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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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 Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| joe_doufu wrote: |
| Yeah but, somehow, America is more effectively governed. I'm talking economically here. USA has half the population of Europe but significantly greater economic power, greater foreign + military influence, bigger and better universities and corporations, and fewer repressed immigrants rioting and blowing themselves up. How about that? |
How about it? It's got nothing to do with God being dead or otherwise. It's a whole other conversation. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Alias wrote: |
| Christians are persecuted in places like Sudan and Egypt. Not Amsterdam or Boston. |
And muslims are persecuted in Boston. We are not talking about the Muslim world, we are talking about Western Society (and more specifically how God is dying in Europe). I have an even bigger beef with those places than I do with Christianity, but that is another topic and not relevant. |
Sooooo,
you are drawing a moral line between Christians being killed in Sudan, or totally driven out of the country in Egypt (google Coptic and Egypt and edamacate yourself) with what, spray paint on Mosques in Boston?
Camon, get real.
Though I am an atheist, this is exactly why the decline of the Christian story is so problematic. Before the death of god, to use the language of this thread, there was at least a semblance of a guide to how we are to act, behave and think. But, with the triumph of secularism, which is overwhelmingly a good thing, statements about fundamental morality become nearly impossible to make. This dude apparently thinks that differences between Boston and Sudan are relative, and how do we argue with him (other than to force him to wander Sudan alone with a big cross on his back...)? It is his opinion and we can hardly scientifically quantify his lunacy.
Sure, you have "problems" with those areas, and good on you for that. But you dare to compare so effortlessly the profound suffering being experienced in a country that is currently experiencing a GENOCIDE with the goings on in Boston? |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:50 am Post subject: |
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This is turning into a rather strange thread...
The author that the thread host quotes seems to have confused the legal and constitutional issue of separation of church and state, with the survival or prevalence of Christianity.
It seems like a strange generalization to make, when you take into account church membership and participation varies from country to country in Europe. Even a strongly Catholic country like Ireland or Poland clearly separates church and state in constitutional matters. Doing so doesn't prevent Christians from practicing their religion as often as they want or as deeply as they want.
Down through the centuries Europe has had a lot more religious wars and strife than the Americas have had. It seems a logical outcome of their history to separate church and state. And what about the contributions of the Jewish tradition to European civilization? |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Alias wrote: |
| Christians are persecuted in places like Sudan and Egypt. Not Amsterdam or Boston. |
And muslims are persecuted in Boston. We are not talking about the Muslim world, we are talking about Western Society (and more specifically how God is dying in Europe). I have an even bigger beef with those places than I do with Christianity, but that is another topic and not relevant. |
Sooooo,
you are drawing a moral line between Christians being killed in Sudan, or totally driven out of the country in Egypt (google Coptic and Egypt and edamacate yourself) with what, spray paint on Mosques in Boston?
Camon, get real.
Though I am an atheist, this is exactly why the decline of the Christian story is so problematic. Before the death of god, to use the language of this thread, there was at least a semblance of a guide to how we are to act, behave and think. But, with the triumph of secularism, which is overwhelmingly a good thing, statements about fundamental morality become nearly impossible to make. This dude apparently thinks that differences between Boston and Sudan are relative, and how do we argue with him (other than to force him to wander Sudan alone with a big cross on his back...)? It is his opinion and we can hardly scientifically quantify his lunacy.
Sure, you have "problems" with those areas, and good on you for that. But you dare to compare so effortlessly the profound suffering being experienced in a country that is currently experiencing a GENOCIDE with the goings on in Boston? |
One, I know the suffering better than you as I taught a myriad of Sudanese refugees in Canada whose English was good enough to let me know why they were in Canada.
You drew the line, not me. There was no comparison, I was showing that persecution happens all over the place. I never talked about levels of persecution. I guess I need to make my ideas more detailed for people like you. I don't think anyone would compare those two. I am sorry if you need massive amounts of information before assuming and making wild accusations. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I do.
You did "draw a line".
Christians are persecuted in places like Sudan and Egypt. Not Amsterdam or Boston.
And muslims are persecuted in Boston.
Perhaps quantifying such a statement would be advisable, no?
Especially for people like me.
Also, I find it interesting that every time someone on this board makes a statement someone is bound to respond something like "I lived it". What a worldly and eclectic bunch we are. |
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