Korean Job Discussion Forums

[JongnoGuru]

Grotto, is there a sticky somewhere on employment contracts that prospective teachers can refer to? Maybe with some samples of "good", "fair", "sneaky", "bad", "laughable" model contracts? I think that would be a very valuable resource. Posters could refer to that, see where their contract differs, spot potential deal-breakers, phrasing to look out for, items to negotiate, etc.

[Hater Depot]

Notice also that, in this contract, the employer has sole discretion over your vacation days, supposeduly they will provide you with a schedule in advance. Not a good thing if you like being able to make plans--Koreans are notoriously bad long-term planners.

They also have "sole discretion" whether you get days off even if there is a death in your family! As a person likely to lose my grandfather to cancer this year, I can tell you this is not a clause you want in your contract.

And personally I would never accept 17,000 won as an overtime rate. 25,000 seems fair to me.

[Grotto]

EFL law has some good advice on contracts. What is a fair contract and illegal practices.

Right now GEPIK wants to withhold 900,000 won as a deposit against possible illegal activities. They were told its illegal so they changed it to a housing deposit, and were told thats illegal too(by the ministry of labour) but they are still trying to force teachers to pay it

The ministry of labour has told several teachers that if the school or GEPIK takes any money off their checks and withholds it to contact them and they will fix it. Stupidity at its finest!

[pegpig]

Grotto's analysis is leaning towards a perfect contract which is something you will rarely get, imho. Try, by all means, but in the end realize you won't get it all.

Contrary to Gopher's advice, definitely come to Korea. It sure beats sitting in your basement wilting. Then in a few years you're wondering, what if, what if....

Experiencing a new country is worth the risk of a bad experience. My first year wasn't great by any means. I worked a double split shift, woke up at 5:30, and finished at 8:30. I averaged 130 hours a month, with 160 in January. At the time I thought it was hell, but I look back on it all rather fondly.

I'm not someone who particularly likes Korea. I definitely don't love it. But, it's an experience. Just don't plan on staying too long or you may find yourself in the ESL industry for life, whether you like it or not.

[Grotto]

I wouldnt say its leaning towards a perfect contract by any means. The fact is the contract is the only thing you have protecting you in this country. Some people say the most important thing is your relationship with your boss...that is true up to a point! The point being where they decide to screw you over due to a poorly worded contract.

If you want relative safety coming over to Korea go with a public school job, or a chain like ECC, Pagoda, YBM, etc. They dont pay the best but they are for the most part fairly reliable.

[Real Reality]

[pegpig]

I tend to look at contracts a little differently. If they're a shady school the greatest contract in the world isn't gonna stop them from trying to shaft you. My last contract was concise to the tune of 1 page. Of course, I'm here so I can actually check the school out personally (which is much more important). Also, I have an F2, and if I don't like it - goodbye. Those are 2 reasons why our situations are perhaps a little different I guess.

[Gopher]

[JongnoGuru]

[pegpig]

[bosintang]

Gopher, I think you're a bit too harsh. You got sucked into a bad experience, and yes, many others, perhaps even most their first year or two do as well. However people get by, and there are still some things that may make a trip through the minefields in Korea worth it:

For instance:

1) If you're worried about startup money -- As far as I know, only in Korea airfare is provided, and you don't need lots of startup money.

2) If you have no teaching experience - Most countries paying living wages want experience and/or credentials.

3) You can get a job quickly - there's little beauracracy in the way of starting work.

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Instead of saying avoid Korea altogether, I'll give some more moderate advice:


1) Don't come to Korea if you're looking for a dream career or to get rich, and don't expect things to go smoothly. Expect the unexpected and take your dose of irony pills.

2) Have a backup plan, and that means bring enough money so that you're not stuck here.

3) Research your contract, but rather than going through Grotto's unrealistic nitpicking point-by-point analysis to get that perfect contract that not even he signed, stick to the rather obvious signs of a bad contract. EFL-law's list of common deceptions is a good place to start. More important than the contract itself, speak to a former teacher from the school. Only go with a start-up school, if you're very adventurous (some may say insane).

4) Trust your instincts. If something doesn't seem right, it probably isn't. Be flexible and willing to adapt, but don't let people walk over you. Don't let recruiters or employers use a language barrier as an excuse to be vague or ignorant.

5) Everything can be summed up in understand the risk you are taking. It's really easy to get a job in Korea, but with it comes a large risk that the job may not work out. All I can tell someone who's never been here is that they have no idea just how bad, a bad situation can really be.

[bosintang]

Hi Rachel,

I looked over your contract. If the other teacher says the school is a good place to work, then I don't see anything glaringly wrong with this contract. Just a few changes I'd make:

[Grotto]

FYI I signed a contract for 2.4, for working 22 forty minute classes a week. 14 days vacation + national holidays + various school holidays thrown in. I have a large 2 bedroom apartment with a full size fridge, an oven(thats right an actual oven), couch, etc. My bedroom is bigger than most ESL apartments.

I guess this is what "nitpicking" gets you. By all means feel free to follow bosintangs poor advice and settle for a poorly worded illegal contract!

[Captain Corea]

Also, the "other teacher" is something i've sen used a lot more of late.

I know of a school where the last 3 teachers have left unhappy BUT the teacher how new recruits are reffered to is the new one (less than 4 months).

Ask for a few teachers contact numbers, past and present.

[bosintang]