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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
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| 4. If there's anything to be done about other, minor breaches of contract that we should roll into our larger complaint (when we moved in our apartment was completely unfurnished, he neglected to start a pension fund or get us health insurance or an ARC for the first four months we were here, we've been working reduced hours lately for less pay basically without a choice). |
Failure to start a pension fund isn't a minor violation of the contract; it's breaking the law. Same goes for the National Health.
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True. I'll add some details to that.
The pension can be paid later without penalty. So it's possible for the employer and employee to pay into it months after the work period. So if both of you pay into it now, there will be no big problem.
The boss should have been paying into health insurance from the beginning and if you'd gone to the LB back then, they would have told him to get moving. In the end, you'll have to pay for it, whether or not you were registered or not. If you're registered now then it's been paid for the whole period you were employed (including the first 4 months) unless something fishy has been going on (in which case you probably shouldn't bring it up at this point because they'll just take it from you now).
| CentralCali wrote: |
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| Basically I'm looking at a much smaller community and much less local resources that might help me out which is an issue. |
The NPS and Labor Board are, essentially, the same throughout the country. All you have to really worry about is getting someone who is fluent in Korean and English to work as your trnaslator at the Labor Board.
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Note to the OP (and others in a similar situation). Many LB offices have someone who can speak English. If you do need a translator, it can be anyone (e.g. a friend). It doesn't need to be anyone with a certificate or authorization or whatever.
| CentralCali wrote: |
I'm not sure about Porksta's figuring. I may be incorrect, but I thought the computation for severance pay was based on completed whole years. I'll be happy to be proven wrong on that.
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It's calculated based on how much time you worked. It doesn't start until you've completed 12 months but beyond that it's calculated based on time. Severance is 1/12 of your salary multiplied by how many months you've worked. The "salary" is calculated based on the average monthly salary of the last 3 months. So, if you started at 2.2 million per month and received a raise after your first year (2.4 million per month) and then worked for six more months, you would get paid 1/12 of 2.4 million Won multiplied by 18 (for 18 months) --> essentially you'd get 1.5 times your monthly salary - in other words, 3.6 million Won.
In the OP's case, it's not really clear what happened after their first year so it's hard to say for sure how much they would actually be owed. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| Okay. You're in a sticky wicket regarding the renewal. You were certainly working "off visa". And you would have been informed of that when you got your visa renewed; you probably even paid a penalty fee for renewing the lapsed visa. So to prove to the Labor Board that you were continuously employed, you will also prove that you were working illegally. |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:25 am Post subject: |
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yeah okay that is super helpful I genuinely appreciate it.
gonna put Troglodyte on my good folk list here.
and i've got no idea how the pension thing worked. it was super fishy and I've been trying to get it right forever. he actually compensated us in cash for our half of the first four months when we called him out on it, but it's worrying to think that him doing this could potentially get the whole thing revoked. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| The pension can be paid later without penalty. So it's possible for the employer and employee to pay into it months after the work period. So if both of you pay into it now, there will be no big problem. |
Good information. Another thing is that if, in the opinion of the investigator/examiner at the NPS, the boss was intentionally not paying, then the fine can be levied.
| Quote: |
| The boss should have been paying into health insurance from the beginning and if you'd gone to the LB back then, they would have told him to get moving. In the end, you'll have to pay for it, whether or not you were registered or not. If you're registered now then it's been paid for the whole period you were employed (including the first 4 months) unless something fishy has been going on (in which case you probably shouldn't bring it up at this point because they'll just take it from you now). |
Yep. You can probably find more than a handful of posters on this site who were surprised when they got dunned for massive back payments for the National Health.
| Quote: |
| Note to the OP (and others in a similar situation). Many LB offices have someone who can speak English. If you do need a translator, it can be anyone (e.g. a friend). It doesn't need to be anyone with a certificate or authorization or whatever. |
When we three foreigners (one Chinese, one Canadian, and this American) went to the LB about our lying boss, we lucked out--there was a young man, fluent in spoken English, sort of okay with written English, assigned to that LB office to perform his national service. As you can say, all the board wants is someone who can do the communicating for you.
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| It's calculated based on how much time you worked. It doesn't start until you've completed 12 months but beyond that it's calculated based on time. Severance is 1/12 of your salary multiplied by how many months you've worked. The "salary" is calculated based on the average monthly salary of the last 3 months. So, if you started at 2.2 million per month and received a raise after your first year (2.4 million per month) and then worked for six more months, you would get paid 1/12 of 2.4 million Won multiplied by 18 (for 18 months) --> essentially you'd get 1.5 times your monthly salary - in other words, 3.6 million Won. |
Hey, that's great information! As I said in my posting, I'm delighted that I was mistaken on how it's figured.
| Quote: |
| In the OP's case, it's not really clear what happened after their first year so it's hard to say for sure how much they would actually be owed. |
Seems to be "rock and a hard place": admit working illegally to get it, or don't tell the government about the illegal work thus losing the severance. |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Okay. You're in a sticky wicket regarding the renewal. You were certainly working "off visa". And you would have been informed of that when you got your visa renewed; you probably even paid a penalty fee for renewing the lapsed visa. So to prove to the Labor Board that you were continuously employed, you will also prove that you were working illegally. |
right right that is the situation. we actually got a notice from them telling us what was going on and I had to basically kick my boss over the the immigration office to renew.
i've got no idea what happened at the beginning of our first contract but it was the same situation. we were just sort of naive and didn't really realize how important getting our ARC was and so that ended up taking months.
the whole things been a lot of mistakes and getting taken advantage of for not knowing certain things, and then also knowing certain things and still not being able to get the guy to comply.
which I guess is a pretty typical sob story in this business but man, it is a pain to go through. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| cobre001 wrote: |
| and i've got no idea how the pension thing worked. it was super fishy and I've been trying to get it right forever. he actually compensated us in cash for our half of the first four months when we called him out on it, but it's worrying to think that him doing this could potentially get the whole thing revoked. |
It does't get revoked. It gets settled up. Meaning: you pay all your back payments, the boss pays all his back payments. This is done in one fell swoop; there are no installment plans.
And, just in case you don't know: the boss has never paid your pension payments, neither your contributions nor his. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| cobre001 wrote: |
yeah this is really heplful.
basically what happened with that one month period is that we renewed, and when we did he failed to get our paperwork done for a few weeks. so for one month we were probably working off visa, though even that I'm not totally sure about. it's a bad situation but we're very short on paperwork to even know that for sure. we finished our first contract on January 28, and didn't actually get a new one until maybe March 5 or so. He just paid us out of pocket.
and the problem with the pension is that we already paid out half to him, but he basically pocketed it and never deposited it in our account. as of now there's about $670 in the account (I think April through July and then part of September) but the rest of it he just kept. I get the impression from talking to him though that paying off the pension is the only thing he's really worried about, so I do think that will come through somehow. he mentioned that the pension board has been harassing him already.
and yeah I am torn about sticking around and fighting for the money or just getting out. part of me can't deal with the stress anymore and part of me wants to stick it to the guy. anyway it's something I've been talking about with my gf, I'm not sure what we'll decide on.
thanks though! I appreciate it. |
In this case, you're mostly likely on record as having continual employment. If you didn't need to submit a whole new set of documents then your contract was extended and your ARC period of validity was also extended. Don't bring up the topic at the LB or elsewhere. Just say that you extended your contract for a second year and that's all you know.
If you paid into pension and have pay slips showing this then you're in the clear. You just go to the pension office and file a complaint. The pension office won't keep harassing him for long. They'll eventually just have the money taken from his bank accounts. It could take a couple of months though. Depends on how busy they are. In the end, they'll take it.
I highly recommend that you find a new job and tell the new employer your situation and that you don't intend to stay in Korea long for more than 4 months. Offer to accept a lower than normal salary as long as some kind of accommodation is included. You could even offer to take something like 1 million Won each and work half time (maybe each of you teaches 12 or 15 hours per week or that you work a total of 25-30 hours per week total). That would give you plenty of free time (time to go to the LB and pension offices) and cover any expenses you have. Even if you don't get paid at the new place, just having a place to stay will cover most of your expenses. There are a lot of schools that would accept that situation because it's really to their benefit. They get two foreign faces, it costs them less, you can start right away. There are a lot of school owners who also own an apartment so they don't have to worry about rental contracts. There are more than a few who actually house teachers in the school (although they aren't supposed to). Most of your stress now is because you have to deal with the school owner on a daily basis and you are uncertain about what's coming next. If you're no longer under his control things will be different. Plus, you'll be kicking yourself later if you don't at least try to get your money. |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| cobre001 wrote: |
| and i've got no idea how the pension thing worked. it was super fishy and I've been trying to get it right forever. he actually compensated us in cash for our half of the first four months when we called him out on it, but it's worrying to think that him doing this could potentially get the whole thing revoked. |
It does't get revoked. It gets settled up. Meaning: you pay all your back payments, the boss pays all his back payments. This is done in one fell swoop; there are no installment plans.
And, just in case you don't know: the boss has never paid your pension payments, neither your contributions nor his. |
i've talked to the pension office? they give me a sum (670,000 ish) when I call? is this meaningless? why's that? |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| cobre001 wrote: |
yeah this is really heplful.
basically what happened with that one month period is that we renewed, and when we did he failed to get our paperwork done for a few weeks. so for one month we were probably working off visa, though even that I'm not totally sure about. it's a bad situation but we're very short on paperwork to even know that for sure. we finished our first contract on January 28, and didn't actually get a new one until maybe March 5 or so. He just paid us out of pocket.
and the problem with the pension is that we already paid out half to him, but he basically pocketed it and never deposited it in our account. as of now there's about $670 in the account (I think April through July and then part of September) but the rest of it he just kept. I get the impression from talking to him though that paying off the pension is the only thing he's really worried about, so I do think that will come through somehow. he mentioned that the pension board has been harassing him already.
and yeah I am torn about sticking around and fighting for the money or just getting out. part of me can't deal with the stress anymore and part of me wants to stick it to the guy. anyway it's something I've been talking about with my gf, I'm not sure what we'll decide on.
thanks though! I appreciate it. |
In this case, you're mostly likely on record as having continual employment. If you didn't need to submit a whole new set of documents then your contract was extended and your ARC period of validity was also extended. Don't bring up the topic at the LB or elsewhere. Just say that you extended your contract for a second year and that's all you know.
If you paid into pension and have pay slips showing this then you're in the clear. You just go to the pension office and file a complaint. The pension office won't keep harassing him for long. They'll eventually just have the money taken from his bank accounts. It could take a couple of months though. Depends on how busy they are. In the end, they'll take it.
I highly recommend that you find a new job and tell the new employer your situation and that you don't intend to stay in Korea long for more than 4 months. Offer to accept a lower than normal salary as long as some kind of accommodation is included. You could even offer to take something like 1 million Won each and work half time (maybe each of you teaches 12 or 15 hours per week or that you work a total of 25-30 hours per week total). That would give you plenty of free time (time to go to the LB and pension offices) and cover any expenses you have. Even if you don't get paid at the new place, just having a place to stay will cover most of your expenses. There are a lot of schools that would accept that situation because it's really to their benefit. They get two foreign faces, it costs them less, you can start right away. There are a lot of school owners who also own an apartment so they don't have to worry about rental contracts. There are more than a few who actually house teachers in the school (although they aren't supposed to). Most of your stress now is because you have to deal with the school owner on a daily basis and you are uncertain about what's coming next. If you're no longer under his control things will be different. Plus, you'll be kicking yourself later if you don't at least try to get your money. |
Yeah that is all true and good advice.
I'll poke around for something temporary maybe. I'm meeting with the guy in an hour so we'll see how that goes. |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| cobre001 wrote: |
| and i've got no idea how the pension thing worked. it was super fishy and I've been trying to get it right forever. he actually compensated us in cash for our half of the first four months when we called him out on it, but it's worrying to think that him doing this could potentially get the whole thing revoked. |
It does't get revoked. It gets settled up. Meaning: you pay all your back payments, the boss pays all his back payments. This is done in one fell swoop; there are no installment plans.
And, just in case you don't know: the boss has never paid your pension payments, neither your contributions nor his. |
hm, do you think i'd have to pay into the pension a second time to settle my half? he basically just deducted it from our paycheck and told us he was depositing it. it'd probably be worth it regardless, but it'd still be an expense to budget in. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| cobre001 wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| cobre001 wrote: |
| and i've got no idea how the pension thing worked. it was super fishy and I've been trying to get it right forever. he actually compensated us in cash for our half of the first four months when we called him out on it, but it's worrying to think that him doing this could potentially get the whole thing revoked. |
It does't get revoked. It gets settled up. Meaning: you pay all your back payments, the boss pays all his back payments. This is done in one fell swoop; there are no installment plans.
And, just in case you don't know: the boss has never paid your pension payments, neither your contributions nor his. |
hm, do you think i'd have to pay into the pension a second time to settle my half? he basically just deducted it from our paycheck and told us he was depositing it. it'd probably be worth it regardless, but it'd still be an expense to budget in. |
You'll have to prove that he deducted it from your pay. If you have a pay slip showing deductions, that will do. If not, you might have to show your contract and bank statements to show how much you were owed and how much was actually deposited and hopefully the difference is very close to the various taxes you're supposed to pay.
If you're leaving the country, there's not much the pension office can do to you. If you plan on sticking around for more than a few months or coming back to work later, you'll be responsible for paying the pension payments. Ultimately YOU are responsible for the payments. If the school closes up and the pension office can't get the money from the old boss, they'll come after you for the full amount. But that would take a months or likely years to happen. They'll go after the boss for his half (as long as you've paid your half first). So I wouldn't worry about it. I'm just putting it out there so that it's known. It's probably more useful for others in this situation in the future. |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| okay I see thanks for that |
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cobre001
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:08 am Post subject: |
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ah one other thing I'm confused about.
so if I initially file a complaint citing the diminished paychecks and maybe pension (it seems like that's what I can do right now) can I amend it once new grievances come up?
my May paycheck isn't technically two weeks overdue yet (it will be in like, six days) and as for June that's obviously not overdue. should I wait until the May one is due or just go all in as soon as possible with what I have? |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| cobre001 wrote: |
ah one other thing I'm confused about.
so if I initially file a complaint citing the diminished paychecks and maybe pension (it seems like that's what I can do right now) can I amend it once new grievances come up?
my May paycheck isn't technically two weeks overdue yet (it will be in like, six days) and as for June that's obviously not overdue. should I wait until the May one is due or just go all in as soon as possible with what I have? |
Don't bother complaining about pension. The LB won't care about it. It's not something that they deal with. All that they'll do is tell you the same thing that others here have told you --> Go to the pension office to file a complaint.
You can file additional complaints against the school. In fact, it's quite common. Sometimes (often?) after the first complaint for something, the boss fires the teacher on the spot. So the teacher goes back to the LB to give this update and it's added to the complaint.
BUT.... you really should wait the extra couple of days so that you can complain about all of it at the same time. It will likely get a stronger reaction from the LB guy that you talk to.
If your boss is talking about providing you with a ticket home, ask him instead for the cash value of the ticket. Tell him that you're going to do a bit of tourism in Korea and elsewhere in Asia before heading back home. If he knows that you'll be around for a while (or back soon) then he's more likely to pay up. Having the cash also means that YOU can decide when you leave. It gives you an option. |
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FastForward
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't feel like quoting the long post before, but from my experience the labor board and national pension office is not the same thing. The pension office actually doesn't even handle dispute matters and the labor board won't handle back pension. There is another office you have to call. They basically call the school and tell them to pay the back pension. They have been worthless in my attempt to get my back pension.
The labor board will handle the back pay and severance. They will usually call first and strongly suggest the school pay it. After they don't pay it, you will meet with the owner at the labor board and work out the situation.
The good thing is the school is still open and they have plenty of students. If they are able to continue on, then they should be able to pay everything owed to you. If you guys are moving out of the officetel and aren't being replaced, the school should be getting the key money back on the place. So there is some money somewhere to be used. |
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