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PolyChronic Time Girl
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: Korea Exited
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 Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Phoenix wrote: |
| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
Wrongo...I've worked at schools where I was plenty happy. These were Korean public high schools or other institutes which took education seriously.
If having the right attitude means acting like Barny the Dinosaur, then you're right....I don't have the right attitude.  |
I suppose it's a matter of having some self respect - if you think you're a "Monkey Joke" then it's not surprising you were treated like one. |
Oh, great, another Bad Hagwon Apologizer. This is not a rare complaint...there are plenty of great, qualified ESL teachers on this forum who were treated like a baby-sitters and yes, monkeys. It's not an issue of "self-respect" on my part....there are just some hagwons and kids that treat you that way....it's just the reality of the ESL market here.
You must be a wide-eyed newbie....you'll learn quickly. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Phoenix wrote: |
| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
Wrongo...I've worked at schools where I was plenty happy. These were Korean public high schools or other institutes which took education seriously.
If having the right attitude means acting like Barny the Dinosaur, then you're right....I don't have the right attitude. |
I suppose it's a matter of having some self respect - if you think you're a "Monkey Joke" then it's not surprising you were treated like one. |
Have you ever worked at a hogwan? Out of curiousity what would you do if you had a 15-year-old throwing everyone's papers and books around the classroom because she didn't get a candy? What would you do if you had three boys wrestling in the corner of a classroom during your lesson, you called the director, and after he left they started acting the same way? What's the best attitude to take, oh expert one?
Currently I'm in a phase of trying to ignore managment's ambiguous advice and just doing whatever works best, because there are a lot of kids I can teach a lot. Today one little shit who tried to bite another teacher (pm AdamH if you want more details) is moving into my class, and my attitude is that I'm going to make his life absolute living hell and humiliate him in front of everyone if he doesn't do exactly what I say from the start, because there are 9 other kids in that class capable of learning something. Say that's a poor attitude if you want but in a country where 90% of people have sh*t for brains when it comes to educating it's about the only way to get any learing done if you work at a hogwild. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
| Phoenix wrote: |
| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
Wrongo...I've worked at schools where I was plenty happy. These were Korean public high schools or other institutes which took education seriously.
If having the right attitude means acting like Barny the Dinosaur, then you're right....I don't have the right attitude. |
I suppose it's a matter of having some self respect - if you think you're a "Monkey Joke" then it's not surprising you were treated like one. |
Oh, great, another Bad Hagwon Apologizer. This is not a rare complaint...there are plenty of great, qualified ESL teachers on this forum who were treated like a baby-sitters and yes, monkeys. It's not an issue of "self-respect" on my part....there are just some hagwons and kids that treat you that way....it's just the reality of the ESL market here.
You must be a wide-eyed newbie....you'll learn quickly. |
Quite frankly it sounds like there are a few people posting here who have their head as far up their ass as your average hogwan director. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
| ...But I prefer to be an actual educating professional, and I only seek out schools that want a teacher, not a circus clown. |
There was a group of teachers I'd run into when I was out clubbing semi-regularly a few years back. One of them -- a real joker, big party animal -- stopped showing up, and I asked the others what became of him. "Oh him -- he's a clown. He works late. Always busy these days." I'd heard this same thing several times ... "he's a clown", "he's an English clown".
I once spotted him crossing an intersection. "Hey, I saw 'Harry' the other day, walking with his briefcase. Guess he was going to work."
"Yeah, he carries his wig and nose and giant shoes in that briefcase."
"Huh? What do you mean?"
"Hey, we told you we was working as an English clown."
"Damn...  I thought you were speaking figuratively!" 
It's been years since I last saw or heard of him. He was crazy, though. Big drinker, funny as anything. Zany. They say he's still a big drinker, but only at home. Alone. And he doesn't go out. I've heard there are others plying the clown circuit (circus?) in Korea. Pays well, apparently.
Speaking as a Westerner, I can't say I was best pleased to hear of this. Were I also a teacher, I think I'd be offended. But should I be? Would any of you be? They said it pays well, but damn... Talk about feeding a stereotype. A white Steppin' Fetchit. |
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PolyChronic Time Girl
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: Korea Exited
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
| Phoenix wrote: |
| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
Wrongo...I've worked at schools where I was plenty happy. These were Korean public high schools or other institutes which took education seriously.
If having the right attitude means acting like Barny the Dinosaur, then you're right....I don't have the right attitude. |
I suppose it's a matter of having some self respect - if you think you're a "Monkey Joke" then it's not surprising you were treated like one. |
Oh, great, another Bad Hagwon Apologizer. This is not a rare complaint...there are plenty of great, qualified ESL teachers on this forum who were treated like a baby-sitters and yes, monkeys. It's not an issue of "self-respect" on my part....there are just some hagwons and kids that treat you that way....it's just the reality of the ESL market here.
You must be a wide-eyed newbie....you'll learn quickly. |
Quite frankly it sounds like there are a few people posting here who have their head as far up their ass as your average hogwan director. |
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a pompous a**. No offense to people who are new...wrong choice of word there. It's just clear, like you said, Yu_Bum_Suk, that Phoenix has never been in the "trenches" of a real hagwon and is dishing out all this santimonious bull without realizing that good teachers do have bad experiences sometimes. |
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agraham
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Daegu, Korea
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Either a lot of people are missing something fundamental or I am:
| ptg wrote: |
Many hagwon parents are stupid...that's why plenty of hagwon businesses capitilize on their stupidity. Many hagwon directors promise that all it takes for their kid to be fluent is to throw them in a room with Whitie and their kid wil be fluent in two days...no study required, just fun....it's as if Whitie has magical English powers  |
At my hagwon the kids work like slaves. They sit in listening classes transcribing conversations. They read stories, are given vocab papers from the stories that they have to translate and memorize at home. They are tested on that vocab and if they fail they have to stay at school until they have it down. They have to read into a tape recorder and hand in the tapes every week. They have grammar classes too.
My class is the one class where they can sit back a bit and actually gab in the language they've been learning all week. What else am I supposed to do? Drill them on grammar? They already have a grammar class. Drill them on idioms? They already have to memorize sixty words and idioms a week for their listening and reading classes.
As it stands I have to make up a sheet with two or three short dialogs that the kids are supposed to memorize for homework. But my unwritten rule is that I'm not a hardass about the homework as long I get some decent effort to speak English in my classes.
| ptg wrote: |
Wrongo...I've worked at schools where I was plenty happy. These were Korean public high schools or other institutes which took education seriously.
If having the right attitude means acting like Barny the Dinosaur, then you're right....I don't have the right attitude. |
I'm not a clown. I don't dance and sing, but neither do I feel the need to "take education seriously", by which you mean treat children's conversation class like and all-encompassing university English class.
| yu_bum_suk wrote: |
| ... Say that's a poor attitude if you want but in a country where 90% of people have sh*t for brains when it comes to educating it's about the only way to get any learing done if you work at a hogwild. |
That's excactly what I'm talking about. This comment is totally pompous. |
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PolyChronic Time Girl
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: Korea Exited
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| agraham wrote: |
Either a lot of people are missing something fundamental or I am:
| ptg wrote: |
| Many hagwon parents are stupid...that's why plenty of hagwon businesses capitilize on their stupidity. Many hagwon directors promise that all it takes for their kid to be fluent is to throw them in a room with Whitie and their kid wil be fluent in two days...no study required, just fun....it's as if Whitie has magical English powers |
At my hagwon the kids work like slaves. They sit in listening classes transcribing conversations. They read stories, are given vocab papers from the stories that they have to translate and memorize at home. They are tested on that vocab and if they fail they have to stay at school until they have it down. They have to read into a tape recorder and hand in the tapes every week. They have grammar classes too.
My class is the one class where they can sit back a bit and actually gab in the language they've been learning all week. What else am I supposed to do? Drill them on grammar? They already have a grammar class. Drill them on idioms? They already have to memorize sixty words and idioms a week for their listening and reading classes.
As it stands I have to make up a sheet with two or three short dialogs that the kids are supposed to memorize for homework. But my unwritten rule is that I'm not a hardass about the homework as long I get some decent effort to speak English in my classes.
| ptg wrote: |
Wrongo...I've worked at schools where I was plenty happy. These were Korean public high schools or other institutes which took education seriously.
If having the right attitude means acting like Barny the Dinosaur, then you're right....I don't have the right attitude. |
I'm not a clown. I don't dance and sing, but neither do I feel the need to "take education seriously", by which you mean treat children's conversation class like and all-encompassing university English class.
| yu_bum_suk wrote: |
| ... Say that's a poor attitude if you want but in a country where 90% of people have sh*t for brains when it comes to educating it's about the only way to get any learing done if you work at a hogwild. |
That's excactly what I'm talking about. This comment is totally pompous. |
I'm confused because in your original post, you describe yourself as a "daycare monitor"...those were your words. When I think of a "daycare monitor" I don't think of an easy-going English teacher...I summon up images of Barney.
There's nothing wrong with a relaxed English conversation class...but asking us teachers who take this profession seriously to call ourselves "daycare monitors" is a little insulting. |
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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Phoenix
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
| You must be a wide-eyed newbie....you'll learn quickly. |
First off,
"Joined: 04 Jun 2003"
The reason it would appear to be a common complaint is because people don't often seek out Dave's ESL to post good happy stories about how well life is at their hagwon, and life's pretty darn sweet at my current one after a couple of previous bad experiences, thanks for asking.
Drop the persecution complex, gain a little old self respect (I'm sure you're worth more than the average primate) and you'll find life a lot easier in Korea, honey.
That advice is free  |
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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
| ...But I prefer to be an actual educating professional, and I only seek out schools that want a teacher, not a circus clown. |
There was a group of teachers I'd run into when I was out clubbing semi-regularly a few years back. One of them -- a real joker, big party animal -- stopped showing up, and I asked the others what became of him. "Oh him -- he's a clown. He works late. Always busy these days." I'd heard this same thing several times ... "he's a clown", "he's an English clown".
I once spotted him crossing an intersection. "Hey, I saw 'Harry' the other day, walking with his briefcase. Guess he was going to work."
"Yeah, he carries his wig and nose and giant shoes in that briefcase."
"Huh? What do you mean?"
"Hey, we told you we was working as an English clown."
"Damn... I thought you were speaking figuratively!"
It's been years since I last saw or heard of him. He was crazy, though. Big drinker, funny as anything. Zany. They say he's still a big drinker, but only at home. Alone. And he doesn't go out. I've heard there are others plying the clown circuit (circus?) in Korea. Pays well, apparently.
Speaking as a Westerner, I can't say I was best pleased to hear of this. Were I also a teacher, I think I'd be offended. But should I be? Would any of you be? They said it pays well, but damn... Talk about feeding a stereotype. A white Steppin' Fetchit. |
Immigration wrongly denied my E-2 Visa. What kind of a Visa does a clown need? I need a legal job and if that's what it takes then call me what you want! |
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agraham
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Daegu, Korea
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
I'm confused because in your original post, you describe yourself as a "daycare monitor"...those were your words. When I think of a "daycare monitor" I don't think of an easy-going English teacher...I summon up images of Barney.
There's nothing wrong with a relaxed English conversation class...but asking us teachers who take this profession seriously to call ourselves "daycare monitors" is a little insulting. |
Basicaly, I'm referring to myself with the terminology that Hanson would use.
Perhaps it means I end up overstating the case a bit. Partly because it's my way of challenging those who I see as pretentious gasbags. Also partly for comedic effect. Obviously some people are completely irony challenged though. Those same people don't appreciate a delicious cheese ramen with beef. Yum yum. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| buymybook wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
| ...But I prefer to be an actual educating professional, and I only seek out schools that want a teacher, not a circus clown. |
..."Yeah, he carries his wig and nose and giant shoes in that briefcase."
"Huh? What do you mean?"
"Hey, we told you we was working as an English clown."
"Damn... I thought you were speaking figuratively!"
...I've heard there are others plying the clown circuit (circus?) in Korea. Pays well, apparently...
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Immigration wrongly denied my E-2 Visa. What kind of a Visa does a clown need? I need a legal job and if that's what it takes then call me what you want! |
The Clown Visa? That would be the elusive and highly sought-after C-2 visa. I'm personally on the M-2 (Monkey Business) visa, which has its perks, though some drawbacks as well. Like clients thinking they can pay me in peanuts.
Seriously, I wasn't really sure whether to believe it or not until I saw a TV show a year or so later featuring "a day in the life" of several top hagwon teachers. There was a math teacher, an English teacher, some others. (btw, they were all Korean) They were doing well enough that they each had their own car & chauffeur to take them all over the city. While their driver drove, they would eat breakfast or lunch, prepare for their next class or school, or in the case of the (male) English teacher, put on a different blonde/red/pink wig, insert false bre@sts, don cheerleader's outfit, etc. "The students at the next hagwon really love 'Chelly Teacher'! " They even showed that dude (skinny Korean guy who's English I could barely understand) in Dongdaemoon Market shopping for his makeup, wigs and 'accessory', while the ajuma vendors cackled in the background.
The angle/agenda of the show was basically, "See how early they have to wake up? See how they miserable they are, having to eat doshirak in their car because they're so busy? See how late they finish work each day? So let's all not begrudge them that W20 mil./month they're paid." |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 2:33 am Post subject: |
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Ok, first off:
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I've got a problem with robbing kids of their childhood.
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A noble sentiment indeed but what????
As for the OP he makes a valid point but I get off the bus when it comes to hakwons (all of them or most of them) hiring baby sitters or monitors. That is not the case at any of the schools I worked at, even at my old ECC. It might be true with Kindergarten classes but that would be the same back home.
There are bad/corrupt schools that is for sure. The system could be better and but it has improved since I arrived in 1997. The key is not to lump all the schools in one bag and stamp it as crap.
What you get out of the job you have depends a lot on one person: you.
You see your job a joke and you will be a joke (or clown, or whatever). Teaching back home (I was a teacher for 2 years there before coming here) has its own challenges, many of which are the same here. Teachign requires passion and a bit of humility. You also need to realize that teachers often operate in a system that is less then favorable to education and often have to go the extra mile to get results.
Too many of us come here not even wanting to be teachers and assume Korea will be a working-holiday or a cake walk. This sets you up for the big shock.
The basic element here is: do you want to teach with all that this implies? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
| Phoenix wrote: |
| PolyChronic Time Girl wrote: |
Wrongo...I've worked at schools where I was plenty happy. These were Korean public high schools or other institutes which took education seriously.
If having the right attitude means acting like Barny the Dinosaur, then you're right....I don't have the right attitude. |
I suppose it's a matter of having some self respect - if you think you're a "Monkey Joke" then it's not surprising you were treated like one. |
Oh, great, another Bad Hagwon Apologizer. This is not a rare complaint...there are plenty of great, qualified ESL teachers on this forum who were treated like a baby-sitters and yes, monkeys. It's not an issue of "self-respect" on my part....there are just some hagwons and kids that treat you that way....it's just the reality of the ESL market here.
You must be a wide-eyed newbie....you'll learn quickly. |
Quite frankly it sounds like there are a few people posting here who have their head as far up their ass as your average hogwan director. |
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a pompous a**. No offense to people who are new...wrong choice of word there. It's just clear, like you said, Yu_Bum_Suk, that Phoenix has never been in the "trenches" of a real hagwon and is dishing out all this santimonious bull without realizing that good teachers do have bad experiences sometimes. |
The head up the ass remark wasn't directed towards you by any means. Sorry to be so blunt myself, but I really can't believe what some people assume about hogwans when they generalise. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| agraham wrote: |
Either a lot of people are missing something fundamental or I am:
| ptg wrote: |
| Many hagwon parents are stupid...that's why plenty of hagwon businesses capitilize on their stupidity. Many hagwon directors promise that all it takes for their kid to be fluent is to throw them in a room with Whitie and their kid wil be fluent in two days...no study required, just fun....it's as if Whitie has magical English powers |
At my hagwon the kids work like slaves. They sit in listening classes transcribing conversations. They read stories, are given vocab papers from the stories that they have to translate and memorize at home. They are tested on that vocab and if they fail they have to stay at school until they have it down. They have to read into a tape recorder and hand in the tapes every week. They have grammar classes too.
My class is the one class where they can sit back a bit and actually gab in the language they've been learning all week. What else am I supposed to do? Drill them on grammar? They already have a grammar class. Drill them on idioms? They already have to memorize sixty words and idioms a week for their listening and reading classes.
As it stands I have to make up a sheet with two or three short dialogs that the kids are supposed to memorize for homework. But my unwritten rule is that I'm not a hardass about the homework as long I get some decent effort to speak English in my classes.
| ptg wrote: |
Wrongo...I've worked at schools where I was plenty happy. These were Korean public high schools or other institutes which took education seriously.
If having the right attitude means acting like Barny the Dinosaur, then you're right....I don't have the right attitude. |
I'm not a clown. I don't dance and sing, but neither do I feel the need to "take education seriously", by which you mean treat children's conversation class like and all-encompassing university English class.
| yu_bum_suk wrote: |
| ... Say that's a poor attitude if you want but in a country where 90% of people have sh*t for brains when it comes to educating it's about the only way to get any learing done if you work at a hogwild. |
That's excactly what I'm talking about. This comment is totally pompous. |
What, I can make most of the kids in most of my classes learn by doing things my way and that's pompous? Should I be humble and let them play on their cell phones all lesson long and give the parents BS report cards? It sounds like you've found a very good hogwan. Mine only works to some extent when I take the initiative myself. When I think that the kids aren't really into playing with the bingo cards I spend 20 minutes making, but then look into the next classroom and they're playing dodgeball, I think I'm making some strides. If being so pompous helps kids learn more English, I'll try to be the most pompous ass I can in your view of things. |
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