Korean Job Discussion Forums

[seoulunitarian]

I wrestle with this issue because I am an atheist. Depsite the valid attempts by some of my fellow atheists, we cannot objectively define evil because we have no objective basis on which to define it. We say the problem with Christianity is the problem of evil (and it is), but I think it's also the problem of atheism. Some will talk about evolutionary instinct, which in some cases can be good (altruistic [another subjective word]attempts at survival of the species) or bad (attempts to destroy those who are different from us racially or ethnically). Aren't selfishness and self-preservation one and the same, just with different connotations? I think it's safe to say (at least we all live by this rule whether we say we do or not) that evil exists, it just cannot be objectively defined. Not a satisfying answer I know, but an honest one I think.

Peace,
Daniel

[Sleepy in Seoul]

I don't think that people are intrinsically evil. I believe that people, in general, are lazy (it's easier to be led around by the nose than it is to think for oneself). I think that we all have both good and evil impulses, but it sometimes is more work to restrain the evil impulses. Hence bad behaviour. Extreme simplification at work here

[manlyboy]

Nietzsche said that there is no such thing as evil phenomena. There exists only the interpretation of evil phenomena. "Evilness" exists only in the human mind, and cannot be ascribed as a behavioural characteristic. Therefore, mankind would be neither good nor evil.
This depressingly nihilistic theory doesn't do much for me anymore, though.

I recently came across this quote by Cicero: "Admit it! We do know when we are doing right and when we are doing wrong. We do feel that we should do right. In the course of a whole life the number of cases where we cannot be sure is invariably small. We also believe we would be happier if we always did what we knew was right, even if that meant we might be poorer or less successful".

It's a modest yet profound directive that I think most people in the world adhere to - "do what is right because the wrong can never be truly advantageous". It's an easy rule to mock, but it's strength is in it's simplicity.

Mankind is basically good. And even if he isn't, it's to our own health and benefit to believe that he is.

[Len8]

What about the psychopaths and the sociopaths. There are sure a hell of a lot of them. They don't choose to be the way they are. They just plain are. No conditioning. No distraught childhoods. It's the way they are ment to be.

I read the book about Bundy by the woman who worked with him in a crisis center. He was doing his serial killing while he was working with her. Came across as a nice guy. Not a trace of revulsion in her towards him because of some intuitive insight that we all think we have when we are in the prescence of evil.

My thinking is that there is a reason for evil in the form that it takes, but just what it is I don't know.

[Blind Willie]

Humans are just animals that can put names to the instincts they follow. That's it.

[sillywilly]

I agree that humans are just animals. But we're also pack animals and social creatures. I think that we're selfish to a certain extent but that most of us are willing to make sacrifices or selfish things in order to be perceived as powerful or useful or sexually desirable. That said, I think that we are capable of altruism for the benefit of the pack, whether thats a product of conditioning or nature... parents taking care of their young, anorexia, people going off to war and risking their lives.

There are not that many sociopaths in terms of sheer numbers. But they are interesting aren't they?

[panthermodern]

Nietzsche's "Will to Power"
and the "Master/Slave" morality

Slave / Master:

Resentful / Expresses anger directly
Reactionary (negative) / Creative (positive)
Other-directed / Self-directed
Other-worldly / This-worldly
Self-deceptive / Self-aware
Humble (meek) / Proud (not vain)
Altruistic / Egoistic
Prudent / Experimental
Democratic (self-indulgent) / Aristocratic (value hierarchy)
Confessional / Discrete (masked)
Morality of principles / Morality of persons
Weak-Willed / Strong-Willed
Good (weak) -vs- Evil (strong) / Good (strong) -vs- Bad (weak)



--From Harold Alderman, Nietzsche's Gift (1977

[itaewonguy]

[jajdude]

Perhaps we are a bundle of conflicting urges.

[sonofthedarkstranger]

Human nature is a wide, wide spectrum that encompasses just about every conceivable behavior and way to be. It's a wide, wide, beach with innumerable grains of sand.

Asking if man is good or evil is like asking if the earth is hot or cold.

Human nature is messy. Murky.

And again, what is evil??

Whatever it is, it clearly exists. But it is not all there is.

You who say man is evil seek to simplify.

[khyber]

[John Henry]

The answer is: Compassion.

[ersatzprofessor]

If men were basically evil, we wouldn't even have the concept of evil. It would just be 'normal'.

[khyber]

[ersatzprofessor]

Yeah, I guess. But denying that man is basically evil is not saying that man is basically good either.