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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Ben Glickman wrote: |
| Your comments are ill informed- for starters- the school pays teachers, not Footprints. |
Then why do you have a School Payment page, where schools give you their credit card info and invoice numbers?
| Ben Glickman wrote: |
Secondly, all of our screened, and some of our client schools offer some of the best salaries in the industry. It makes more sense to work at a stable school that pays their teachers on time and provides a stable working environment than one that promises the moon and doesn't deliver. |
You are hit/miss, just like the rest, Ben. I've met enough folks that you guys have placed and lost track of, as much as the ones that worked out. I even had to help bail one of your teachers out of a really dicey situation in Ulsan, because the school was giving you guys too much grief and you elected to refuse doing business with the school anymore and the teacher was left twisting in the wind.
I respect that your motivation to come on here is to wax accountability, honesty, and integrity, for any of your prospective recruits to read, when they are doing fact checks on you, but, it would go a long way if you were to show some respect to them by being sincere and forthcoming, by saying things like 'we admit that we are not perfect and have made some mistakes in the past when qualifying schools and teachers, but rest assured that we are always in a progressive state of improvement, and seldom make the same mistake twice, blah-blah.' Or something to that effect.
History shows that honest recruiters get kicked out of the biz within the first year or so, and the ones with staying power, have done so, because they have allowed themselves to adapt. And that requires compromise. And people get burned from time to time, as a result of that. Good, progressive companies that are centered around customer service, will often draw reference to that they are human and make mistakes sometimes. On a board that is predominantly anti-recruiter and breeds distrust in them, I think that coming off a little more candid and empathetic will win more hearts, than trying to act like a shovel working against a tidal wave.
| Grotto wrote: |
Mr Glickman
After perusing your website I noticed a few errors in your information.
1. tax in Korea is 3-5% not 4-7%. |
This is a little misleading. The withholding tax rate is determined by one's income range. It's not a fixed rate for everybody. On the front page, Ben is peddling a gig in Ansan, at the moment, that pays between 2.6-3.2mil/month. The tax rate for that range falls between 4.3-6.4%. It really depends on what range of salaries he is quoting.
| Grotto wrote: |
4. Medical insurance is not a tax and must be supplied according to Korean law. |
Just to make things more clearer for other readers, as your wording could have two different interpretations, but you are NOT legally obliged under Korean law to have national health insurance. However, it is a legal requirement that your employer offers it to you.
Last edited by chronicpride on Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Why dost thou underpay me so? Seems people have been a bit rusty with their thees and thous lately... |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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I stand corrected....health insurance must be offered by Korean law.
True the tax rate does vary according to wage but with the usually wage of 1.8-2.3 the tax rate is 3-5% |
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Ben Glickman
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:21 pm Post subject: Thoughts on previous postings regarding Footprints |
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In response to some of the previous postings- Grotto- the tax rate depends on the salary- it is a sliding scale, not fixed. For most of the jobs we have the tax rate falls between 4-7% range- although it would be best to change our website to reflect the entire tax rate.
1.8 million is at the low end of the pay scale, but there are other factors to consider as well. Location, and number of hours per month, for instance. Some schools pay 1.8 for 90-95 hours per month, which may work out better for some teachers than 2.5 million won for 160 hours per month.
Grotto is correct in saying that the severance pay at the end of a contract is required by law, whether one calls it part of the salary or a bonus. I suppose we could change the wording on this- but as far as I am concerned it is a matter of semantics.
Regarding the job offer you refer to- for many people finding their own place after they arrive is a more attractive offer- some people appreciate the flexibility of being able to decide where in the city they want to live, and what kind of place they want to live in. Schools that provide a rent stipend instead of housing are often attractive to teachers that are going to Korea with spouses that won't be teaching.
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I notice there is no mention of the amount of the housing allowance!
The kind of apartments you show are not all that available in Seoul, that part of your website is somewhat misleading. |
If you don't know how much the housing allowance is, how can you judge what kind of apartment you can get?
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| Great working Saturdays! Now we know the job sucks! Oh wait suit and tie required! |
This particular job entails teaching adults in Seoul. With this job, split shifts and Saturday classes are required. Some teachers are willing to teach on Saturdays in order to teach in a professional environment, and to teach adults in Seoul- it is a trade off.
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| yeah right you arrive and the next day are thrust into classes. Do you actually believe this? |
The only basis for this is your own cynicism, and personal experiences. I don't see how you are in a position to make assumptions about this particular school.
In response to Babtangee- I not trying to toot our own horn, but simply respond to some of the mis-information posted.
For starters, we don't charge teachers any sort of fee for our services, nor do we attach their salaries in any way. In BC, Canada, it is illegal for an employment agency to charge individuals a fee for finding them a job, and we recommend any teacher against signing up for a service where they need to pay someone to find them a job.
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Then why do you have a School Payment page, where schools give you their credit card info and invoice numbers?
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The school pays us a recruitment fee for introducing teachers to them, and they also pay the teacher's salary. This is no secret- we are a for profit business, and we make a profit by charging schools for introducing teachers to them.
I do agree with you, chronic, that mistakes have been made. Certainly not every single school we have ever with has turned out to be ideal- if a situation arises, for example where a great client school is sold in the middle of the year to a new owner, than it can turn into a bad situation. In cases like that, we do our best to help teachers out of a bad situation. Similarly, we have represented teachers that initially seemed great that ended up ripping us off for plane tickets, leaving schools in the middle of the night with a stack of unpaid bills, thereby ruining our relationship with that school. It goes both ways. Sure, we have made mistakes, and unfortunately we will continue to do so- it is part of being in business, and being human. However, considering that we have been in the business for over 3 years, and have placed hundreds of teachers in Korea, and 90 percent of them complete their contracts, I think we are doing reasonably well. |
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babtangee
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Location: OMG! Charlie has me surrounded!
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Fair enough, Ben. You got my Bt of the Dt. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Ben Glickman wrote:
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| For most of the jobs we have the tax rate falls between 4-7% range |
I dont know about that Ben. I have taken a look at your website you are offering
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| This school offers single housing and a salary of 1.9-2.0 million won per month. |
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| 1,800,000 Won per month (MINIMUM) |
That is a far cry from the 4-7% tax bracket ! somewhat misleading.
I definately agree that the amount of hours a month is a big factor along with . Yes I wouldnt mind a job of 90-95 hours a month if that was the total time at the school. I would happily work for 1.8. In my experience I just havent seen any schools offering those hours.
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| Regarding the job offer you refer to- for many people finding their own place after they arrive is a more attractive offer- some people appreciate the flexibility of being able to decide where in the city they want to live, and what kind of place they want to live in |
Fair enough. There are two sides to any story.
I would like to see a typical apartment shown on your website instead of the larger apartment you do show. Sorry but I have lived in a one room apartment where you have to go outside to change your mind. Easy to clean granted but not a great place to entertain! Showing people both the good and the bad makes it easier to make informed decisions. If I was a new teacher and got a position with Footprints and arrived in Korea to a one room apartment I would feel like I was lied to by your website.
Split shifts and Saturdays....for the inconvenience and long hours the pay should reflect it. Unfortunately it usually does not! 1.8 for working 6 days a week is crap! Sorry but thats just the way I feel. Even if you only had to work 90 hours a week 1.8 for splits and Saturdays will always be crap. It basically means that you will be working early in the AM until late at night. Sure you have 8 hours off in between classes but that wears thin pretty damn quick.
Every single solitary hogwan teacher I have known or spoken to in 3 years of teaching over here tells the same story....welcome to Korea, here is your class, there are your books...go teach. You say cynicism I say experience. At most they get one day to 'observe' a class.
I have gone through 3 recruiters in 3 years and each one got their money and was never heard from again. One of these recruiters was supposedly a professional. Sorry if you feel unfairly treated by being lumped all together.
Regardless of circumstances I have successfully completed 2 contracts and am currently halfway through a third.
A 90% completion rate is fairly impressive though. Kudos. In my experience the turnover rate at the hogwans I worked at ran about 50% or higher. |
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RobotTeacher
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Location: I'm a Seoul Man
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:58 am Post subject: |
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*chuckles* I was going to come in here to bash Footprints, I find myself defending them.
I'm just finishing my first year out here. Thanks to them, I found a job. They took a while to find me a job, but, honestly? I think it was just hard to find me a spot. I don't blame them on that one.
School was nice, honest, and, best of all, stable. I have gotten paid on time, EVERY time, and find myself -almost- willing to sign on again. I won't due to external factors. (I can't deal with kinder anymore. I will kill the next little punk that tries to pick my arm hair.)
I think Footprints is a wonderful starter for anyone coming out. They helped me when I was having a problem or two, and they definately could have left me out to dry.
On the other hand, I'll see what they can offer me out here, but I'll likely be using either a closer recruiter (someone who lives here), or just doing it myself. Either way, I'll have someone closer at hand. Helps my state of mind. It -really- sucks to have to deal with the time shift to B.C. to get anything accomplished quickly. Also, SOME of their placements have been...less than enthused over the reality here. I knew what I was getting into, no complaints there.
Ben, I think you guys serve a needed spot in ESL placement services. You do a decent job in researching your hagwons, and I respect you for that. |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I suppose we could change the wording on this- but as far as I am concerned it is a matter of semantics |
It's not just semantics, it is misleading.
In Korean ������ is a very different meaning than 'bonus.'
"Bonus" implies you get it for a job well done. I know teachers whose boss said at the end of their contracts they will not get a large 'bonus' because their work wasn't up to scratch. So they accepted a few hundred K.
Any newbie will have to watch out if they don't know the law, their recruiter, should they be protecting the interests of their clients, should inform them correctly.
Furthermore, I never do business with people who do not know exact items within their business. So, seeing your ads, you would not have received business from me. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ohfamous wrote: |
Why people take 1.8 mil jobs:
1. They haven't done their research. They don't know better.
2. It still beats their current salary.
3. It definitely beats staying unemployed in the States or elsewhere.
I am not one of those people, but surely they exist and always will. Especially for the first reason. |
The best job I ever had was at a hagwon where I got paid 1.5 million, with no insurance, no housing, no airfare and no vacation in my contract (which was one short paragraph in Korean which I never bothered to read.) I never had a single disagreement with my boss. Whenever I came back from a 3 week vacation, my full salary was always waiting in the bank. I had two 40 minute classes a day. Started work at 4.50 and finished at 6.10. I guess I didn't know any better. |
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