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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Let me add I also had jaded friends with uni degrees working at Wal mart, call centers, a loading dock, retail, etc with a univeristy degree. One buddy had his interest relief period run out and he had to repay but couldn't. So, they took him to court to make him pay 100 bucks a month which wasn't even paying the interest. (The maritime economy was always bad. America during the great recession has gotten a taste of our life. Look at all the rich kids nowadays who have come over here compared to before. Even with the parents paying their univerisity wholly or partially, they can't get a job.)
Anyways, I was looking into going to Korea at the time and I told 3 or 4 people to come over with me. Let's escape poverty, harassment from creditors, etc. One dude, his parents paid his school. Guess he was a rich kid who didn't care but hated his call center job. Another guy was the one paying a hundred a month. He was waiting for 10 hears before he could legally declare bankruptcy on his loans and wait a nother seven years for that to clear off.
I told these folks to come over with me. Alberta and Toronto wasn't giving a free apartment or flight at the time and moving to where the jobs are costs money. But, for some reason I'll never understand, they just wanted to stay at home and be jaded about life and poor. Going to Korea was less well known than now and was more scary I guess. Still, some folks like to complain and not change anything in their life. (Though the exchange rate tanking within a year of getting over here and staying down for many years really was a kick in the teeth compared to those who got over here a few years earlier. A shame when I did get over here, it was at the tail end of the boom here before the recession in America changed the market. My only regret, I guess.) |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Debt |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| At the time, I couldn't understand it. It made no sense to me how they could afford to financially do this. Then, it became about selling additinal products to people they didn't need. I hate to say it, but certain poor demographics that you could tell over the phone by the way they spoke English were the ones falling into these scams. Made no sense to me and I even spoke up about it. Folks at the top in all their wisdom thought the latest thing was to market bad debt into risky derivatives. They never thought that folks would eventually default on these things? Of course after 2008, this company, along with many others got bailed out by the US government. Go figure. |
Oh they knew, but they were making money, big time. Time for another fun office story...
In 2002 I worked as an analyst in subprime. My job was to analyze portfolio credit risk. Even as a jr analyst it was so obvious this system was not sustainable. We were pushing crappy ARM loans to low IQ customers, taking the loans and securitizing them, and selling them to large institutional investors (like life insurance companies). But of course interest rates would eventually rise, housing prices would eventually stop rising, and our models clearly showed it would be bad.
I naively turned in a few reports to my portfolio manager showing what would happen to default rates in various scenarios. Those reports were shredded. At one point the chick told me to "make the chart go the other way". In other words just flat out lie about the risks. People didn't want to know, too much money being made off the masses. And no penalties for taking risk, they wouldn't personally get stuck with the bill.
Later in 2008 the whole thing blew (5yrs after we issued those crappy ARM loans, the rates adjusted up, and people couldn't pay). And the hilarious thing is they just passed the losses off to the government.
Yet the foolish masses with all their moral behavior largely continued to pay their pricy mortgage, even after the bankers had crashed the market and stolen all their equity. Just walk away and stick the bank with the loss, the loss rightfully belongs to them. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:54 am Post subject: Re: Debt |
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| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| At the time, I couldn't understand it. It made no sense to me how they could afford to financially do this. Then, it became about selling additinal products to people they didn't need. I hate to say it, but certain poor demographics that you could tell over the phone by the way they spoke English were the ones falling into these scams. Made no sense to me and I even spoke up about it. Folks at the top in all their wisdom thought the latest thing was to market bad debt into risky derivatives. They never thought that folks would eventually default on these things? Of course after 2008, this company, along with many others got bailed out by the US government. Go figure. |
Oh they knew, but they were making money, big time. Time for another fun office story...
In 2002 I worked as an analyst in subprime. My job was to analyze portfolio credit risk. Even as a jr analyst it was so obvious this system was not sustainable. We were pushing crappy ARM loans to low IQ customers, taking the loans and securitizing them, and selling them to large institutional investors (like life insurance companies). But of course interest rates would eventually rise, housing prices would eventually stop rising, and our models clearly showed it would be bad.
I naively turned in a few reports to my portfolio manager showing what would happen to default rates in various scenarios. Those reports were shredded. At one point the chick told me to "make the chart go the other way". In other words just flat out lie about the risks. People didn't want to know, too much money being made off the masses. And no penalties for taking risk, they wouldn't personally get stuck with the bill.
Later in 2008 the whole thing blew (5yrs after we issued those crappy ARM loans, the rates adjusted up, and people couldn't pay). And the hilarious thing is they just passed the losses off to the government.
Yet the foolish masses with all their moral behavior largely continued to pay their pricy mortgage, even after the bankers had crashed the market and stolen all their equity. Just walk away and stick the bank with the loss, the loss rightfully belongs to them. |
I can agree with that. But, I think many did walk away. It was funny listening to folks on Fox News asking why folks didn't have "integrity" like the olden days. Pretty ironic if you ask me. (I would have thought integrity ought to have been a two way street.)
Having grown up in a high unemployment sluggish economic growth place, I quickly realized what a high tax government intrusion was good for. Nothing. Folks weren't helped out of poverty, but were kept in it. Without a booming economy, it's too hard to experience social mobility. So, I became a fiscal conservative after growing up more liberally.
However, with regards to this subprime crises and bankers resorting to immoral behaviour, I don't sympathize with any them and think more folks should have defaulted on them. I suppose the only thing keeping more from doing so is the fear of a bad credit rating. Your own story is interesting as it shows the calous disregard for anything truthful and honest. Integrity is lacking. While I believe in making a more business friendly environment for Main St, I wish Wall Street could have had more of it's executives sent to jail.
I worked for a credit card company that initially considered itself a "conservative lender" but after a few years decided to get into the "game" itself. In the American system, both political parties, the lobbyists, it all stinks. I believe in free enterprise, but fair enterprise with rules that apply to everyone. Sadly, we don't seem to have that. Hence these occupy and tea party movements disgusted with the status quo and the "establishment". |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| People do what they have to. I doubt most defaulters are proud of it or even planned to do it. Some debts and financial obligations cannot be eliminated in bankruptcy even though the debtor is effectively bankrupt. I know people who fled their home countries for that very reason. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| People do what they have to. I doubt most defaulters are proud of it or even planned to do it. Some debts and financial obligations cannot be eliminated in bankruptcy even though the debtor is effectively bankrupt. I know people who fled their home countries for that very reason. |
Student loans. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| People do what they have to. I doubt most defaulters are proud of it or even planned to do it. |
Yes and no, dumb people wait until they are backed into a corner and have no options. But there ARE thinking people who weigh options, who plan, and who utilize strategic default when it is the best financial decision. |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| People do what they have to. I doubt most defaulters are proud of it or even planned to do it. Some debts and financial obligations cannot be eliminated in bankruptcy even though the debtor is effectively bankrupt. I know people who fled their home countries for that very reason. |
Student loans. |
Credit cards. alimony, restitution, anything court ordered, back taxes. It's not just debt that drives people out.
If they can't pay it, they can't pay it. I understand that. Not allowing relief whatever the financial burden though drives a potentially solid long term tax payer out of a country quite possibly forever. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| People do what they have to. I doubt most defaulters are proud of it or even planned to do it. Some debts and financial obligations cannot be eliminated in bankruptcy even though the debtor is effectively bankrupt. I know people who fled their home countries for that very reason. |
Student loans. |
Credit cards. alimony, restitution, anything court ordered, back taxes. It's not just debt that drives people out.
If they can't pay it, they can't pay it. I understand that. Not allowing relief whatever the financial burden though drives a potentially solid long term tax payer out of a country quite possibly forever. |
Yes they do. But students loans in Canada use to have interest relief periods where you filed every six months and the government paid the interest while principal remained frozen. Now, I think it has changed to affordable payment relief. When I lived in Canada, being just barely below the cutoff, I paid nothing. But with the new program, I'd have to pay 40 bucks a month. The government would pay the rest of the interest due (but still not the principal). This would suck big time as I lived paycheck to paycheck with only a little left over. Also, I think five or six years was the max so after that you were screwed. Credit Card and other debt below a certain level would leave you being harassed and nothing more as it wouldn't be worth the court costs especially if you declared bankruptcy. If it was 40 or 50 K or more of debt than they might start legal procedings against you. Student loans most definately will.
If you ever do end up being harassed over lower levels of debt, don't anser the phone. Don't make any payments ever, as it's six or seven years from the last time you make a payment. Collections agencies will lie and even have lawyers send registered mail threatening to sue you, but often won't considering the expense for smaller amounts. (This is in Canada anyways.)
Canada has better protections I think, but you're still a second class citizen. If you come here to default, stay here for six or seven years and save lots of money up. At the end of your run, send your money to your parents or family member's account (if you trust them). You can re-open an account back home and transfer the funds from them to you, then.
I don't judge, but after going through years of hell, I don't wish to repeat it and I like having access to credit. If you do come over here to default but have one lower level account you can keep up the payments on, keep that going. In Canada, they won't take it way if you defaulted on other debts especially if it's with other banks. Just keep that one remaining card in good standing (with a second bank). You can even use it to quickly rebuild your credit once the six year time period has passed. (Personal experience).
Defaulting on alimony; that's risky as it could result in legal penalties. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:05 am Post subject: |
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But if you are here hiding out from debt, you will have to stay here and hope you can find work. If you end up in a bad marriage, you have to pray for now being divorced and going through hell. It's a long time and Korea may not be a place you can stay for years on end. Hard to say what Korea will be like over the next several years.
Also, Korean credit cars most foriegners get are not as good as cards back. IE Lower credit limits and non revolving limits, etc. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:16 am Post subject: |
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Let me add, student loans are the worst to default on. If you are or know someone back home thinking of coming over and doing this, try to have a card with another bank. Keep that one and the student loans in good standing by paying on those. Let the rest go if you must. When your credit clears in several years, you'll have good standing and you'll be surprised how quickly your credit limits rise after this and you'll have an easier time transitioning to life back home after this.
Even with these steps, if you come here in your late 20's, it might take you till you're 40, which will be frustrating as it seems your fellow English teachers are partying it up while you're not, but it will work out for you in the end.
Good luck whatever you decide.
(PS America might be different in these regards as may be other countries. You have to research more yourself.) |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
Let me add, student loans are the worst to default on. If you are or know someone back home thinking of coming over and doing this, try to have a card with another bank. Keep that one and the student loans in good standing by paying on those. Let the rest go if you must. When your credit clears in several years, you'll have good standing and you'll be surprised how quickly your credit limits rise after this and you'll have an easier time transitioning to life back home after this.
Even with these steps, if you come here in your late 20's, it might take you till you're 40, which will be frustrating as it seems your fellow English teachers are partying it up while you're not, but it will work out for you in the end.
Good luck whatever you decide.
(PS America might be different in these regards as may be other countries. You have to research more yourself.) |
Student loans can't be discharged in the States... |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Student loans are another sweet finance scam...
You convince everyone they need a college degree, the price of the degree increases with demand, so they need to pay a premium, and it needs to be financed in some manner, and they can't ever get out of paying it back.
Later they find their degree doesn't actually increase their earning power, but they still need to spend decades paying off the balance/interest, with their crappy salary.
Student loan debt in the USA is now greater than $1T, more than credit card debt!! |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I knew a woman back in the States who was in tens of thousands of student loan debt for studying art at a community college. Of course the tuition was never anywhere near that high, most of that is penalties for various pitfalls into which she fell. Penalties are one of the most abusive elements of the finance industry, keeping as they do the people who can least afford it trapped in debt. It's transparently predatory. |
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r2b2ct
Joined: 14 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Yup student loan debt is terrible. I know several people back in the states with over 100k in student loan debt. One guy from a ridiculously expensive private, no name, "christian" university. Another from an ivy league law school who is in over 200k debt. Even those who were able to secure decent jobs will be paying it off for many years. Usually barely chipping away at principal. |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
But if you are here hiding out from debt, you will have to stay here and hope you can find work. If you end up in a bad marriage, you have to pray for now being divorced and going through hell. It's a long time and Korea may not be a place you can stay for years on end. Hard to say what Korea will be like over the next several years.
Also, Korean credit cars most foriegners get are not as good as cards back. IE Lower credit limits and non revolving limits, etc. |
korean credit cards are INFINITELY better than american cards. sure some have low credit limits, but really why does a high schooler who has a minimum wage job need a 10,000 dollar limit on his credit card? having non-revolving limits here is a godsend. makes irresponsible spending very difficult, and their installment system is an incredibly intelligent solution. yes, you have to have a high limit to really take advantage of the installment payments, but it's really set up so that it scales with your ability to pay.
my bank has raised the limit on my cc here based on my actual spending power and it's been very on par with what i need and can realistically handle. koreans drop the bomb on a lot of things in terms of how people use something compared to how they *think* that person will use it (looking at you activex controls...) but credit cards are one area they really hit it out of the ball park. |
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