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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
Ya ta boy wrote
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An international city. Neutralized.
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Who would implement that? I mean who is truly neutral today about that issue, how many troops to enforce it. Would you have an international justice system and then how many years would it take to process the court cases that would ensue. Would you also make the Holy sites International and would you limit the peace keepers to those who don't belong to either religion. I really couldn't see Saudi peace keepers being neutral.
Its a great notion, but really probably unfeasible today. This is not 50 odd years ago when the world wasn't so caught up in the issue. An international city with no government control from either party, but a third party. Not to rain on your parade, but you are really asking a lot. |
Get the swiss guard to do it.  Throw in some Japanese soldiers, thais, and other neutral parties and you got yourself a peacekeeping force. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:21 am Post subject: |
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Interesting point, Bucheon but how would anyone police the Mosque on the temple mount, that is not supposed to have any foreigners in it? Who will pay for it to be an international force, they have trouble finding troops for dafur.
Anyway, its just an idea that is put out there as a way of saying Israel should give up control of East Jerusalem, not because it is really a feasible idea, once you look indepth into what it would entail. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I'm for an independent Israel, and independent Palestine and an independent Jerusalem. An international city. Neutralized. |
Its incredible that you even mention this, and others realistically forsee east jerusalem governed by an international peacekeeping force-when the area holds the holiest sites for judaism.
However..I think this will happen.That is, international jurisdiction of East Jerusalem.
The nation of Israel cannot be complete, or fulfill prophecy until the temple of jerusalem/solomon's temple, or the third temple (former, previously destroyed) is rebuilt, and the holy sacrifice (korbanot) is made again -for the first time in over 1900 years.The traditional view has held that the Temple site is located where the Muslim Dome of the Rock stands.
The 2nd temple, destroyed by the Romans, 70AD.
This restoration would potentially spark all out war between Israel and the Muslim world- unless it were to be garuanteed by an international occupation force. I think Israel will cede rule of east jerusalem in return for the allowing the reconstruction.
The proposed new temple:The dome of the rock has been relocated to mecca.
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
The proposed new temple:The dome of the rock has been relocated to mecca.
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You are an utter moron.
Do have any idea why the Dome of the Rock is where it is?
Why not move the Church of the Holy Sepulchre to Rome while you're at it?
You're not making this stuff up off of the top of your head- care to post some links so we can see where these ideas are coming from?
My bet is from the same people who use trained monkeys to turn light switches and tvs on and off on the Sabbath.
Last edited by Bulsajo on Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
The proposed new temple:The dome of the rock has been relocated to mecca.
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You are an utter moron. Do have any idea why the Dome of the Rock is where it is? |
Probably more than you, because you obviously only see the Islamic side.
It was a sacred holy site of sacrifice for the jews for millenia before the Muslims imposed their temple on top of it in the 7th century.
Long before that, Abraham nearly sacrificed isaac on the rock which forms the centrepiece of the temple.
Once again...stolen by Muslim invaders wanting to kill jews and replace/destroy all their holy sites. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:11 am Post subject: |
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So, for all the Christians and Muslims who consider Jerusalem Holy, it's just tough shit, eh?
You honestly see your post above as being possible? A viable solution to the problems of the region?
You are a dangerous fool. And I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of Israelis who would agree with me.
Compared to you Netenyahu is practically a godless commie. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
So, for all the Christians and Muslims who consider Jerusalem Holy, it's just tough shit, eh? |
Hardly. Christianity does not depend on holy sites: our bodies alone are the temple of God.
Jews do not accept this, and require a physical temple..in jerusalem.
Muslims currently have their holy sites in jerusalem fully protected. The al aqhsa mosque..the dome of the rock was under strict orders to be left untouched by israeli soldiers. Even during the intifaddah, muslims could take refuge in its vicinity knowing full well israelis wouldn't fire on them. Any destruction of it would invoke war across the islamic world. unless of course- "the war on terror" or "the final crusade" had already crushed them.
due to prophecy..the temple must be built soon. perhaps as early as 2030.
which brings me back to ancient prophecy all over again;
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains". |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:26 am Post subject: |
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So it's all about prophecy and armageddon, eh?
It's a good thing most people know better than to take religious fanatics like you seriously.
I'd like to know how many forum regulars support your proposals.
Hey Summer Wine, do you see what I mean?
Last edited by Bulsajo on Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| What's the building in the middle of the compound-looking thing? What's the support like within the country for that? |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| What's the building in the middle of the compound-looking thing? What's the support like within the country for that? |
Excellent question- how many Israelis support this?
If you'd like we could narrow it slightly to 'How many jewish Israelis support this'?
And Madonna. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
You're not making this stuff up off of the top of your head- care to post some links so we can see where these ideas are coming from?
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Not ideas. facts.
I grew up with muslim friends. I also know scripture. I also once knew and discussed with jews. My own ancestors were jews who's generations spanned Poland, Germany,netherlands, and England. Thus I am acquinted with the history. So are most muslims- they know what happened and what is expected far more than the average westerner. my surname is jewish. i also know a bit of Nostradamus, revelation. Mayan prophecy.
Its amazing how dumbed-down the modern generation have been made. set up nicely for what is to come.
Last edited by rapier on Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| Bulsajo wrote: |
You're not making this stuff up off of the top of your head- care to post some links so we can see where these ideas are coming from?
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Not ideas. facts.
I grew up with muslim friends. I also know scripture. I also once knew jews. i also know a bit of history. And Nostradamus, revelation. Mayan prophecy.
its amazing how dumbed-down the modern generation have been made. set up nicely for what is to come. |
Nice dodge, but honestly, you're not fooling anyone. Post some links regarding the moving of the Dome of the Rock to Mecca proposal. I know they're out there becuase you didn't just do up that nice little graphic in photoshop. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
Not ideas. facts.
I grew up with muslim friends. I also know scripture. I also once knew jews. i also know a bit of history. And Nostradamus, revelation. Mayan prophecy. |
So uh, that's where you got the idea that all Palestinians belong in Turkey?
Seriously Rapier, you've been around these boards for a while and never sounded like religious fanatic- come clean and tell me you're just yanking my chain... |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Also, what's the name for the proposal? The reason why I'm wondering about the internal support is because ofttimes foreigners can be more nationalistic about a country than the people themselves. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:38 am Post subject: |
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In fact, there are three religions--not just two, all of them with a pretty large variety of sects, who hold Jerusalem sacred. It can either be a zero sum game in which one holds all the power and the others are left out and unhappy about it, or you can turn the city over to UN peace-keeping forces or the like, with a council of religious leaders from all the sects in the government. It's the only sensible arrangement, which is what will defeat it.
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Who will pay for it to be an international force, they have trouble finding troops for dafur.
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I can think of a couple of billion people in the world, although I can't call them by name, who are heartily sick of religious fanatics killing each other, who would be happy to contribute 5 cents each to pay for peace-keeping forces.
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| They tried that 50 years ago, it didn't work, |
No, they didn't try that 50 years ago. Jerusalem has not been an independent city-state in modern times (or any other time that I can think of). |
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