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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| I've never been in a car accident in Korea, but I've heard that you're at least 10% at fault pretty much no matter what. |
Not true depending on what the parties involved admit to. If one party admits fault, it's their fault 100%. Happened to someone I know. Some asshole ran a red light (even later than is usual around here) and completely trashed their car. He fessed up and his insurance covered the car and his blood money some physiotherapy. I wouldn't be surprised if he were drunk and didn't want too many questions being asked.
Which reminds me of my last, incredibly shitty experience with a car accident in Canada. I was sitting in a parking lot waiting for someone parked, not moving when this SUV backs into my fender. I was looking at a book or something and didn't even see her coming. Anyhow, she plows into my car, does about $2000 worth of damage, gets out and starts yelling at me for hitting her! No cameras (there used to not be cameras everywhere) my early-20-something word against her middle-aged housewife word and her insurance refuses to cover it because she insists it's my fault. I bet her kids in the back seat would have a different story if someone asked them what happened. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Koreas ridiculous blood money system |
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| Cave Dweller wrote: |
| By the (lack of) logic of the system, could I headbutt someone and sue them if I broke my nose or cracked my skull on their hard head? |
That's same law still in force in English Common Law. $  $ (it is silly, I know. Nobody got around to repeal it that's all) |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Koreas ridiculous blood money system |
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| Cave Dweller wrote: |
| By the (lack of) logic of the system, could I headbutt someone and sue them if I broke my nose or cracked my skull on their hard head? |
I've never head-butted anyone so I am no expert, but I would think that if you broke your own nose doing it you are doing something wrong! |
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Cave Dweller
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: Koreas ridiculous blood money system |
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Just using an example to make a point. If someone threw a punch at me wrong and broke his hand I could be liable. The system is ridiculous that it does not consider instigators and encourages faking injuries.
| Sector7G wrote: |
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
| By the (lack of) logic of the system, could I headbutt someone and sue them if I broke my nose or cracked my skull on their hard head? |
I've never head-butted anyone so I am no expert, but I would think that if you broke your own nose doing it you are doing something wrong! |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| yfb wrote: |
So in Korea's system, if I were a rich guy, I could go out and beat the snot out of some random passerby on the street and put them in the hospital. But as long as I pay enough money in compensation, it's ok. Everyone wins: The rich guy can relieve his stress, the target gets a free vacation and money, and the police don't have to do that pesky 'prosecution' thing. |
No it's not. What is with all these supposedly educated people who are unable to understand a basic concept:
Blood money is an alternative solution. Blood money has to be agreed upon by the victim and is only relevant to crimes which are considered "personal" matters.
It's not like paying a fine to get out of jail.
As the victim I can choose to allow you to pay me an amount of money that I decide upon, or I can tell the cops to send it up the ladder and have you sent to court and prosecuted. If I really wanted to, I could send them to court no matter what. Even if they offered me 10 million dollars I could still say no and tell the cops to charge them. People take the money because they feel it is better justice for them than sending people to jail for things which are deemed personal crimes.
| Quote: |
| Just using an example to make a point. If someone threw a punch at me wrong and broke his hand I could be liable. The system is ridiculous that it does not consider instigators and encourages faking injuries. |
No that doesn't happen. The stupid that comes out on this board sometimes.
What does happen is someone takes a swing at someone and rather than call the cops or leave they punch the guy back to a degree that is no longer self defense and get dinged up for his injuries. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| yfb wrote: |
So in Korea's system, if I were a rich guy, I could go out and beat the snot out of some random passerby on the street and put them in the hospital. But as long as I pay enough money in compensation, it's ok. Everyone wins: The rich guy can relieve his stress, the target gets a free vacation and money, and the police don't have to do that pesky 'prosecution' thing. |
No it's not. What is with all these supposedly educated people who are unable to understand a basic concept:
Blood money is an alternative solution. Blood money has to be agreed upon by the victim and is only relevant to crimes which are considered "personal" matters.
It's not like paying a fine to get out of jail.
As the victim I can choose to allow you to pay me an amount of money that I decide upon, or I can tell the cops to send it up the ladder and have you sent to court and prosecuted. If I really wanted to, I could send them to court no matter what. Even if they offered me 10 million dollars I could still say no and tell the cops to charge them. People take the money because they feel it is better justice for them than sending people to jail for things which are deemed personal crimes.
| Quote: |
| Just using an example to make a point. If someone threw a punch at me wrong and broke his hand I could be liable. The system is ridiculous that it does not consider instigators and encourages faking injuries. |
No that doesn't happen. The stupid that comes out on this board sometimes.
What does happen is someone takes a swing at someone and rather than call the cops or leave they punch the guy back to a degree that is no longer self defense and get dinged up for his injuries. |
Maybe that doesn't happen; maybe it does. It probably depends on the guy throwing the punch and who the police side with.
But for certain there are people going about causing car accidents to get paid. So the system can be and is abused. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| yfb wrote: |
So in Korea's system, if I were a rich guy, I could go out and beat the snot out of some random passerby on the street and put them in the hospital. But as long as I pay enough money in compensation, it's ok. Everyone wins: The rich guy can relieve his stress, the target gets a free vacation and money, and the police don't have to do that pesky 'prosecution' thing. |
No it's not. What is with all these supposedly educated people who are unable to understand a basic concept:
Blood money is an alternative solution. Blood money has to be agreed upon by the victim and is only relevant to crimes which are considered "personal" matters.
It's not like paying a fine to get out of jail.
As the victim I can choose to allow you to pay me an amount of money that I decide upon, or I can tell the cops to send it up the ladder and have you sent to court and prosecuted. If I really wanted to, I could send them to court no matter what. Even if they offered me 10 million dollars I could still say no and tell the cops to charge them. People take the money because they feel it is better justice for them than sending people to jail for things which are deemed personal crimes.
| Quote: |
| Just using an example to make a point. If someone threw a punch at me wrong and broke his hand I could be liable. The system is ridiculous that it does not consider instigators and encourages faking injuries. |
No that doesn't happen. The stupid that comes out on this board sometimes.
What does happen is someone takes a swing at someone and rather than call the cops or leave they punch the guy back to a degree that is no longer self defense and get dinged up for his injuries. |
Maybe that doesn't happen; maybe it does. It probably depends on the guy throwing the punch and who the police side with.
But for certain there are people going about causing car accidents to get paid. So the system can be and is abused. |
Given the blathering ignorance that appears when topics like this comes up, hyperbole doesn't really strengthen the point.
Yes, you can cause accidents and not be at fault. You can do the same thing in a lot of countries, hardly unique to here. If you drive in front of someone, slam on your breaks, they'll be at fault because they were behind you.
Insurance fraud is a big business in many places. So I'm not sure what your point is when you bring that up. The thread was about a few people who can't wrap their feeble little minds around basic concepts. It doesn't' remotely act like they think it does, and I think that is more or less the point here. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| yfb wrote: |
So in Korea's system, if I were a rich guy, I could go out and beat the snot out of some random passerby on the street and put them in the hospital. But as long as I pay enough money in compensation, it's ok. Everyone wins: The rich guy can relieve his stress, the target gets a free vacation and money, and the police don't have to do that pesky 'prosecution' thing. |
No it's not. What is with all these supposedly educated people who are unable to understand a basic concept:
Blood money is an alternative solution. Blood money has to be agreed upon by the victim and is only relevant to crimes which are considered "personal" matters.
It's not like paying a fine to get out of jail.
As the victim I can choose to allow you to pay me an amount of money that I decide upon, or I can tell the cops to send it up the ladder and have you sent to court and prosecuted. If I really wanted to, I could send them to court no matter what. Even if they offered me 10 million dollars I could still say no and tell the cops to charge them. People take the money because they feel it is better justice for them than sending people to jail for things which are deemed personal crimes.
| Quote: |
| Just using an example to make a point. If someone threw a punch at me wrong and broke his hand I could be liable. The system is ridiculous that it does not consider instigators and encourages faking injuries. |
No that doesn't happen. The stupid that comes out on this board sometimes.
What does happen is someone takes a swing at someone and rather than call the cops or leave they punch the guy back to a degree that is no longer self defense and get dinged up for his injuries. |
Maybe that doesn't happen; maybe it does. It probably depends on the guy throwing the punch and who the police side with.
But for certain there are people going about causing car accidents to get paid. So the system can be and is abused. |
Given the blathering ignorance that appears when topics like this comes up, hyperbole doesn't really strengthen the point.
Yes, you can cause accidents and not be at fault. You can do the same thing in a lot of countries, hardly unique to here. If you drive in front of someone, slam on your breaks, they'll be at fault because they were behind you.
Insurance fraud is a big business in many places. So I'm not sure what your point is when you bring that up. The thread was about a few people who can't wrap their feeble little minds around basic concepts. It doesn't' remotely act like they think it does, and I think that is more or less the point here. |
I think insurance fraud is a misnomer since accidents are often settled privately in Korea and the con I'm talking about is
for cash. If the insurance company gets involved, there's only so many times you can pull that scam.
As to your point, I don't think it's a misunderstanding to say that blood money, in effect, often buys one a get out of jail free card. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
I think insurance fraud is a misnomer since accidents are often settled privately in Korea and the con I'm talking about is
for cash. If the insurance company gets involved, there's only so many times you can pull that scam.
As to your point, I don't think it's a misunderstanding to say that blood money, in effect, often buys one a get out of jail free card. |
You didn't read about the Korean guy who was claiming free gas under his insurance program for "running out" several times a day for a very long time? I think he did it hundreds of times before being caught.
It is not a get out of jail free card, it is an alternative option for justice that the victim has. It's not free, because they have to pay for it and the victim has to agree to it. If the victim agrees to it, who are we to tell them otherwise? Were we the ones wronged? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
I think insurance fraud is a misnomer since accidents are often settled privately in Korea and the con I'm talking about is
for cash. If the insurance company gets involved, there's only so many times you can pull that scam.
As to your point, I don't think it's a misunderstanding to say that blood money, in effect, often buys one a get out of jail free card. |
You didn't read about the Korean guy who was claiming free gas under his insurance program for "running out" several times a day for a very long time? I think he did it hundreds of times before being caught.
It is not a get out of jail free card, it is an alternative option for justice that the victim has. It's not free, because they have to pay for it and the victim has to agree to it. If the victim agrees to it, who are we to tell them otherwise? Were we the ones wronged? |
If the guilty go free, everyone is wronged.
In a system in which all it takes is money to escape the consequences, justice is not being served. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
I think insurance fraud is a misnomer since accidents are often settled privately in Korea and the con I'm talking about is
for cash. If the insurance company gets involved, there's only so many times you can pull that scam.
As to your point, I don't think it's a misunderstanding to say that blood money, in effect, often buys one a get out of jail free card. |
You didn't read about the Korean guy who was claiming free gas under his insurance program for "running out" several times a day for a very long time? I think he did it hundreds of times before being caught.
It is not a get out of jail free card, it is an alternative option for justice that the victim has. It's not free, because they have to pay for it and the victim has to agree to it. If the victim agrees to it, who are we to tell them otherwise? Were we the ones wronged? |
If the guilty go free, everyone is wronged.
In a system in which all it takes is money to escape the consequences, justice is not being served. |
I'm just wondering, are you being intentionally obtuse, or is this just natural for you?
It doesn't just take money. It takes the consent of the victim. The system allows, for some crimes, the victim to set their own justice, what they deem fit for how they've been wronged.
We don't lock everyone up for everything (outside of America) in the west do we? Are there not plenty of crimes which are nothing more than fines, or suspended sentences, or probation or community service, etc. ? Are you suggesting that anyone who makes the slightest transgression be sentenced to hard labour?
Furthermore, while commonly money, the victim doesn't even have to take money. He could take anything. If he was hit by a car, and the car is fine, he could demand the car as restitution and the person who committed the crime could either agree to that or face the courts. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
I think insurance fraud is a misnomer since accidents are often settled privately in Korea and the con I'm talking about is
for cash. If the insurance company gets involved, there's only so many times you can pull that scam.
As to your point, I don't think it's a misunderstanding to say that blood money, in effect, often buys one a get out of jail free card. |
You didn't read about the Korean guy who was claiming free gas under his insurance program for "running out" several times a day for a very long time? I think he did it hundreds of times before being caught.
It is not a get out of jail free card, it is an alternative option for justice that the victim has. It's not free, because they have to pay for it and the victim has to agree to it. If the victim agrees to it, who are we to tell them otherwise? Were we the ones wronged? |
If the guilty go free, everyone is wronged.
In a system in which all it takes is money to escape the consequences, justice is not being served. |
I'm just wondering, are you being intentionally obtuse, or is this just natural for you?
It doesn't just take money. It takes the consent of the victim. The system allows, for some crimes, the victim to set their own justice, what they deem fit for how they've been wronged.
We don't lock everyone up for everything (outside of America) in the west do we? Are there not plenty of crimes which are nothing more than fines, or suspended sentences, or probation or community service, etc. ? Are you suggesting that anyone who makes the slightest transgression be sentenced to hard labour?
Furthermore, while commonly money, the victim doesn't even have to take money. He could take anything. If he was hit by a car, and the car is fine, he could demand the car as restitution and the person who committed the crime could either agree to that or face the courts. |
I stand by my post. If you can buy your way out, justice is not being served; it's being circumvented.
If you can't pay you go to jail. Of course in the not that distant past, you could end up being a slave.
But if you can pay, you can get break the law to your heart's content. I remember when police actually stopped speeders and many drivers kept a 10,000 won note attached to their visor to pay the cops off. They cracked down on the bribery--a form of blood money--and cops now do almost nothing about traffic violations.
These are tribal customs. They weaken the rule of law. Their time has passed. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
I stand by my post. If you can buy your way out, justice is not being served; it's being circumvented.
If you can't pay you go to jail. Of course in the not that distant past, you could end up being a slave.
But if you can pay, you can get break the law to your heart's content. I remember when police actually stopped speeders and many drivers kept a 10,000 won note attached to their visor to pay the cops off. They cracked down on the bribery--a form of blood money--and cops now do almost nothing about traffic violations.
These are tribal customs. They weaken the rule of law. Their time has passed. |
I really wouldn't if I were you, it's a pretty ignorant post. Do you really think rich people all around the world don't buy themselves out of trouble all the time?
You realize that many crimes in many places require someone to "press charges", and without victim cooperation the police can't do much. While there isn't a formal "blood money" system in some places, rich people are just as capable of saying "How much would it cost to have you not press charges?"
That's not to say the blood money system is a legal system in Korea either. It isn't.
It works like this:
1. Someone goes to the police to make a complaint about a personal crime.
2. The police suggest the parties attempt to find a solution themselves.
3. If they come to a solution the complainant withdraws their complaint and everyone goes on their merry way.
4. If they can't, the police proceed with formal charges.
How is that any different than the police showing up to break up a fight somewhere and the two people involved in the fight saying "Don't worry about it neither of us are pressing charges"?
| Quote: |
| I remember when police actually stopped speeders and many drivers kept a 10,000 won note attached to their visor to pay the cops off. They cracked down on the bribery--a form of blood money--and cops now do almost nothing about traffic violations. |
Unless you've been here 20 years, I really doubt that you do. Koreans I know remember that from the early to mid 90s. Not after.
That also used to be common years ago in many western countries, it's not common there now, and it's not common here, so what exactly is the point of bring that up? Trying to move the focus off your ridiculous stance?
| Quote: |
But if you can pay, you can get break the law to your heart's content |
No you can't. That's simply false. The victim chooses an alternative form of justice than the criminal system and declines to press charges. Same thing happens in other countries too, we just don't call it "blood money". Even if you can pay if the victim declines an alternative, you're going to jail, your money won't help you. Furthermore this doesn't apply to all crimes, only a select number of crimes designated "personal crimes", this does not include sex crimes, or a host of other things. it generally applies to things like traffic accidents, personal assaults, libel, and other things like that. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
I stand by my post. If you can buy your way out, justice is not being served; it's being circumvented.
If you can't pay you go to jail. Of course in the not that distant past, you could end up being a slave.
But if you can pay, you can get break the law to your heart's content. I remember when police actually stopped speeders and many drivers kept a 10,000 won note attached to their visor to pay the cops off. They cracked down on the bribery--a form of blood money--and cops now do almost nothing about traffic violations.
These are tribal customs. They weaken the rule of law. Their time has passed. |
I really wouldn't if I were you, it's a pretty ignorant post. Do you really think rich people all around the world don't buy themselves out of trouble all the time?
You realize that many crimes in many places require someone to "press charges", and without victim cooperation the police can't do much. While there isn't a formal "blood money" system in some places, rich people are just as capable of saying "How much would it cost to have you not press charges?"
That's not to say the blood money system is a legal system in Korea either. It isn't.
It works like this:
1. Someone goes to the police to make a complaint about a personal crime.
2. The police suggest the parties attempt to find a solution themselves.
3. If they come to a solution the complainant withdraws their complaint and everyone goes on their merry way.
4. If they can't, the police proceed with formal charges.
How is that any different than the police showing up to break up a fight somewhere and the two people involved in the fight saying "Don't worry about it neither of us are pressing charges"?
| Quote: |
| I remember when police actually stopped speeders and many drivers kept a 10,000 won note attached to their visor to pay the cops off. They cracked down on the bribery--a form of blood money--and cops now do almost nothing about traffic violations. |
Unless you've been here 20 years, I really doubt that you do. Koreans I know remember that from the early to mid 90s. Not after.
That also used to be common years ago in many western countries, it's not common there now, and it's not common here, so what exactly is the point of bring that up? Trying to move the focus off your ridiculous stance?
| Quote: |
But if you can pay, you can get break the law to your heart's content |
No you can't. That's simply false. The victim chooses an alternative form of justice than the criminal system and declines to press charges. Same thing happens in other countries too, we just don't call it "blood money". Even if you can pay if the victim declines an alternative, you're going to jail, your money won't help you. Furthermore this doesn't apply to all crimes, only a select number of crimes designated "personal crimes", this does not include sex crimes, or a host of other things. it generally applies to things like traffic accidents, personal assaults, libel, and other things like that. |
Nothing ridiculous about my stance. Yes, mid-90s is when I was talking about.
The example shows how bribery--blood money--leads to corruption.
As does your example. You go to the police station, they size up the offender, decide he's too big to take on and advise you to take some hush money. And it most assuredly does apply to sex crimes. You don't think teachers or students who've sexually abused students pay them off to stay quiet about it?
I'll stand by my post. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
Nothing ridiculous about my stance. Yes, mid-90s is when I was talking about.
The example shows how bribery--blood money--leads to corruption.
As does your example. You go to the police station, they size up the offender, decide he's too big to take on and advise you to take some hush money. And it most assuredly does apply to sex crimes. You don't think teachers or students who've sexually abused students pay them off to stay quiet about it?
I'll stand by my post. |
Then you can stand by your ignorance. The government changed the law so that they can proceed on sex crimes without the victim's cooperation awhile ago. Meaning they can't withdraw the complaint if an agreement has been reached. it's sad how the ignorant are so cocksure, the rest of your drivel has about as much value. So yes, stand by your ignorance and wear it like the proud troll badge it is. |
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