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shortskirt_longjacket
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Location: fitz and ernie are my raison d'etre
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 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Grotto wrote: |
aHHH so it didnt have the important stuff in it like:
america won both world wars by themselves.....  |
Everybody knows that already.
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| This year they canceled the NHL season and the Canadians didn't even get mad. I don't know what it would take to upset these people, but I have a feeling it would involve mistaking them for Americans. -Steven Colbert, The Colbert Report |
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cypher
Joined: 08 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Would you believe I got a BA and MA in history at Canadian universities without ever taking a single course in Canadian history? |
Really? You don't know what you missed. My first year in university, I walk into my Canadian history course and sit down. The prof starts up...I swear he is straight from ferris bueller... bueller... bueller... macdonald... macdonald. I thought I was going to fall asleep right there. But the stuff that came out of that monotone voice was interesting enough to off set it-the sex, the drugs, the scalping. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| joe_doufu wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
| remember to emphasize an important theme: it's a nation borne [sic] of war wherein violence is seen as good if righteous (for freedom and independence and justice) |
That's a bit overly cynical... |
True, yet sympathetic in a way.
(though there's no [sic] grammatical mistake to point out, the phrase is often used)
| U.S. Army speech wrote: |
| On this day in history, 228 years ago, an assembly of brave and determined Americans met to announce to the world the birth of a new nation - a nation borne of ideals rather than of coercion |
http://www4.army.mil/otf/speech.php?story_id_key=6116
Ironically, those very ideals led to violent coercion: separatism from England. And then later the ideals led to the civil war. etc.
Non-Americans would see Americans LESS as warmongers if they understood what Americans learn about their own history. It's easier to be sympathetic with American sentiments, to even understand why so many Americans have a pro-capital punishment stance, if their history is shown in the light in which they learn it. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| joe_doufu wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
| remember to emphasize an important theme: it's a nation borne [sic] of war wherein violence is seen as good if righteous (for freedom and independence and justice) |
That's a bit overly cynical... are one of those people who thinks you're part of a "minority" "counter-culture" because you favor world peace and are opposed to racism and crime? News for you: We all grew up watching the same kinds of PSAs on TV, and generally the vast majority of people are against killing! America has a history of wars, about one every generation with only one exception - an extra long gap between the Civil War and the Spanish-American conflict - but that doesn't make us a nation that worships war.
We were isolationist for 150 years and historically have resisted being sucked into other countries' wars until we suffered highly public atrocities - the battleship Maine, Pearl harbor, 9-11. Americans can only be incited to make war by convincing them that innocent victims are suffering at the hands of evil dictators. Compare that to Europeans and Africans who constantly fight their neighbors to prove their tribe's ethnic superiority, the Japanese and Chinese empires who fought wars to expand their territory, the rich Arab states who consider killing Jews to be a sport. |
America merely spent 150 years striving for hemispheric, not global, domination. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| America merely spent 150 years striving for hemispheric, not global, domination. |
Except for CIA operations and puppet-dictatorships. Yeah. But now security and economics is more global.
"US Expands Hemispheric Trade Domination": http://www.awionline.org/pubs/Quarterly/04-53-1/531p19b.htm
My point wasn't to become critical, but to show how history explains the violence-aesthetic in American culture, a much-needed awareness I've noted among non-Americans, especially in Asia. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| America merely spent 150 years striving for hemispheric, not global, domination. |
Except for CIA operations and puppet-dictatorships. Yeah. But now security and economics is more global.
"US Expands Hemispheric Trade Domination": http://www.awionline.org/pubs/Quarterly/04-53-1/531p19b.htm
My point wasn't to become critical, but to show how history explains the violence-aesthetic in American culture, a much-needed awareness I've noted among non-Americans, especially in Asia. |
I think the 150 years in question was mostly before the creation of the CIA. |
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muggie2dammit
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Location: Ilsan, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| joe_doufu wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
| remember to emphasize an important theme: it's a nation borne [sic] of war wherein violence is seen as good if righteous (for freedom and independence and justice) |
America has a history of wars, about one every generation with only one exception - an extra long gap between the Civil War and the Spanish-American conflict - but that doesn't make us a nation that worships war.
We were isolationist for 150 years and historically have resisted being sucked into other countries' wars until we suffered highly public atrocities - the battleship Maine, Pearl harbor, 9-11. Americans can only be incited to make war by convincing them that innocent victims are suffering at the hands of evil dictators. |
Hmmm, in terms of war as "War", yes. But in terms of violence, no. Even some of the Founding Fathers characterized the American personality as aggressive and expansionist. Land-hungry, violent in their pursuit of what they wanted, and willing to do whatever it took to hold onto what they has seized; these are descriptions of Americans from the past.
Once they had stolen or seized as much as they could, America began a long period of consolidation of what they now had. This can be seen as isolationism, or more accurately, expansion into the territories now held, and consolidation of them.
Americans in the past have been aggressive and violent. It wasn't really until they recognized that they were in a position of the world's foremost military power that they turned to a more imperial approach. Over time, complacency set in. When the world is divided between the US and Russia, and thinking is based on "us" and "them", it's easy to become complacent. With the departure of Russia from the scene, the US was the solitary world power, and it was easy enough to sit back and think "We're the winners!".
9/11 changed that. And like any similar shock, people overreact. And revert to the bottom-line behavior that is encoded within our cultural heritage. Fight! War!
There's a reason the US knows it can rely on Britain most of the time - the American cultural heritage was built upon British roots. I think it was around the 17th century when British city streets were considered the most dangerous in Europe. Hard to think of it, looking at British society today. But that was the way it was, and that underlies the American heritage too. Violence.
Welcome to reality. Stake your claim - or be staked.
Muggie2 |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| joe_doufu wrote: |
| America has a history of wars, about one every generation with only one exception - an extra long gap between the Civil War and the Spanish-American conflict - but that doesn't make us a nation that worships war. |
Although not a true war--more of a weekend battle--but something relevant to a discussion of Korea, is the first U.S. military action in Korea, in 1871. In Korean, it is called the Shinmiyangyo; I have researched it for the better part of the past decade.
http://www.shinmiyangyo.org
T |
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idealjetsam
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Location: Starting up and stopping.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:12 am Post subject: Cents. |
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| joe_, the rich Arab states who consider killing Jews to be a sport. |
Dude, fellow Yank, Joe, bit of kettle-calling here, no?
Don't get me wrong, I definitely sense the overly growl-grumble-grrr tone of some of the comments in this thread, but that is what I regard as the one true, albeit in generalization, Canadian flaw: learning to discuss the U.S. without getting personal. And several annoying Canadianisms, eh?
But seriously again, they spend their whole lives watching American movies, news, TV shows: they are just as exposed as we are to the shyte that pours from Hollywood. And don't get me started on TV. The CSI family is indictment enough for how far American producers have taken the art of slickening dumb, crass and violent material and making it not only accessible to the schmuck at large, but having them believe they are viewing "smart TV". And it goes all over the world. And everybody wants more. And is therefore justification enough to invade us, as far as I'm concerned--oh, that's more violence...
And then there is the matter of how we are taught history. There is a lot of truth in what these Canadians are posting about how we are mis-educated. To, humbly, quote myself from my personal statement for grad school:
"Jesus Christ, then should we tear down the Vietnam Veterans Memorial? That was a war where we did some pretty f-u-c-k-e-d up s-h-i-t, wasn��t it? What the hell��s the matter with you?�� These colorful comments pretty well sum up the successes of my high school career. In an argument with a U.S. History teacher whose name I cannot remember, I snapped the above in the middle of his rant about how the Yasakuni Shrine in Japan was an insult to veterans like him. That man was failing in two colossal ways: by advertising a shaky sense of ethics and by not helping us to better deal with ourselves and our humanity.
From discussions with other history majors while I was at R****** University, I guess we all have a similar incident in our past, a time when something somebody said, somebody wrote or somebody did outraged us about how people were imparting humanity��s narrative. I remember ��the lies our teachers told us�� being one of the rallying points in discussions among students of widely disparate backgrounds—Muslim, Sikh, Christian; black, Arab, white; gay, straight, bi—the one thing everyone could agree on was that at some point they had been fed outrageous spins on history as ��facts,�� and we could all trace our affinity for history back to at least that moment.
The profanity was real in the submitted statement. Edgy, aren't I? But more to my point, here are a couple of snippets from one of the later paragraphs:
"...I assume that my interests will become much more specific while I am a student, but I am broadly interested in the teaching of world history; helping students place [American] society and others in a world-context and work within that context, especially in regard to the Middle East and Muslim cultures; the incorporation of writing and peace education into the teaching of history..."
"...The idealistic or ��impractical�� elements of my purpose for attending T******* C****** and teaching history are best encapsulated in the quote from a poem by Al-Tijani Yusuf Bashir that I used to introduce my undergraduate thesis: ��If you can see, see an unseen world of teeming nations in the clay; Souls bustling and spirits swarming in the water.�� Basically, the world is a bloody mess and, in general, we [Americans] make a hash out of recognizing this and devising appropriate and effective responses..."
Which brings us back to the Canadian comments on how we are educated, and your comment about those who view killing Jews as sport--and current world events:
By being trained through largely groundless conceptions, we are a country endemic in preconception, and we get almost effortlessly herded to war every generation.
And, as context may matter to some: I am a straight, white, Irish/Polish-American, raised-Catholic, Buddhist, male and I have served in the U.S. Army, but never with the Taliban. But I do adore hummus.
Happy New Year.
Let's hope it's a good one without any fear. War is over if you want it.
--J. Lennon
End of song. |
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noguri
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Location: korea
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: Native Americans or Indians? |
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I think you got a great tip from Joe Doufou about the free lesson plans you can get from Discovery Channel's website. Also, you should check the Library of Congress' website. THey also have free lesson plans for elementary and middle school levels.
Regarding the fact that the book still uses the term "Indians" and not "Native Americans..."
I work in an anthropology department and a colleague of mine who spent years living with the Kiowa in Oklahoma has assured me that American Indians still call themselves either "Indians" or "American Indians." He said they don't go along with the "Native American" term, because they think that's a term whites have developed in order to make themselves feel better about displacing the Indians.
As for the absence of phrases such as "passage to India" and whatnot, can't you just add those phrases in yourself?
Personally, I try use music when I teach. For example, I use the song "Ira Hayes" written by Peter LaFarge but I use the version sung by Johnny Cash. I explain to the students how the Indians were treated by the U.S. gov't and the seeming irony that Indians like Ira Hayes became U.S. military heroes, but their people continued to be mistreated.
You have to find a song the kids can relate to. For example, W. Guthrie's song "This Land is Your Land" could be compared or contrasted with the Korean song, "Dokdonin ori ttang"--"Dokdo is Our Land." That could give kids a flavor of what American national sentiments are...you could tie this in with the unit you teach on westward expansion... |
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idealjetsam
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Location: Starting up and stopping.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Native Americans or Indians? |
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| noguri wrote: |
I
You have to find a song the kids can relate to. For example, W. Guthrie's song "This Land is Your Land" could be compared or contrasted with the Korean song, "Dokdonin ori ttang"--"Dokdo is Our Land." That could give kids a flavor of what American national sentiments are...you could tie this in with the unit you teach on westward expansion... |
Are you really suggesting it's a good idea to promote nationalist sentiments? (Yes, I added the "-ist". Fail to see the difference.)
Korean students are already well overloaded with ultra-nationalist propaganda and misinformation in the classrooms, some outside condonement for the brainwashing is just what they need.
Nationalism is not only an ugly left-over from last century, it's obsolete. By teaching any student to continue to organize the world through nation-states or autonomous cultural identities you are retarding their chances for future success in a world that is, but for rabble-rousing, leaving these frameworks behind. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| There's a reason the US knows it can rely on Britain most of the time |
Yes, there is. It's because before Dec. 7, '41 Churchill figured out the way to 'use' American military power was to surrender British foreign policy to Washington's leadership. LBJ summed it up pretty good when he said you have more influence if you are inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in. |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Native Americans or Indians? |
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| noguri wrote: |
Regarding the fact that the book still uses the term "Indians" and not "Native Americans..."
I work in an anthropology department and a colleague of mine who spent years living with the Kiowa in Oklahoma has assured me that American Indians still call themselves either "Indians" or "American Indians." He said they don't go along with the "Native American" term, because they think that's a term whites have developed in order to make themselves feel better about displacing the Indians. |
Being American Indian (Little Traverse Bay Bands of Odawa Indians), we do refer to ourselves, generally, as "Indian" to non-Indians. To ourselves, it's usually whatever native name a tribe has for itself. In the case of the tribes of the Three Fires (Ojibwa, Odawa, Potawatami), it's Anishnaabek.
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krats1976
Joined: 14 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Native Americans or Indians? |
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| noguri wrote: |
I think you got a great tip from Joe Doufou about the free lesson plans you can get from Discovery Channel's website. Also, you should check the Library of Congress' website. THey also have free lesson plans for elementary and middle school levels.
Regarding the fact that the book still uses the term "Indians" and not "Native Americans..."
...
You have to find a song the kids can relate to. For example, W. Guthrie's song "This Land is Your Land" could be compared or contrasted with the Korean song, "Dokdonin ori ttang"--"Dokdo is Our Land." That could give kids a flavor of what American national sentiments are...you could tie this in with the unit you teach on westward expansion... |
Excellent suggestions. The Smithsonian also has a lot of internet lesson plans.
Really, there are TONS of lesson plan resources online. What you use really just depends on what you want to put into it.
For example, here's a site that has an entire K-2 US History curriculum: http://www.eduref.org/Virtual/Lessons/crossroads/sec3/
Just google "US History Lesson Plans Elementary" or something similar and you'll find plenty of material. |
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