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rumpolestitskin
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| rumpolestitskin wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| Bah, throw the book at them. It's hard enough as it is to get students motivated, we really don't need uneducated morons passing off as teachers. It only serves to provide the least gifted students with a pretext to begin goofing off in class. |
Think it might be a little too early to peg them as uneducated morons. After all the article did say that they graduated high school, so its not as if they are totally uneducated and did nothing during education.
who is to say that they simply couldn't afford to go to college? The hardest thing for me was paying the tutition.
I seem to remember most of my college education being an attendance thing rather than serious learning. Either im a genius or college isn't all its cracked up to be.
And I'm fairly sure that there are people out there with no college education that are better teachers than me; a person with 2 degree's.
Throwing the book at them seems a little harsh when you consider that this is a country with something like 26 times more purgery, fraud and libel than Japan (According to an article in the chosun times). Lets not also forget that if my memory serves me correct millions of people have just been pardoned. Think simply deporting them would be a better option. |
Since when does having a highschool diploma make one 'educated' in the US--or in any other developped nation, for that matter? Unless the standards have completely deteriorated, I'd say you need at least a 2 year college diploma to be labeled as so. Yes, I question their intelligence for the simple reason that they chose to remain in Korea, knowing all too well the government had finally begun looking for scam artists of their kind. It was so dumb of them to stay, this story could be filed under 'stupid criminals'.
Deportation is hardly a deterrent; however, the threat of spending 6 months to a year in Korean jail can certainly be so. Send them to jail where they can learn the joys of eating kimchi, rice, and beans 3 meals a day, 7 days a week. I also hear Korean jails are quite chilly in the winter. |
Never once did I say that they were educated. I simply said that they weren't totally uneducated.
Wow a two-year diploma would to your mind make a person educated.
Hmmm, I know people who have more university qualifications than me, but I wouldn't say that they were well educated. I'd be fairly certain that we all know some "educated" people that are really just space cadets. Not to mention some people who didn't go to college, or left because of financial or family reasons that we could label as geniuses.
I don't think college education is what it used to be. I think far too many people graduate simply because college's have lowered the standard. I'd question whether most degrees are any more than an expensive piece of paper only good for decorating the wall.
I hear that you can get a degree in Horror Movies now days. It sounds to me that if the Korean's want to keep poor English teachers out of Korea they should they should think of a different Visa policy, there are plenty of good teachers out there without degrees, and plenty of bad ones with them.
I fail to see how you can instantly label these two as uneducated. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| rumpolestitskin wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| rumpolestitskin wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| Bah, throw the book at them. It's hard enough as it is to get students motivated, we really don't need uneducated morons passing off as teachers. It only serves to provide the least gifted students with a pretext to begin goofing off in class. |
Think it might be a little too early to peg them as uneducated morons. After all the article did say that they graduated high school, so its not as if they are totally uneducated and did nothing during education.
who is to say that they simply couldn't afford to go to college? The hardest thing for me was paying the tutition.
I seem to remember most of my college education being an attendance thing rather than serious learning. Either im a genius or college isn't all its cracked up to be.
And I'm fairly sure that there are people out there with no college education that are better teachers than me; a person with 2 degree's.
Throwing the book at them seems a little harsh when you consider that this is a country with something like 26 times more purgery, fraud and libel than Japan (According to an article in the chosun times). Lets not also forget that if my memory serves me correct millions of people have just been pardoned. Think simply deporting them would be a better option. |
Since when does having a highschool diploma make one 'educated' in the US--or in any other developped nation, for that matter? Unless the standards have completely deteriorated, I'd say you need at least a 2 year college diploma to be labeled as so. Yes, I question their intelligence for the simple reason that they chose to remain in Korea, knowing all too well the government had finally begun looking for scam artists of their kind. It was so dumb of them to stay, this story could be filed under 'stupid criminals'.
Deportation is hardly a deterrent; however, the threat of spending 6 months to a year in Korean jail can certainly be so. Send them to jail where they can learn the joys of eating kimchi, rice, and beans 3 meals a day, 7 days a week. I also hear Korean jails are quite chilly in the winter. |
Never once did I say that they were educated. I simply said that they weren't totally uneducated.
Wow a two-year diploma would to your mind make a person educated.
Hmmm, I know people who have more university qualifications than me, but I wouldn't say that they were well educated. I'd be fairly certain that we all know some "educated" people that are really just space cadets. Not to mention some people who didn't go to college, or left because of financial or family reasons that we could label as geniuses.
I don't think college education is what it used to be. I think far too many people graduate simply because college's have lowered the standard. I'd question whether most degrees are any more than an expensive piece of paper only good for decorating the wall.
I hear that you can get a degree in Horror Movies now days. It sounds to me that if the Korean's want to keep poor English teachers out of Korea they should they should think of a different Visa policy, there are plenty of good teachers out there without degrees, and plenty of bad ones with them.
I fail to see how you can instantly label these two as uneducated. |
Hmm... So are saying you only have a high school diploma?
Yes, I'd say someone with a college diploma is educated...I wouldn't want them to perform surgery on me, but they are educated. I believe the correct term to describe them is 'college educated'. But, what do I know? I'm just a space cadet with a worthless grad school diploma. Had I passed on going to university, like the two geniuses who got caught with their pants down, I might have been smarter. |
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rumpolestitskin
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
Hmm... So are saying you only have a high school diploma? |
| rumpolestitskin wrote: |
And I'm fairly sure that there are people out there with no college education that are better teachers than me; a person with 2 degree's. |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
I believe the correct term to describe them is 'college educated'. But, what do I know? I'm just a space cadet with a worthless grad school diploma. |
Well at least that��s something thing we both agree on.
One of the main reasons to go to college is to learn and demonstrate Analytical skill (the art of looking at what somebody wrote and drawing the relevant information and conclusions form it). Yet you seem to be oblivious to me having two degree's. Like I said previously - I don't think college education is what it used to be. I think far too many people graduate simply because college's have lowered the standard. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| rumpolestitskin wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
Hmm... So are saying you only have a high school diploma? |
| rumpolestitskin wrote: |
And I'm fairly sure that there are people out there with no college education that are better teachers than me; a person with 2 degree's. |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
I believe the correct term to describe them is 'college educated'. But, what do I know? I'm just a space cadet with a worthless grad school diploma. |
Well at least that��s something thing we both agree on.
One of the main reasons to go to college is to learn and demonstrate Analytical skill (the art of looking at what somebody wrote and drawing the relevant information and conclusions form it). Yet you seem to be oblivious to me having two degree's. Like I said previously - I don't think college education is what it used to be. I think far too many people graduate simply because college's have lowered the standard. |
Well, had you possessed any analytical skills, you would have known the first sentence was meant as a joke. So, yes, I agree. There are people with degrees who lack intelligence...even some with two. You couldn't have made your point any clearer. |
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trevorcollins
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
| [Sure, I know more Canadians doing this but....I'm Canadian. It stands to reason I would know more Canadians. If I were American, I'd probably spend more time with Americans. |
Nationalism at it's finest.
Why does it stand to reason that someone would spend the majority of their time with people from their own country when they're living in a foreign country...?
To talk about ice hockey and beavers...?
I hate hanging out with my foreign countrymen.
If I wanted to do that I would have stayed home. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Nationalism? 25,000 of you Americans live on guarded compounds throughout Korea, where you buy US goods with US dollars, watch US tv and drive your US cars. Now that's nationalism.
It's not my fault you don't like hockey. Hockey rules.
And I hear you like Canadian beaver just fine. I do, too.
I have friends from the US, Canada, England, Ireland, Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, France, the Philippines, Germany and of course, South Korea.
You hate hanging with your fellow countrymen? Then why do you spend time posting on a board with them? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I think most jobs here would require nothing more than a secondary school education and the right *aptitude* (and a certain skill in dealing with Korean BS). On the other hand, I could see people with education degrees coming here and then leaving in disgust or not getting along with inept management and parting ways. As I've said before, a day care worker who never finished school but is naturally good at handling children would make a better instructor at most kiddie hogwans than someone with several degrees and loads of EFL theory. |
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rumpolestitskin
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| rumpolestitskin wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
Hmm... So are saying you only have a high school diploma? |
| rumpolestitskin wrote: |
And I'm fairly sure that there are people out there with no college education that are better teachers than me; a person with 2 degree's. |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
I believe the correct term to describe them is 'college educated'. But, what do I know? I'm just a space cadet with a worthless grad school diploma. |
Well at least that��s something thing we both agree on.
One of the main reasons to go to college is to learn and demonstrate Analytical skill (the art of looking at what somebody wrote and drawing the relevant information and conclusions form it). Yet you seem to be oblivious to me having two degree's. Like I said previously - I don't think college education is what it used to be. I think far too many people graduate simply because college's have lowered the standard. |
Well, had you possessed any analytical skills, you would have known the first sentence was meant as a joke. So, yes, I agree. There are people with degrees who lack intelligence...even some with two. You couldn't have made your point any clearer. |
Thats not excatly how what you wrote read. Maybe you should start tagging your jokes <joke>Insert joke here</joke> |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I suspect the degree thing is less about actual qualifications, and more about how people that don't graduate from university are stigmatized in Korean culture |
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rumpolestitskin
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| I suspect the degree thing is less about actual qualifications, and more about how people that don't graduate from university are stigmatized in Korean culture |
I can see a korean possibly thinking that. Sounds like a very probable reason. |
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inkoreaforgood
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Location: Inchon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| I suspect the degree thing is less about actual qualifications, and more about how people that don't graduate from university are stigmatized in Korean culture |
What oft was said, but ne'er so well expressed!
To be honest, I never actually thought of it that way. Knew it was true, but never formed the actual thought. Thanks!! |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:53 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps thats true peppermint.
However, what do you propose as beter solution?
There has to be some minimal requirement to be a teacher here. It is already pretty low. Now, when they enforce their laws, some here get their pantyhose in a twist...go figure.
It is pretty simple: They are going after illegal teachers. It is within their rights to do so.
Not much of argument there.
This being said, if a person comes here with a fake degree or no degree they are rolling the dice. If they get caught, they just have to take their medication like big boys and girls.
If they don't get caught, as long as they are doing a professional job, its no big deal. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:38 am Post subject: |
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I agree that there has to be some standards and it's up to Koreans to set them not me. It might be nice if they were more honest with their motivations for setting that standard ( assuming I'm right).
If the powers that be recognized that having a B.A. didn't automatically mean that the person would be a good teacher and schools provided (quality) EFL training that would improve the level of teaching, particularly for newbies, it might save them a lot of funds, both in recruiters fees to replace "bad teachers" and in lost revenue from students leaving |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Derrek wrote:
Let's get back to the original article. Why do you have such a hate-on for Canadians but disregard the crimes of which these two Americans are accused? Forging college degrees can lead to a year in jail in Canada and most American states, it is a serious offence and cheapens both your academic qualifications and mine. Working on a tourist visa is seen as a lesser crime. The nature of the "improper relations with students" of which the younger of the two is accused has yet to be defined but judging from the pictures in the article, it would seem that this man may have been having sex with girls of middle-school age.
In other words, your hatred of Canadians is causing you to turn a blind eye to a child-rapist because he is an American.
Last edited by Pyongshin Sangja on Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
In other words, your hatred of Canadians is causing you to turn a blind eye to a child-rapist because he is an American. |
Who are you asking? |
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