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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| wolverine wrote: |
As a married Korean American with young children here in Korea, I guess I can be lumped into the "korean men" category in this post. I've been lucky to have a cushy University teaching position which allows me to spend alot of time with my family, hence I can say that I easily surpass the weekly 141 hour OECD average of helping out the wife with the household chores. I've also had the opportunity of befriending many of my oldest daughter's preschool friends fathers and also witnessing the life of my brother-in-law and I realized that unlike myself, these gentlemen work ghastly long hours and after hearing them talk on many occasions about their family, know that they are caring fathers who if they were at home more, would do more of their share of household chores. I know that most of them(I'm talking about the younger generation korean men), like my household and captain corea's from the above post, have a similar "whoever is doing less, does more at home" philosphy, I've seen it firsthand with my brother-in-law and male family members here. If we sit on our asses all day, our modern day korean wives would literally murder us. I don't think it's fair to trash korean men as whole as uncaring husbands and fathers.
Korea easily has the longest OECD working hours of any nation and their system, particularly the social welfare system is messed up and this needs to be changed. With the younger generation, I sense that alot of the cultural norms and values are changing for the better in this country regarding household contributions by the husbands. |
I was thinking the same thing as wishful - full circle
I think you need to define 'working hours'. If you mean 'the time not spent at home' (under the pretext that I am not engaging in activities that would be considered as non-work related), then yes, Id say Koreans work harder than anyone else in the world.
You said it yourself, you cant sit on your ass all day. So you don't go home and then tell your wife's you've been working hard all day. She then tells her friends her husband works hard all day. Her friend then has to 'compete' and tells her husband not to come home until 12 pm. She then tells everyone .... etc. etc. etc.
The truth is, a lot of Korean businessmen when they are not at home on an evening, are drinking, eating at restaurants, whoring or whatever.
And yes, you may have worked 10 hrs in a coffee shop today, but sitting on your backside Kakoa messaging your friends for half of it, doesn't really constitute a 'hard day at work' and excuse you from helping out at home. |
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wanderkind
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| wolverine wrote: |
| .......... hence I can say that I easily surpass the daily 141 minutes OECD average of helping out the wife with the household chores. .......... |
16.5 hours a week is a lot more reasonable than 141 
| The Article wrote: |
But before you get riled up against male sloth, consider that South Korean men also work some of the longest paid hours in the OECD. Each day they spend 422 minutes in “paid work or study,” which includes the developed world’s hardest average commute: 74 minute[/b]s. The only groups clocking more time in paid work or study are Mexican men (468 minutes) and Japan’s long-suffering salary men (471 minutes).
The developed world paid work average is 325 minutes per day for men and 212 for women. That means Korean men clock about twice as much time in paid work as the average woman, and nearly 100 minutes more than the average man in OECD nations. |
HOLD UP, what am I missing here? They're claiming that Korean mens' paid work is 422 minutes a day, i.e. 7.03 hours, and that is including over an hour of commute?
And the average developed world male works only 5.41 hours a day and females works 3.5?
All these numbers seem way too low... (with the exception of the average Korean commute time) |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| wanderkind wrote: |
| The Article wrote: |
But before you get riled up against male sloth, consider that South Korean men also work some of the longest paid hours in the OECD. Each day they spend 422 minutes in “paid work or study,” which includes the developed world’s hardest average commute: 74 minute[/b]s. The only groups clocking more time in paid work or study are Mexican men (468 minutes) and Japan’s long-suffering salary men (471 minutes).
The developed world paid work average is 325 minutes per day for men and 212 for women. That means Korean men clock about twice as much time in paid work as the average woman, and nearly 100 minutes more than the average man in OECD nations. |
HOLD UP, what am I missing here? They're claiming that Korean mens' paid work is 422 minutes a day, i.e. 7.03 hours, and that is including over an hour of commute?
And the average developed world male works only 5.41 hours a day and females works 3.5?
All these numbers seem way too low... (with the exception of the average Korean commute time) |
Note that it says 422 hours each day, not each weekday. Assuming I am reading that right, 422 minutes a day * 7 days a week = 2954 minutes a week / 5 work days a week = 591 minutes a workday / 60 minutes an hour = 9.85 hours a workday. That sounds more on target, doesn't it? |
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wolverine
Joined: 10 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| le-paul wrote: |
| wolverine wrote: |
As a married Korean American with young children here in Korea, I guess I can be lumped into the "korean men" category in this post. I've been lucky to have a cushy University teaching position which allows me to spend alot of time with my family, hence I can say that I easily surpass the weekly 141 hour OECD average of helping out the wife with the household chores. I've also had the opportunity of befriending many of my oldest daughter's preschool friends fathers and also witnessing the life of my brother-in-law and I realized that unlike myself, these gentlemen work ghastly long hours and after hearing them talk on many occasions about their family, know that they are caring fathers who if they were at home more, would do more of their share of household chores. I know that most of them(I'm talking about the younger generation korean men), like my household and captain corea's from the above post, have a similar "whoever is doing less, does more at home" philosphy, I've seen it firsthand with my brother-in-law and male family members here. If we sit on our asses all day, our modern day korean wives would literally murder us. I don't think it's fair to trash korean men as whole as uncaring husbands and fathers.
Korea easily has the longest OECD working hours of any nation and their system, particularly the social welfare system is messed up and this needs to be changed. With the younger generation, I sense that alot of the cultural norms and values are changing for the better in this country regarding household contributions by the husbands. |
I was thinking the same thing as wishful - full circle
I think you need to define 'working hours'. If you mean 'the time not spent at home' (under the pretext that I am not engaging in activities that would be considered as non-work related), then yes, Id say Koreans work harder than anyone else in the world.
You said it yourself, you cant sit on your ass all day. So you don't go home and then tell your wife's you've been working hard all day. She then tells her friends her husband works hard all day. Her friend then has to 'compete' and tells her husband not to come home until 12 pm. She then tells everyone .... etc. etc. etc.
The truth is, a lot of Korean businessmen when they are not at home on an evening, are drinking, eating at restaurants, whoring or whatever.
And yes, you may have worked 10 hrs in a coffee shop today, but sitting on your backside Kakoa messaging your friends for half of it, doesn't really constitute a 'hard day at work' and excuse you from helping out at home. |
You have a point Le-paul, sure it is well known that because of the existing mentally of staying later than the boss at work and keeping up appearances of working hard in many of the korean workplaces, has contributed to the absence of the men from being home with their families. This decreases overall productivity and the overall health of korean society, which needs to change.
The part I disagree with you is your statement:
"The truth is, a lot of Korean businessmen when they are not at home on an evening, are drinking, eating at restaurants, whoring or whatever.
And yes, you may have worked 10 hrs in a coffee shop today, but sitting on your backside Kakoa messaging your friends for half of it, doesn't really constitute a 'hard day at work' and excuse you from helping out at home."
So you think the majority of Korean men deliberately go out their way to avoid their families to do the sort of non-sense you forementioned above?
I'm sure an elite/higher level cliente of businessmen with the expendable cash go about "whoring and drinking" on a regular basis. But the majority of real life Korean men with families that I know of have a "wife spending allowance" of around 300,000 - 500,000 a month(myself included), which would exclude the possiblity of frequent whoring and party like you would like to think all korean men do. Unless it is on the company dime, but they have been clamping down on this, still goes on but not as frequent as you would like to think. Matter of fact most korean company men I know dread the company drinking nights where they have to drink with boss. My korean friends have told me on many occasions that they would prefer coming home earlier. Given the choice they would prefer to go home and yes help out at home.
Why am I saying all this and getting a little defensive? Because I'm a Korean dad/husband and I'm sick and tired of the white men on this board getting all smug and feeling good about themselves bashing Korean men and husbands, generalizing all of them, when many don't have a clue, can't speak a lick of the language or don't know any Korean men to get their perspective on things. Sure like all men around the world, there are terrible korean husbands but I'm sure the majority are decent and helpful when given the opportunity. Let's don't generalize. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe I am generalising but I can honestly say, I do get the impression from what people have told me (or shown by example) he would rather be out of his home, than at home.
A friend of mine even told me yesterday, that his mother forbids him to go home to have dinner more than once a month so that he is 'busy'. He therefore has to live in a goshitel.
My friends father comes home at 10 pm every night and is so drunk, he usually goes straight to sleep - he is a teacher.
Ive also met Koreans that have admitted they aren't really doing anything, they just keeping the premises of their business open for appearances.
And yes I was referring to businessmen but all the other Koreans I know are off doing their hobbies whenever they aren't 'working' (playing golf, climbing, riding motorbikes etc) - all of them have families.
Im sure not all Koreans are like that, but I haven't met any yet.
Im really not being smug though. This is just something that I have observed and as a Korean yourself, you have every right to be offended by what. I've said. But like said, this is what I have observed and been told - by koreans.
And I dont deny that most koreans would prefer to avoid the company night out etc. everyone complains about that. it still happens though because it is impolite in Korea to refuse.
I just simply cannot for the life of me figure out what people are doing at work so late or so early? Maybe you can tell me that and why most kids I've ever asked about this, say they never see their fathers? |
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wolverine
Joined: 10 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:15 am Post subject: |
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Fair enough Le-paul
Perhaps it's because we exist in entirely different social circles or see what we expect to see, that we have witnessed some different things. I don't want to repute what you've seen, heard and or have experienced.
I've gotten quite close to a adjussi social circle of around 11 korean dads. To put it bluntly about 2 are soju swilling deuchbags(with 1 about to get a divorce) that would fit into all of the negative stereotypes of bad korean husbands, a handful pretty decent fellows and husbands, and around 4 straightup great dads and husbands, who in spite of their limited time and energy do whatever they can for their wives and kids. My point is that you'll probably see this similar type of continuum amongst a group of western dads and families back at home. The only difference is because of the extended working hours/requirements of their jobs, these fellows can't helpout as much in the house compared to their western counterparts. Sure there are alot of bad husbands/dads out there who don't want to go home, but I've seen a ton of good ones as well. My only grip is when people question the intentions and generalize the group as a whole. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| wolverine wrote: |
Fair enough Le-paul
Perhaps it's because we exist in entirely different social circles or see what we expect to see, that we have witnessed some different things. I don't want to repute what you've seen, heard and or have experienced.
I've gotten quite close to a adjussi social circle of around 11 korean dads. To put it bluntly about 2 are soju swilling deuchbags(with 1 about to get a divorce) that would fit into all of the negative stereotypes of bad korean husbands, a handful pretty decent fellows and husbands, and around 4 straightup great dads and husbands, who in spite of their limited time and energy do whatever they can for their wives and kids. My point is that you'll probably see this similar type of continuum amongst a group of western dads and families back at home. The only difference is because of the extended working hours/requirements of their jobs, these fellows can't helpout as much in the house compared to their western counterparts. Sure there are alot of bad husbands/dads out there who don't want to go home, but I've seen a ton of good ones as well. My only grip is when people question the intentions and generalize the group as a whole. |
Fair enough.
But don't get me wrong, i don't want to have this opinion and would love to be proved otherwise.
I remain optimistic... |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:54 am Post subject: |
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My experiences largely echo Le-Paul's... but I know it's a small sampling in the greater scheme of things.
The Korean guys that I know that brag/talk about/focus on the family are outnumbered by the ones that I know that go out drinking/cavorting. But that's in "professional" circles.
I don't hang as much as I should with the average man on the street.
As always though, generalizations are just that, and I'm always happy to experience otherwise. |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| I always wonder if the stats for calculating an average Korean work day takes into account the dinners/drinking/noraebang/massage parlors. It's an honest question, as many Koreans I know consider that their professional duty. |
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joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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"I'm sick and tired of the white men on this board getting all smug and feeling good about themselves bashing Korean men"
Is it hard to understand? There are quite a few on this board, and I'm one of them, who put up with a lot of crap living in Korea, and dare I say most of that came from the local men, and I still feel a kind of disgust towards them, as a general idea, because I haven't really buried the past. I carry bitterness, and this typing angry stuff on a message board is a kind of psychological outlet I suppose, however petty and silly.
It's much the same as when I worked for someone I considered a good Korean boss who told me he refused to hire Americans, with one exception, based on his treatment in the US decades before. He was over 70 and seemed cool to me, but had a lot of hate for the US because of what he felt was racist treatment, you know, that feeling like a second class citizen and so on, there in his younger years.
It'd be nice if we could all be cool and not generalize and bury the past etc.. but if we're honest, nah, most of us don't. Call it wrong, or get upset about it if you want but the fact is that many people are bitter and feel angry about how they were treated, even it was years ago. Somehow this (yeah, OK, perceived) mistreatment seems to be amplified living in a foreign country and we can use our old tribal ways of "us and them" thinking. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| I always wonder if the stats for calculating an average Korean work day takes into account the dinners/drinking/noraebang/massage parlors. It's an honest question, as many Koreans I know consider that their professional duty. |
Well, they probably should. It's pushed on them by their workplace culture, and it's hard on both their health and their quality of life. At our school's dinner parties, for example, a fair portion of the women used to sneak away in the transition from the restaurant to the singing room, until the previous vice principal scolded them for it and pressured them to stop doing it, accusing them of spoiling the atmosphere through their absence. Yeah, I'd say those women could be said to be working if they stick around when they'd rather leave, and working for no pay. That said, I strongly suspect (but don't know for certain) they do not count that time, since they aren't "officially" work hours. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| joelove wrote: |
"I'm sick and tired of the white men on this board getting all smug and feeling good about themselves bashing Korean men"
Is it hard to understand? There are quite a few on this board, and I'm one of them, who put up with a lot of crap living in Korea, and dare I say most of that came from the local men, and I still feel a kind of disgust towards them, as a general idea, because I haven't really buried the past. I carry bitterness, and this typing angry stuff on a message board is a kind of psychological outlet I suppose, however petty and silly.
It'd be nice if we could all be cool and not generalize and bury the past etc.. but if we're honest, nah, most of us don't. Call it wrong, or get upset about it if you want but the fact is that many people are bitter and feel angry about how they were treated, even it was years ago. Somehow this (yeah, OK, perceived) mistreatment seems to be amplified living in a foreign country and we can use our old tribal ways of "us and them" thinking. |
What I don't understand, is that when NETs from another country get frustrated and angry here and lash out, its just "venting", and its excusable and understandable. Heck, some consider it a good thing, "therapeutic". It certainly isn't a reflection on your culture. Yet if Korean people lash out based on their encounters with foreigners or policies that are affecting them, it is xenophobia, racism, bigotry, and a reflection of the worst aspects of their culture. It does not appear that the same standard is being applied. Imagine if there were a site for Korean English teachers and Hagwon workers to post and all it was, was a bunch of Koreans bashing NETs and their culture, with a touch of gender-anger, and insults. We would label it a hate site.
And are we wholly innocent in this matter? Just as we accept that Koreans bear responsibility for our negative impressions of them through their bad behavior, does that not apply to us as well? We readily accept the stereotype of the vomiting, spitting, wife-beating, lazy ajosshi. But if someone labels us all as skirt-chasers, drunks, slackers, and people who all did drugs back home, then we are outraged.
Furthermore, people come on here and talk about equal treatment and being treated like other Koreans, etc. But they also talk about how they refuse to follow certain Korean customs, play by the rules, do things according to Korean custom, and accept equal responsibilities. It's like the NET who demands to be treated like other Korean teachers with benefits or not having to take a drug test, but skips out on the staff meetings, extra-curricular activities, Saturday classes, school assemblies, etc.
And we must be careful as to why we generalize. I have dealt with crap my whole life from people of all races and backgrounds, including Koreans. For one thing, men are always going to be the source of trouble, simply because men generally have more tolerance for women than other men and don't get into conflicts with them nearly as much. Factor in how men work at a far higher rate here, and it increases the likelihood that your boss will be a Korean man. And guess what? Everyone the world over doesn't like their boss. Some people understand that and just think "he's a crappy boss". Others lack that level of reflection and instead associate their boss with his ethnicity.
Lastly, is venting and writing this stuff the best way to deal with stress? Obviously I believe in the utility of the board as a way to discuss things, but I don't think it's a place for ranting. But if you're feeling that level of anger, there might be better, actual therapeutic treatments one should seek. Think about activities that make you feel relaxed, and ones where say, if you are feeling angry at Korean men, you enjoy the company of Korean men. Maybe get a good circle of Korean guy friends or just a friend, and go out for dinner and drinks and bowling or something.
But if you're ever feeling angry at a person of a certain gender/race/ethnicity/etc. the best thing you can do is go and make friends (or hang out with one of your friends) of that group and spend some good quality time together. Far better than ranting on the web. And above all, listen patiently. A lot can be gained by listening and withholding your opinion to the end, because you often get explanations and gain understanding as to why someone does something. Instead of figuring out what you're going to say, listen and empathize with what the person is trying to say. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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So you think the majority of Korean men deliberately go out their way to avoid their families to do the sort of non-sense you forementioned above?
I'm sure an elite/higher level cliente of businessmen with the expendable cash go about "whoring and drinking" on a regular basis. But the majority of real life Korean men with families that I know of have a "wife spending allowance" of around 300,000 - 500,000 a month(myself included), which would exclude the possiblity of frequent whoring and party like you would like to think all korean men do. Unless it is on the company dime, but they have been clamping down on this, still goes on but not as frequent as you would like to think. Matter of fact most korean company men I know dread the company drinking nights where they have to drink with boss. My korean friends have told me on many occasions that they would prefer coming home earlier. Given the choice they would prefer to go home and yes help out at home.
Why am I saying all this and getting a little defensive? Because I'm a Korean dad/husband and I'm sick and tired of the white men on this board getting all smug and feeling good about themselves bashing Korean men and husbands, generalizing all of them, when many don't have a clue, can't speak a lick of the language or don't know any Korean men to get their perspective on things. Sure like all men around the world, there are terrible korean husbands but I'm sure the majority are decent and helpful when given the opportunity. Let's don't generalize. |
I'm not Korean, but I know there are a lot of great Korean men out there. I see great Korean dad's at the park. I see them laughing with their children at homeplus, and carrying their babies around the store. And my friends that are Korean dads spend time rocking the baby, changing diapers and trying to provide for their families. I hear you buddy...  |
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joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| joelove wrote: |
"I'm sick and tired of the white men on this board getting all smug and feeling good about themselves bashing Korean men"
Is it hard to understand? There are quite a few on this board, and I'm one of them, who put up with a lot of crap living in Korea, and dare I say most of that came from the local men, and I still feel a kind of disgust towards them, as a general idea, because I haven't really buried the past. I carry bitterness, and this typing angry stuff on a message board is a kind of psychological outlet I suppose, however petty and silly.
It'd be nice if we could all be cool and not generalize and bury the past etc.. but if we're honest, nah, most of us don't. Call it wrong, or get upset about it if you want but the fact is that many people are bitter and feel angry about how they were treated, even it was years ago. Somehow this (yeah, OK, perceived) mistreatment seems to be amplified living in a foreign country and we can use our old tribal ways of "us and them" thinking. |
What I don't understand, is that when NETs from another country get frustrated and angry here and lash out, its just "venting", and its excusable and understandable. Heck, some consider it a good thing, "therapeutic". It certainly isn't a reflection on your culture. Yet if Korean people lash out based on their encounters with foreigners or policies that are affecting them, it is xenophobia, racism, bigotry, and a reflection of the worst aspects of their culture. It does not appear that the same standard is being applied. Imagine if there were a site for Korean English teachers and Hagwon workers to post and all it was, was a bunch of Koreans bashing NETs and their culture, with a touch of gender-anger, and insults. We would label it a hate site.
And are we wholly innocent in this matter? Just as we accept that Koreans bear responsibility for our negative impressions of them through their bad behavior, does that not apply to us as well? We readily accept the stereotype of the vomiting, spitting, wife-beating, lazy ajosshi. But if someone labels us all as skirt-chasers, drunks, slackers, and people who all did drugs back home, then we are outraged.
Furthermore, people come on here and talk about equal treatment and being treated like other Koreans, etc. But they also talk about how they refuse to follow certain Korean customs, play by the rules, do things according to Korean custom, and accept equal responsibilities. It's like the NET who demands to be treated like other Korean teachers with benefits or not having to take a drug test, but skips out on the staff meetings, extra-curricular activities, Saturday classes, school assemblies, etc.
And we must be careful as to why we generalize. I have dealt with crap my whole life from people of all races and backgrounds, including Koreans. For one thing, men are always going to be the source of trouble, simply because men generally have more tolerance for women than other men and don't get into conflicts with them nearly as much. Factor in how men work at a far higher rate here, and it increases the likelihood that your boss will be a Korean man. And guess what? Everyone the world over doesn't like their boss. Some people understand that and just think "he's a crappy boss". Others lack that level of reflection and instead associate their boss with his ethnicity.
Lastly, is venting and writing this stuff the best way to deal with stress? Obviously I believe in the utility of the board as a way to discuss things, but I don't think it's a place for ranting. But if you're feeling that level of anger, there might be better, actual therapeutic treatments one should seek. Think about activities that make you feel relaxed, and ones where say, if you are feeling angry at Korean men, you enjoy the company of Korean men. Maybe get a good circle of Korean guy friends or just a friend, and go out for dinner and drinks and bowling or something.
But if you're ever feeling angry at a person of a certain gender/race/ethnicity/etc. the best thing you can do is go and make friends (or hang out with one of your friends) of that group and spend some good quality time together. Far better than ranting on the web. And above all, listen patiently. A lot can be gained by listening and withholding your opinion to the end, because you often get explanations and gain understanding as to why someone does something. Instead of figuring out what you're going to say, listen and empathize with what the person is trying to say. |
Sure. I'm not really bitter. I just have old ideas. I'm not that young anymore. In my 40s. I was sort of using myself as an example and the old guy Korean boss I had as another. The point I was getting at is, do we bury old resentments? Most of us do not.
There are deeper implications to all this. Most people don't care about them. They will quickly react and call them philosophical or something. Yet they are simple observable facts we all live with. We are interested in labels. There's nothing deep about that. The Korean is deeply invested in being a Korean. It's all he knows, though he obviously knows he's a human being too. It's his whole being, apparently, and his little fragmented self is full of being a particular thing. And this is true for the foreigner too. This is true for all of us. We are committed to being a particular thing. No one wants to hear this or look at this, and see how insane it is, and what chaos it causes. Then our own little world with its comforts might be hurt. Interesting, wouldn't you say? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| No_hite_pls wrote: |
| Quote: |
So you think the majority of Korean men deliberately go out their way to avoid their families to do the sort of non-sense you forementioned above?
I'm sure an elite/higher level cliente of businessmen with the expendable cash go about "whoring and drinking" on a regular basis. But the majority of real life Korean men with families that I know of have a "wife spending allowance" of around 300,000 - 500,000 a month(myself included), which would exclude the possiblity of frequent whoring and party like you would like to think all korean men do. Unless it is on the company dime, but they have been clamping down on this, still goes on but not as frequent as you would like to think. Matter of fact most korean company men I know dread the company drinking nights where they have to drink with boss. My korean friends have told me on many occasions that they would prefer coming home earlier. Given the choice they would prefer to go home and yes help out at home.
Why am I saying all this and getting a little defensive? Because I'm a Korean dad/husband and I'm sick and tired of the white men on this board getting all smug and feeling good about themselves bashing Korean men and husbands, generalizing all of them, when many don't have a clue, can't speak a lick of the language or don't know any Korean men to get their perspective on things. Sure like all men around the world, there are terrible korean husbands but I'm sure the majority are decent and helpful when given the opportunity. Let's don't generalize. |
I'm not Korean, but I know there are a lot of great Korean men out there. I see great Korean dad's at the park. I see them laughing with their children at homeplus, and carrying their babies around the store. And my friends that are Korean dads spend time rocking the baby, changing diapers and trying to provide for their families. I hear you buddy... |
If we're going by personal observation, I'd say yours are in the minority. The dads I see at HomePlus, for example, are leaning on shopping carts and staring at their smartphones while their kids run around like wild indians or if confined to the cart are grabbing onto whatever is in their reach.
The same things with the dads in the park. They're having a smoke or are fixated on their smart phone. The father actually engaged with his child is a rarity. I see them kicking a soccer ball and making their kid run after it while they're on the smartphone.
I see some playing catch or badminton with their kids. But they stick out like a sore thumb because they are such exceptions.
sr makes this generalization:
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| but I'm sure the majority are decent and helpful when given the opportunity. |
And then posts:
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| Let's don't generalize. |
You're becoming the Norm Crosby of Dave's.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY6KyCuqeoA |
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