Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Derrek]

[Grotto]

[dbee]

Chances are that the boss is as worried about you using drugs and shagging Korean girls as he is about the state in which you keep the apartment. Anything which reflects badly on the school, the boss will consider to be his business.

I'd tell him in no uncertain terms that the apartment inspection is not going to happen. Even though many of the above suggestions would also suffice I'd imagine.

PS: Does anyone remember the story about the guy from NZ whose boss installed a hidden video camera in his apartment ... and then brought videos of him shagging his Korean gf into work to show the other males employees during lunchtime ???

PPS: I actually misread this, I thought you'd said ...

[JongnoGuru]

Why can't the employer use the teacher's severance/bonus as security & cleaning deposit? (of course, after signing all the paperwork to make this legally so) There would be ONLY ONE inspection -- at the end of the contract. And if there's a broken window, a roach problem that wasn't there before, or so much as a fingerprint on a light switch, DEDUCTED!!!!

[mindmetoo]

I'm sure schools have been burned before. I mean if they're hiring 22 year old men, who might have never done a lick of housework in their life, well, I'd not want to see what that place would look like after a year. Schools have a big investment in their property and probably feel like they want to make sure the property is being kept up.

However, your place is your place and you don't like the idea someone wants to invade your space. If my boss wanted to check out the place's condition once or twice during my 1 year contract, oh well, I'd let him/her.

[Badmojo]

In China, some of the "Leaders" came over to my apartment on campus and told me to clean it.

I told them I wasn't touching anything, but they were free to clean it if they wanted.

[Hollywoodaction]

[mishlert]

Change the locks and you may have a scenerio like this:

Owner: You change door lock?
You: Ah, yes. But how do you know? Did you try to open my door?
Owner: I. . . ummm. . . you. . . Oh yes. You change lock. Not good. Give me copy of keys.
You: You did not answer my question. Did you try to open my door?
Owner: Ummm. . . Checking to see if. . . ummm . . . house is clean. Give me copy.
You: No. If you want to check my house, make an appointment.
Owner: I am house owner. Give me copy.
You: I live there. I will give you a copy of the keys 1 month before I leave.

[hellofaniceguy]

[JongnoGuru]

Insisting that a landlord give you the key to his home in return for his having a key to your rental unit -- that would only be "share and share alike" if you were, in fact, the owner of your landlord's place.

Nobody has the right to demand a key to property they don't own -- the landlord only gives you a key to his rental property in exchange for rent. Conversely, an owner cannot be prevented access outright to any property he owns.

If you want to draw comparisons with the West, try this one.

The way it goes in any part of the West I'm familiar with, tenants may not change the locks as they please. They can only do so with the landlord's permission, and they must give the landlord a spare key to the new lock. Not doing so -- no permission, no spare key -- is one of the quickest ways I know to kick-start an eviction process. And it would likely be a speedy one because, simply put, this is one area where the law doesn't allow any horsing around.

You could stiff a landlord for the rent, and it would trigger, after some passage of time, a phased eviction process that could drag on for another month or longer. But changing the locks without notice and not giving the landlord a key? That gets the police involved from the get-go, and an eviction can be ordered by the end of the week. I known, because I've seen it.

There are also laws in the West that place limits (good reason, fair notice) on a landlord's access to a property he has rented out. Landlords can be sued for violating those limits and, if the tenant can convince a judge that they've been "harrassed", they can get some modest compensation. (And I mean modest.)

Even if laws in Korea are the same as those in the West, we all know enforcement is weak, police don't like to get involved, and even assuming you had the time, money and desire to take the matter to court, I can imagine you'd be advised to "make peace" with your Korean landlord -- which would include giving him a key to the new lock.

[Grotto]

Jongno Guru where in the West are you from?

Canadian law is pretty clear about a landlord entering a rental property without permission. If they enter your apartment without permission you can have them charged with breaking and entering.

[JongnoGuru]

I'm sure they can be thus charged, Grotto. Does that happen much in Canada? I was going to ask you about Canadian law on locks & access, but I just Googled and turned up this on British Columbia:

A landlord must not enter a rental unit in respect of which the tenant has a right to possession unless one of the following applies:
. an emergency exists and the entry is necessary to protect life or property,
. the tenant gives permission at the time of entry, or
. the tenant gives permission not more than 30 days before the time of entry,
. the landlord gives the tenant written notice not less than 24 hours, and not more than 30 days before the time of entry. <-- Now, unless I'm misreading this, this would seem to give landlords exactly what they want: Just follow the simple timeframe and you can enter, without having to state a particular reason, scientifically demonstrate "good cause", or even get the tenant's approval first. Would people be satisfied if this same law applied to their Korean landlord? Anyway...
. the landlord provides housekeeping or related services under the terms of a written tenancy agreement and the entry is for that purpose and in accordance with those terms,
. the tenant has abandoned the rental unit, or
. the landlord has an arbitrator��s order authorizing the entry.

And there's this bit:

If a landlord keeps coming into the tenant's home or onto the tenant's site without the tenant's permission, without written notice, and without the purpose of collecting rent or serving a document under the MHPTA, the tenant should:

Discuss the problem with the landlord first. If the practice continues, contact the Residential Tenancy Office. An Information Officer can contact the landlord and explain the rules of entry. If the practise continues the tenant may apply for arbitration. If the dispute goes to arbitration and the arbitrator believes that the landlord is likely to enter illegally again, the arbitrator may, in the case of a manufactured home site tenancy, suspend or set conditions on a landlord��s right to enter and, in the case of a residential tenancy, allow the tenant to change the locks and keep the only keys. (<-- That's quite a process before a tenant can legally change the locks.) The tenant will be required to give the landlord the keys upon moving out.

And we need to remember that in the West, the landlord will also be holding the tenant's cleaning & security deposit should the tenant get pissed and trash the home, which seems not to be the case here with Korean employer-provided housing.

Anyway, to continue...
Can a tenant change the locks?
Tenants must not change the locks without the landlord's permission or without an arbitrator's order. If an emergency occurs when the tenant is not at home and the door cannot be opened, the landlord or emergency personnel may remove the door. <-- And I imagine the tenant who held back the keys from the landlord would also be financially liable for any damage done to the door, the windows, the unit itself, etc. caused by emergency agencies during smashy-crashy.

http://www.rto.gov.bc.ca/documents/RTO-107.pdf (unlawful entry)
http://www.rto.gov.bc.ca/content/rightsResponsibilities/landlord.html (landlord's access)
http://www.rto.gov.bc.ca/documents/GL07.pdf (locks and access)

[sadsac]

I would have no problems with a boss wanting to inspect my apartment, with due and proper norice given. In Australia, all bond and security money is held by the Rental Tenancy Authority and any disputes are arbitrated by them. You fill out a reasonably comprehensive inspection report when you first rent a place and this is kept on record. Inspections are bi-annual in most cases and they give you a minimum of 7 days notice and a reminder 24 hours before the inspection. Inspect away, I don't have any problems with that. I do always change my locks when I first move into a new place here in Korea though. Not because of the boss, but you never know who the previous teachers gave a key too.

[JongnoGuru]

Ah, I forgot... we're not talking about the landlord's rights here. We're talking about the rights an employer has to enter a teacher's home. So the school/hagwon is the nominal tenant. Hmm...

Not sure how developed Korean law would be in such an area. But you know what? I think legal discussions are purely theoretical in situations like this. As I said, the police and the courts probably don't want to get involved or even hear about it, even assuming someone has the time and money to hire a lawyer. (Courts here like to see substantial financial damages, not emotional stress, lost income, etc.) And I'm sure in the end, you'll just be told to "make peace" with your employer or landlord.

You have to pick your battles here, like anywhere else. This one just doesn't seem worth a (costly) legal scuffle that will most likely lose you time, money, maybe your job, and you'll not get what you wanted. Better to move house or job, no? Or even better, arrange a mutually convenient time for them to come and inspect while you're present, no?

However, if I ever caught an employer physically inside my place without notice or invitation, there would be bloody hell to pay. Plain and simple. In fact, I almost wish one had done so back in the day, as I'm pretty good at turning on the theatrics in situations like that. I'd turn it around and endeavour to use it as best I could to get my way in salary negotiations, working conditions, improvements around the office, etc. Damn, why didn't they ever violate my privacy...

[mindmetoo]