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Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Blue wrote: |
| you can see it in many aspects of the culture. for example in computer games koreans use cheats and hacks alot more than other cultures and they think its fine and if you beat the game with a hack its just as good as winning on the hardest difficulty.. in fact winning on the hardest difficulty is quite senceless to them. in the west using a computer hack or cheat code in a game is usually saved for after beating the game the real way or reaching an impassable point. or simply for the fun of it but with the understanding that your not really getting the full experiance. |
I have forgotten more about video and computer games than you will ever learn in your entire life, and I am telling you that have no idea what you are talking about as you are simply making things up. |
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Blue

Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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It truely pains me that you may have spent more time in your life playing video games than me. .. I guess your just better than me. I mean .. you can even out-forget me.
by the way .. who are you again and how do you know so much about me?
maybe you dont relate to the example, call it a differnce of expiriances, but the point of the post is that koreans in general favor the easy out even when it seems like they are doing something the hard way they are actually in most casses simply doing something the way that every one else has doen it in order to avoid the stress of working out a new way. |
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Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| kylehawkins2000 wrote: |
| The system teaches the students to memorize facts, not to think creatively. As a result there is little or no innovation coming out of Korea. Look at their art schools (or lack of) as an example. It seems like someone is considered a good artist or musician if they are able to closely replicate famous songs or paitings of other people. |
The system is remarkably similiar to Japan, and Japan pumps out a bazzlion interesting products a week.
Plus you're ignoring export products like BoA who is only second to Ayumi Hamasaki in terms of dollars spent on in the Asian market. Though why she is outselling Utada Hikaru is unknown to me.
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| Even look at the number of innovations that have come out of the west compared to what has come out of Korea. Korea has produced little or no significant innovations a couple of hundred years. Can anyone name a famous korean inventor since King Sejong invented Hangeul? |
The portable MP3 player was invented in Korea. Rumour has it that this is somewhat significant given that millions of portable MP3 players a year are now sold.
Though what is this "the west" thing? "The west" is an empire of over a billion people that have spent 18 bazillion dollars a day for decades. Korea in contrast is a rather new country having only recently joined the first world nation club. And universities in Korea are somewhat a new idea with nearly all universities and colleges in Korea being less than 30 years old. I certainly hope that "the west" is kicking Korea's ass in the invention department.
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| I can forsee major economic problems arising in Korea if drastic changes are not made to the education system and to society at large. Similar circumstances in Japan have helped lead to an economic recession that has lasted more than a decade. |
I was unaware that overstated property values tied to defunct loans which limited new credit dispursals and a forced employment system where surpluss employees were required by law are factors in Korea. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Blue wrote: |
| but the point of the post is that koreans in general favor the easy out even when it seems like they are doing something the hard way they are actually in most casses simply doing something the way that every one else has doen it in order to avoid the stress of working out a new way. |
And how do you know this? Have you spoken to most Koreans and comprised a poll based on these results? Or are you just talking out of your beep? |
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Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Blue wrote: |
| It truely pains me that you may have spent more time in your life playing video games than me. .. I guess your just better than me. I mean .. you can even out-forget me. |
You're basing how the world works on personal anecdotal stories. I'm telling you how the world really works have dealt with thousands, nay, tens of thousands of people in both the development and distribution of all things gaming. Though I never said that I played more video games than you.
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| maybe you dont relate to the example, call it a differnce of expiriances, but the point of the post is that koreans in general favor the easy out even when it seems like they are doing something the hard way they are actually in most casses simply doing something the way that every one else has doen it in order to avoid the stress of working out a new way. |
What a lovely anecdotal story based on a very minor sampling pool with no qualifications or contrasts of the anounced conclusion. |
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Eazy_E

Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Location: British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| bibimbap wrote: |
How many here are Canadians?
How's your French?
It's the same thing (and Spanish for Americans). We 'learn' French from an early age; many of us have 10 or more years of classroom French, but our spoken French is dreadful.
I went and lived in Quebec for a 2 month exchange and my French improved more in a single month than in the previous ten years of 3x40m classes/week.
Though Canada is a 'bilingual' culture, we resist French in the English provinces in many ways. How many French movies have you seen at the theatres? (and there are many good ones; a Canadian French movie won an Academy Award last year... yet it wasn't showing in a single theater outside Toronto).
Having said that, I'm not 'ashamed' or 'embarrassed' to speak French with a francophone. I just returned from Thailand and had many enlightening conversations with French people. I can't, however, say the same for Koreans. They would not speak to me in English *or* Korean.
Korea is an insulated culture. They've created an insulated world for themselves in this little plot of peninsula and it's difficult for anything to come (or go) through the barrier they've built.
...including knowledge. Cultural and linguistic. |
I don't think the situation of French in Canada can be compared to English in Korea. For Canadians, French is not really forced on us in the same way that English is in Korea. Many people study it because it sounds beautiful, they want to travel, make French friends, etc. any number of reasons other than being compelled to study it.
Sure, some of us suck at speaking French because we don't get the practice. But if English was seen as something cool to do as opposed to just a bitter medicine, I think Koreans would really improve. But how long will it take for that to happen... pfft who knows. |
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Blue

Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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hm... well its not a big deal to get excited over convincing you about but some things to point out.
1) there are exceptions to every rule
2) culture and history has alot to do with the current asian pop music. thus korean pop success in asia is bassed on 2 primary factors A) people hate japanese in most asian countries B) koreans are great applying a "formula" for sucess no one can denie that. they are simply not good at thinking outside of the box.
I hope you dont missunderstand. I am not really feeling negative toward korans just focusing on something that i see as negative. I know of a car desighner at hyundai. cool guy. great ideas. things that make you say WOW. but he shows it to his boss and the boss says... "No.. No.. make it look more like a mustang, or Accord, or BMW" Koreans find an idea and stick with it. and they are very good at takeing that idea to its extream posibilities. but they are very bad at teaching, understanding, or accepting though which does not fit in their innitial idea of acceptable.
you know why very few people will think koreans invented the portable MP3? because koreans themselves did not accept the product untill it was a hit in the west. |
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Blue

Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Blue wrote: |
| but the point of the post is that koreans in general favor the easy out even when it seems like they are doing something the hard way they are actually in most casses simply doing something the way that every one else has doen it in order to avoid the stress of working out a new way. |
And how do you know this? Have you spoken to most Koreans and comprised a poll based on these results? Or are you just talking out of your beep? |
its a hobby of mine to observe people and cultures. i have been in korea going on 5 years and have observed alot. the things that i say here are accepted as true even by many koreans. |
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Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Eazy_E wrote: |
| I don't think the situation of French in Canada can be compared to English in Korea. For Canadians, French is not really forced on us in the same way that English is in Korea. Many people study it because it sounds beautiful, they want to travel, make French friends, etc. any number of reasons other than being compelled to study it. |
I'm going to be Captain Anecdotal here, but where I am from in Canada we have no choice but to study French. And if you fail, you get to take it again until you get it right. Though if anyone asks, I tell people I loved French 9 so much that I took it twice.
Of all the people I know, I only know of two people who studied French because they wanted to. And that was because they had immigrated from Quebec and wanted to be able to talk to their parents in French better as their parents had only taught them English since they were six years old. |
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Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Blue wrote: |
| you know why very few people will think koreans invented the portable MP3? because koreans themselves did not accept the product untill it was a hit in the west. |
Oh really? Are you suggesting that it wasn't because most units were $400 or more while the target consumers primarily made minimum wage which amounted to $1.30US an hour?
I don't believe you've thought your position through or done any research. |
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Blue

Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| Blue wrote: |
| you know why very few people will think koreans invented the portable MP3? because koreans themselves did not accept the product untill it was a hit in the west. |
Oh really? Are you suggesting that it wasn't because most units were $400 or more while the target consumers primarily made minimum wage which amounted to $1.30US an hour?
I don't believe you've thought your position through or done any research. |
OK.. you win. thats the exact reason. I am totaly silly. Koreans are incredibly creative and hard working. they always carefully consider all possiblities and think up the most inspired ideas.
they are tought from a young age to think for themselves and to value individual ideas. old people respect the thoughts of the younger generation and in school they are dutifully tought the 3 Rs Read, Remember and Regurgitate because that is the best way to feed this creative explotions you see in korea every day. |
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Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Blue wrote: |
| OK.. you win. thats the exact reason. I am totaly silly. Koreans are incredibly creative and hard working. they always carefully consider all possiblities and think up the most inspired ideas. |
Actually, I was just asking you to stop making things up to support your opinion. First you claimed that Koreans cheat more than anyone else, and you were called on that as being a work of fiction. Then you said no one in Korean invented anything of value recently, I gave an example that you could not deny as impacted our society in a substantial fashion. You then proclaimed that it only sold well in Korea after it took off elsewhere, yet the reality was it did not sell well here at first simply because of the economic costs involved.
Don't cry simply because you've being called on your works of fiction. Didn't your mother tell you not to lie?
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| they are tought from a young age to think for themselves and to value individual ideas. old people respect the thoughts of the younger generation and in school they are dutifully tought the 3 Rs Read, Remember and Regurgitate because that is the best way to feed this creative explotions you see in korea every day. |
So just what have you contributed to society? So far it looks like the only thing you've been adding are creative works of fiction that you were attempting to use in support of your opinion. Don't ride the coattails of others, tell us what you've done that makes you so special and a proud example of why your education system is far superior.
Maybe after you have impressed us all with your magnificient works of art that have improved our collective culture, then we can sit down and discuss the limited contributions from Korea to the world stage and why that may be. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Location: England
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| Blue wrote: |
| you can see it in many aspects of the culture. for example in computer games koreans use cheats and hacks alot more than other cultures and they think its fine and if you beat the game with a hack its just as good as winning on the hardest difficulty.. in fact winning on the hardest difficulty is quite senceless to them. in the west using a computer hack or cheat code in a game is usually saved for after beating the game the real way or reaching an impassable point. or simply for the fun of it but with the understanding that your not really getting the full experiance. |
Why are you taking nonsense? I remember many of my friends (and me) during my younger days using every cheat available. We would buy the supernes mags and skim the back pages for cheats. |
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Blue

Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:05 am Post subject: |
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First you claimed that Koreans cheat more than anyone else, and you were called on that as being a work of fiction.
the point i was making here is that it is accepted. playing with cheats is just part of the game to many of the koreans i have played with. when i get upset or suggest they learn the game the right way they draw blank faces and basicly ask why? Of course after they have learned alot of tactics from some one else they are willing to play normaly. where as most people in the west would rather play normal first then use cheats as a novelty after they have already learned the game.. but thats just my experiance maybe you have forgoten too much.
Then you said no one in Korean invented anything of value recently, I gave an example that you could not deny as impacted our society in a substantial fashion.
I said nothing of the sort. posts are clearly marked by name. my post never mentioned the creations of koreans there are many korean inventions i respect a great deal.
You then proclaimed that it only sold well in Korea after it took off elsewhere, yet the reality was it did not sell well here at first simply because of the economic costs involved.
thats your oppinion.
Ja i used cheats in my younger days too. I remember playing games like Dragon warrior and using the book to get through the hard parts. (note: through the hard parts. not the character selection screen)
OK.. I will give it to you on the games i am only going by my experiance in games like diablo 2 and starcraft two or three years ago. i havent played much of either game since then and MMORGs dont have the same kind of cheats.
but what is the point of this. point out the exception to every thing in order to avoid the over all effect ofwhat I am saying. I have not seen you counter in any way the over all focus of my post or others like it. |
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matthewwoodford

Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Location: Location, location, location.
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Blue wrote: |
| I hope you dont missunderstand. I am not really feeling negative toward korans just focusing on something that i see as negative. I know of a car desighner at hyundai. cool guy. great ideas. things that make you say WOW. but he shows it to his boss and the boss says... "No.. No.. make it look more like a mustang, or Accord, or BMW" Koreans find an idea and stick with it. and they are very good at takeing that idea to its extream posibilities. but they are very bad at teaching, understanding, or accepting though which does not fit in their innitial idea of acceptable. |
Almost everything in this country is controlled by a few old men at the top who are somewhat rigid in their thinking. |
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