|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bossface
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:29 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Kepler wrote: |
Guns have long been easily accessible in America. The problem is that there are a lot more crazies freely roaming in America. It used to be much more common to keep mentally unstable people locked up- in a padded cell with a straitjacket on if necessary. Insane asylums were not pleasant places but they did protect the rest of society. Nowadays people like Elliot Rodger (the Isla Vista shooter) with a history of abnormal behavior can post threats online and the police do nothing except talk to him. |
Do you have any evidence whatsoever to support this claim?
Do other first world nations keep their mentally unstable people in padded rooms? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Industrial revolution junk food, long hours, no vacation --> mental illness --> drugs to mask mental illness, and drugs to escape reality --> violence as a result of mental illness and drugs (using guns) --> goto prison.
PROFIT FOR EVERYONE!!! 
Food industry $$$
Medical industry $$$
Drug industry $$$
Gun industry $$$
Law enforcement industry $$$
Psychiatric industry $$$
Legal industry $$$
Prison industry $$$
Go team Amerika, you guys are freakin' geniuses!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
You have your opinion and I have mine.
Guns or kids... it's not that hard ... but we can see which one has more value to your average American.
As I said (time and time again) ... when it comes to guns in the States rational decision making and careful policy decisions are impossible.
They will just continue to kill off their youth, defend their "right" and be the ONLY developed nation on the planet with this issue.
Put up the fences and protect the rest of the planet from their madness.
.[/quote]Your viewpoint isnt rational either because it is stated under a false premise. The issue isnt kids vs. guns. Thats just an ignorant sensationalist way of framing an issue. Might as well say kids vs. gays when talking gay marriage. The issue is improved public safety vs. repeal of part of the Bill of Rights. There are two very important prinicples at play here. It may come in time where such a dradtic step is needed, but before that is done, all other avenues should be considered and tried. To repeal part of the Bill of Rights is an extremely grave undertaking.
Let me ask you would 'public safety' or 'kids' or whatever else you want to call itve sufficient cause to suspend Quartering of Troops? Jury Trial? Unreasonable Search and Seizure? Speedy Trial? Probable Cause? By repealing the 2nd Amendment you put all of those at risk under the guise of 'Public Order'.
You talk about careful decision making but your stance on guns fails to carefully consuder the full ramifications of banning guns and the effect it would have on other legal pritections.
As for rational, your call to put up fences just screams 'paranoid right-wing gun nut'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:26 am Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
|
|
| ttompatz wrote: |
Those 74 shooting incidents were just in schools.
How about dead kids outside of schools?
So how many hundreds and thousands more dead kids will it take.
Your average American values their "right" to have guns more than they value their kids or the political will would have taken care of the issue long ago.
. |
You're wrong. The average American wants background checks. Nine out of ten want them.
The NRA organizational leadership does not (74% of members do, though). Big firearm does not. Therefore, Congress does not.
Its really quite simple, just like your irrational and searing contempt for Americans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:46 am Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
Big firearm does not. Therefore, Congress does not.
|
$$$
Merikans live under corporate rule. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:54 am Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
You're wrong. The average American wants background checks. Nine out of ten want them.
The NRA organizational leadership does not (74% of members do, though). Big firearm does not. Therefore, Congress does not.
Its really quite simple, just like your irrational and searing contempt for Americans. |
I am truly sorry. I thought it was the American people who elected congressmen and not the NRA organizational leadership and "big firearm.
Either the elections are not honest and the American democracy is a farce or the people don't care enough to change congressmen over the issue.
| Steelrails wrote: |
To repeal part of the Bill of Rights is an extremely grave undertaking.
Let me ask you would 'public safety' or 'kids' or whatever else you want to call itve sufficient cause to suspend Quartering of Troops? Jury Trial? Unreasonable Search and Seizure? Speedy Trial? Probable Cause? By repealing the 2nd Amendment you put all of those at risk under the guise of 'Public Order' |
That argument was laid to waste after 911:
The patriot act
The FISA amendments act
The President’s Surveillance Program
The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004
Attorney General Guidelines for Domestic FBI Operations, 2008
Military Commissions Act of 2006
Sheep to the slaughter and the 2nd amendment is nothing more than a joke along with the rest of the toothless "rights" and protections.
To paraphrase from Ben Franklin's famous quote, "The American people gave up their freedom for security and got neither for their trouble".
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:01 am Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
|
|
| ttompatz wrote: |
I thought it was the American people who elected congressmen and not the NRA organizational leadership.
|
People can't possibly be this naive? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:19 am Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
|
|
| ttompatz wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
To repeal part of the Bill of Rights is an extremely grave undertaking.
Let me ask you would 'public safety' or 'kids' or whatever else you want to call itve sufficient cause to suspend Quartering of Troops? Jury Trial? Unreasonable Search and Seizure? Speedy Trial? Probable Cause? By repealing the 2nd Amendment you put all of those at risk under the guise of 'Public Order' |
That argument was laid to waste after 911:
The patriot act
The FISA amendments act
The President’s Surveillance Program
The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004
Attorney General Guidelines for Domestic FBI Operations, 2008
Military Commissions Act of 2006
Sheep to the slaughter and the 2nd amendment is nothing more than a joke along with the rest of the toothless "rights" and protections.
To paraphrase from Ben Franklin's famous quote, "The American people gave up their freedom for security and got neither for their trouble".
. |
Right, but that failure doesn't justify the implementation of those policies, nor further mutilation of the Constitution. Having lopped of our ears and cut off our noses, it does not follow that gouging out your eyes is thus okay.
Wouldn't the rational response be to repeal those measures that gutted our constitution and pursue some other remedy on the gun issue? Say, mental health checks, waiting periods, and such. Or even deeper things like addressing our 24-7 news cycle, fascination with violence, and impulsive nature? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:47 am Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
To repeal part of the Bill of Rights is an extremely grave undertaking.
Let me ask you would 'public safety' or 'kids' or whatever else you want to call itve sufficient cause to suspend Quartering of Troops? Jury Trial? Unreasonable Search and Seizure? Speedy Trial? Probable Cause? By repealing the 2nd Amendment you put all of those at risk under the guise of 'Public Order' |
That argument was laid to waste after 911:
The patriot act
The FISA amendments act
The President’s Surveillance Program
The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004
Attorney General Guidelines for Domestic FBI Operations, 2008
Military Commissions Act of 2006
Sheep to the slaughter and the 2nd amendment is nothing more than a joke along with the rest of the toothless "rights" and protections.
To paraphrase from Ben Franklin's famous quote, "The American people gave up their freedom for security and got neither for their trouble".
. |
Right, but that failure doesn't justify the implementation of those policies, nor further mutilation of the Constitution. Having lopped of our ears and cut off our noses, it does not follow that gouging out your eyes is thus okay.
Wouldn't the rational response be to repeal those measures that gutted our constitution and pursue some other remedy on the gun issue? Say, mental health checks, waiting periods, and such. Or even deeper things like addressing our 24-7 news cycle, fascination with violence, and impulsive nature? |
Steelrails, we're only free if we have a gun in our hands. I hate to say it, but in this world, it is the truth. Unless, of course, somebody else has a better weapon. Then, we're not so free anymore. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
|
|
| Stain wrote: |
| we're only free if we have a gun in our hands. I hate to say it, but in this world, it is the truth. Unless, of course, somebody else has a better weapon. Then, we're not so free anymore. |
They do, it's called corporate enslavement of the masses.
Americans acting like they are free because they have guns is a joke... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
|
|
| Stain wrote: |
| Steelrails, we're only free if we have a gun in our hands. I hate to say it, but in this world, it is the truth. Unless, of course, somebody else has a better weapon. Then, we're not so free anymore. |
lol the us government has way stronger weapons against the masses than guns. awful mass media, crap food, systems to keep the poor poor and the rich rich, etc.
guns. lol. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
|
|
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| Steelrails, we're only free if we have a gun in our hands. I hate to say it, but in this world, it is the truth. Unless, of course, somebody else has a better weapon. Then, we're not so free anymore. |
lol the us government has way stronger weapons against the masses than guns. awful mass media, crap food, systems to keep the poor poor and the rich rich, etc.
guns. lol. |
Exactly!!
Americans act like evil hasn't become more sophisticated since Hitler. Get real, nobody is going to put you in a gas chamber anymore, that's so 1930s!! Why kill citizens when you can enslave them with debt, make GDP producing machines out of them, sell them guns, sell them sugar, sell them drugs. They are worth way more $$$ alive!
Guns are no defense against this, guns are part of it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ghostrider
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
Those 74 shooting incidents were just in schools.
How about dead kids outside of schools?
So how many hundreds and thousands more dead kids will it take.
Your average American values their "right" to have guns more than they value their kids or the political will would have taken care of the issue long ago.
. |
You're wrong. The average American wants background checks. Nine out of ten want them.
The NRA organizational leadership does not (74% of members do, though). Big firearm does not. Therefore, Congress does not.
Its really quite simple, just like your irrational and searing contempt for Americans. |
Sure, a lot of Americans will say that background checks are a good idea when asked about it in a public opinion survey. Most of those people, however, are too apathetic to do anything about the issue and so the slaughter continues. The NRA, on the other hand, is anything but apathetic about the issue.
"In recent years, the N.R.A. has aggressively lobbied federal and state governments to dilute or eliminate numerous regulations on gun ownership. And the clearest beneficiary has been the gun industry — sales of firearms and ammunition have grown 5.7 percent a year since 2007, to nearly $12 billion this year, according to IBISWorld, a market research firm. Despite the recession, arms sales have been growing so fast that domestic manufacturers haven’t been able to keep up. Imports of arms have grown 3.6 percent a year in the last five years.
"The industry has, in turn, been a big supporter of the N.R.A. It has contributed between $14.7 million and $38.9 million to an N.R.A.-corporate-giving campaign since 2005, according to a report published last year by the Violence Policy Center, a nonprofit group that advocates greater gun control. The estimate is based on a study of the N.R.A.’s 'Ring of Freedom' program and very likely understates the industry’s total financial support for the association, which does not publicly disclose a comprehensive list of its donors and how much they have given."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/opinion/national-rifle-selling-association.html?_r=0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bossface wrote: |
| Kepler wrote: |
Guns have long been easily accessible in America. The problem is that there are a lot more crazies freely roaming in America. It used to be much more common to keep mentally unstable people locked up- in a padded cell with a straitjacket on if necessary. Insane asylums were not pleasant places but they did protect the rest of society. Nowadays people like Elliot Rodger (the Isla Vista shooter) with a history of abnormal behavior can post threats online and the police do nothing except talk to him. |
Do you have any evidence whatsoever to support this claim?
Do other first world nations keep their mentally unstable people in padded rooms? |
It is the combination of lax gun laws and the deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill that has been catastrophic. Psychiatrists have become much more confident about their ability to treat patients with drugs so locking mentally unstable people up has become much less common. A lot of perpetrators of mass shootings nowadays would not be allowed to roam freely several decades ago. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
|
|
| ghostrider wrote: |
| Sure, a lot of Americans will say that background checks are a good idea when asked about it in a public opinion survey. Most of those people, however, are too apathetic to do anything about the issue and so the slaughter continues. The NRA, on the other hand, is anything but apathetic about the issue. |
True, but humans aren't in control of the USA anymore, the corporation is in control. Individuals do not have the immortal lifespan nor the finances that the corporations possess. They can't possibly win, hence their apathy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
