. It's not a hard concept. Ok, I am out of my Archie Bunker sofa now. |
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ibeattheborg
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Location: the deep blue sea
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
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| Some people don't come here to save all their money and do nothing else. |
You shouldn't exploit another country for debts YOU incurred in your home country.
Oh, blah blah blah blah blah blah........
Move on. It's not a hard concept. Ok, I am out of my Archie Bunker sofa now. |
Dearest YTMD, I sometimes worry about what the Peoples Republic has done to your mind. You post some unusual thoughts here on the Korea boards. |
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Ginormousaurus
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Location: 700 Ft. Pulpit
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| ibeattheborg wrote: |
| YTMND wrote: |
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| Some people don't come here to save all their money and do nothing else. |
You shouldn't exploit another country for debts YOU incurred in your home country.
Oh, blah blah blah blah blah blah........
Move on. It's not a hard concept. Ok, I am out of my Archie Bunker sofa now. |
Dearest YTMD, I sometimes worry about what the Peoples Republic has done to your mind. You post some unusual thoughts here on the Korea boards. |
He seems to have all-of-a-sudden turned into an a-hole. I don't know what it was about the OP, but something rubbed him the wrong way and he went into full jerk-mode. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| Ginormousaurus wrote: |
| ibeattheborg wrote: |
| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Some people don't come here to save all their money and do nothing else. |
You shouldn't exploit another country for debts YOU incurred in your home country.
Oh, blah blah blah blah blah blah........
Move on. It's not a hard concept. Ok, I am out of my Archie Bunker sofa now. |
Dearest YTMD, I sometimes worry about what the Peoples Republic has done to your mind. You post some unusual thoughts here on the Korea boards. |
He seems to have all-of-a-sudden turned into an a-hole. I don't know what it was about the OP, but something rubbed him the wrong way and he went into full jerk-mode. |
Actually, the a-hole is the one that gets money and then goes for more. I am saying move on and get a new school. This doesn't make me an a-hole. It makes me a realistic person who goes to the sources with money. If your current school has no money, then look elsewhere. It's a rather simple concept.
If a store runs out of something you normally buy, do you go to another store that has it or do you fight with the store owner? I wonder why people love to fight instead of moving on. |
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