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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| The Phillipino knife and stick fighting is very impressive to watch. Almost too fast to follow with the naked eye. |
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Bunnymonster
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:03 am Post subject: |
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Systemma and Kali both look impressive against unskilled opponents, which is fine. Then again they are no more efective than pulling a Glok and shooting them, embedding your ballpoint pen in their eye or putting their throat inside out with an elbow. Training 'for the street' is rubbish just make sure you are better armed than your opponents.........
Now for one on one fighting buwahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha Kali has learnt to fear the double leg (and has in the phillepenes started teahing wrestling), systemma hasn't yet, try relaxing and breathing to channel your energy to deflect my momentum when you're laid on you back eating elbows to the face................. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:07 am Post subject: |
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Look one post up....reasons people shouldnt post drunk 
bunnymonstor is the ultimate fighter he does not train but his system of attacking people from behind with large heavy objects works for him. 
Instead of belittling martial arts you obviously havent studied try to stop bragging about your own supposed fighting skills. 
Anyone who studies martial arts will be better prepared to handle an attack on the street than an average person who doesnt. Not everyone is cut out to be a fighting machine. |
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Bunnymonster
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Yup Grotto, you got me I've never trained in my life*.
On the point of self defense Traditional martial arts are a joke pure and simple,even if we ignore the fact that they are sportified forms of their orignal fighting selves they teach you fixed responses to what is going to be a brutal and unpredictable attack.
I'd suggest people look at sites like Don Rearic's or Demi Barbito's to find out what real fights are about. Frankly in all of my experience with traditional martial arts very rarely has anyone taught how to effectively deal wih aggression and commitment.
To end a fight with someone who really wishes to cause you harm you need to escalate things above the level that 90% of traditonal martial arts will show you (especially the japanese sport fighting arts). Frankly I have and will continue to carry weapons and will practice for their use on the street.
This said I agree that a TMA practicioner would be better equipped to deal with a street fight than the average Joe as they could do exactly what I do in a street fight scenario and run away very quickly (you see running laps as a warmup was useful after all).
Grotto if you really want to flame me feel free to take it to PM cos I'm well up for it..........
*(assuming we forget my 3 years of Karate (which I have just about detrained myself out of), 2 years of wrestling, 2 years of brazilian jiu jitsu (hopefully should pick up my blue when I go down to brazil next month) and 18 months of Muay Thai. I've also trained some TKD, Escrima, Fencing, White Crane Kung Fu, studied Krav Marga and Systemma texts and videos and helped to teach self defence classes...........) |
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jinglejangle
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Location: Far far far away.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:58 am Post subject: |
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I especially like the running away comment. Hahaha, that technique works well for me too, from time to time. And as for hitting people in the head with large heavy objects, I've had occasion to learn that a laptop will work, although, given the option, I'd recommend finding a less expensive club.
Mine didn't break, since I failed to connect, but, it did make the other guy stop and reconsider how easy I might go down. |
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John Henry
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
I want to see any and all of the bad boys who think they can fight...sign up for K1 or one of the others. Especially the korean MA's. Many instructors in korea...step up to the plate and let's see if you have what it takes!!
I'll take a good street fighter any day over any MA.
It all comes down to this...how much heart do you have to go the distance. It's not about style...it's about guts. You have to be able to take punches and kicks and still be able to come back. |
The reason I never discuss martial arts in public. It's this type of dumbass that causes someone to get hurt for no damn reason. "Have to be able to take punches and kicks" ??? Maybe if you watch Chuck Norris a lot.
I dare say a fight with a MA who really would not hold back would be over in a few seconds, one way or the other. |
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Blind Willie
Joined: 05 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Then again they are no more efective than pulling a Glok and shooting them |
| KRS-One wrote: |
Steady packin a gat as if something's gonna happen.
But it doesn't, they wind up shootin they cousin, they buggin |
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John Henry
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I appear everywhere and nowhere at once. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Bunnymonster wrote
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On the point of self defense Traditional martial arts are a joke pure and simple,even if we ignore the fact that they are sportified forms of their orignal fighting selves they teach you fixed responses to what is going to be a brutal and unpredictable attack.
I'd suggest people look at sites like Don Rearic's or Demi Barbito's to find out what real fights are about. Frankly in all of my experience with traditional martial arts very rarely has anyone taught how to effectively deal wih aggression and commitment.
To end a fight with someone who really wishes to cause you harm you need to escalate things above the level that 90% of traditonal martial arts will show you (especially the japanese sport fighting arts). Frankly I have and will continue to carry weapons and will practice for their use on the street. |
Unfortunately you are one of those people out there who has not yet come to understand the true meaning of martial arts. The arts are not to injure, maim or kill. They are not to go out and 'kick ass' they are learned for exercise, self confidence and self defence.
Anyone who studies any martial arts is almost always taught how to block first. Learning to deflect blows and protect themselves. Not to go out and 'tune someone up'! Facts are someone with a blackbelt in any martial art will be better able to protect themselves than your average Joe.
As anyone with a black belt or equivalent adeptness in a MA will tell you"it is not until you reach your black belt that you truly realise how much more you have to learn and how to begin putting the moves you have learned together"
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| Frankly I have and will continue to carry weapons and will practice for their use on the street |
It is exactly this type of attitude that ends up with people dead. A wise man once told me that "if you carry or use a weapon in a fight it can and will be taken away from you and used against you". If you pull a weapon in a fight you have taken it from a fight to a felony. If you pull a weapon you must be prepared to use it and you must also be ready to accept the consequences that come with it.
The best defence is to not fight! Run away if you can and aviod places and situations where your life may be in danger.
It is macho bullcrap like yours that ends up getting innocent people killed. |
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Bunnymonster
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Grotto wrote: |
| The arts are not to injure, maim or kill. |
Which is exactly why they are of no use in a street assault where a truly determined attacker will need to be maimed, killed or injured. While you are blocking his nice textbook punch his friend has just rushed you and stabbed you or hit you with a pint glass.
| Grotto wrote: |
| If you pull a weapon in a fight you have taken it from a fight to a felony |
The idea of a street 'fight' is a fallacy, this implies agreement and rules (frankly I'd employ my nike-jitsu during the rules meeting to escape). If my life is not in danger then I should be walking away or defusing it verbally, the second a real live scenario gets physical it is potentially a matter of life and death. When put in a situation like that I am a firm beliver of the mantra "better judged by twelve than carried by six"
| Grotto wrote: |
| The best defence is to not fight! Run away if you can and aviod places and situations where your life may be in danger. |
Agree 100%, how does your 3rd Dan in Judo or a 25 stripe pink and gold sash in TKD make you any better at this than anyone else.......
| John Henry wrote: |
| "Have to be able to take punches and kicks" ????? |
Anything can happen in a fight the chances are the first time you'll know you are being assaulted is when someone hits you, you need to be able to deal with you natural reaction to that and recover quickly so as to be able to remove yourself from the ituation as quickly and as risk free as possible. I agree the chances are a fight with most traditonal martial artists would be over very quickly as they would have no concept of being hit before as their training would lead them to believe they would always be able to counter it. This will lead to them being taken out of their training and failing when put under pressure. Its a lot easier to shoot 3 pointers in a nice calm gym with no-one around than it is when you're being smashed by a point guard. The only way to train for this is to put yourself in pressure situations in the gym and actually train for self preservation not glorified country dancing.
At the end of the day we all have to do what we think is right, every choice we make has consequences. Thankfully I've only ever once had to defend myself and I was damn glad I had some idea what I was going to do. The idea that a confrontation shouldn't be allowed to get physical is very dear to my heart, I do my fighting in the gym with people who have some skills, not in the street with bums. That said the only piece of advice my teacher ever gave me that could be considered even vaguely sage (apart from "jooo suck, why you waste my time with your boooolsheeet, why are you such a pussssyy") was "If someone's mother has to cry make sure it's his"................. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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damn thats funny
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| That said the only piece of advice my teacher ever gave me that could be considered even vaguely sage (apart from "jooo suck, why you waste my time with your boooolsheeet, why are you such a pussssyy") was "If someone's mother has to cry make sure it's his"................. |
All I am saying bunnymonster is dont poo poo on the MA's. They serve a purpose.
I remember one scrap I was in oh so many years ago: I was attacked and struck from behind, I turned around and saw a punch coming towards my face, BLOCK. Where did I learn the block? Judo. Next move was a kick. BLOCK. Oh Judo again. Flurry of punches, block block block block then I headbutted him in the face. Okay not a judo move as per say but effective non the less. He got back up and I slapped an arm lock on him and held him until the police arrived. All the while he was cursing and swearing and telling me how I was dead, how he was going to kick my ass, how I had better let him go or be sorry.
Now if one of his buddies had decided to jump in I would have given his arm, wrist, elbow a little twist and jerk and fubar'd his arm for life just to take him out of the fight.
MA's have their place even in a streetfight. |
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Demonicat
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Suwon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| I hate to interupt this fascinating discussion (one that has been going on for centuries), but I have to mention two things. 1) the OP is learning for a combat situation, not a self-defense situation, so that does change matters. 2) SOmeone mentioned Systema, anyone know of somewhere in Seoul. I looked it upo and this looks right up my alley (military/police style MA's) |
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