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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Letters are mine...
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American soldiers in Iraq [A]crash a wedding and pump a little boy full of lead in front of his mother.
They [B]kill dozens of innocent people with random machine-gun fire, [C]shoot the groom in the head, [D]and drag those left alive to Abu Ghraib prison -- where [E]a Jewish doctor cuts out their organs, which he sells to rich people in New York, London and Tel Aviv. |
It isn't so much A, B, C, or D, that concern me as much as the neverending Jewish-conspiracy-thinking so deeply embedded in E.
I'm surprised no one has noted this on this thread yet. |
Gopher, I think no one has said anything about E because it is one of the most outrageous things I've seen in this thread. I know for me it wasn't even worth talking about, I just ignored it  |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| I think no one has said anything about E because it is one of the most outrageous things I've seen in this thread. I know for me it wasn't even worth talking about, I just ignored it. |
That's fine, but I wonder how many in Turkish cinemas are watching it, and nodding their heads in agreement...
People do not put scenes, dialog, ideas, or even music into films randomly or by accident.
Last edited by Gopher on Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not a moral relativist. What I'm saying is that it's impossible for us to pretend to know what would offend someone from another country. Things that would slip by someone else could offend you if it's about the US and you know it to be false, and the opposite would be the case in a movie about another country.
I consider this to be around the same level as the Pentagon in the US and the military in France changing scripts around in the exact same way whenever it suits them. Can't recall the movie title but there was one that was to have the guy who betrayed the main character be French but since the French army had provided logistics support or something it was switched to a Canadian. So what? All this thread is is proof that people see the world the way they want to, and I already knew that.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/qa/2004/09/09_403.html |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| I'm not a moral relativist...people see the world the way they want to, and I already knew that. |
When you give equal credibility to all claims and perceptions, you are being a moral relativist. Some things are universal, however.
And this, again, is not simply "point of view":
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American soldiers in Iraq crash a wedding and pump a little boy full of lead in front of his mother.
They kill dozens of innocent people with random machine-gun fire, shoot the groom in the head, and drag those left alive to Abu Ghraib prison -- where a Jewish doctor cuts out their organs, which he sells to rich people in New York, London and Tel Aviv. |
Here's a direct link to the film's webpage, with additional info, pics, and trailers.
http://www.valleyofthewolvesiraq.com/high/main.html
Also see this article, excerpted below...
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A host of Turkish celebrities and politicians joined the film's stars at its Hollywood-style premiere on Tuesday night in Istanbul and Turkish guards in fake U.S. military uniforms maintained security.
Many in the audience said the film rang true.
"This film shows the reality of the oppression in Iraq," said university student Emrah Adiyaman as he posed for a photo in front of Hummer vehicles and weapons used in the movie.
"This is an important film. It should make Americans see why the world doesn't like them," said businessman Sabahattin Can. |
http://entertainment.tv.yahoo.com/entnews/va/20060201/113881218200.html |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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keninseoul
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: really? how soon they forget |
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The WWII-era Japanese are portrated as they are because of factual events, not only Pearl Harbor and incidents like the "Batan Death March," but through other events as well, such as their behavior as occupiers in China and Korea, for example.
The U.S. govt and military have done nothing comparable, not in the current Iraqi War, or anywhere else, for that matter. |
1) Indian wars? more like genocide
2) the dropping of nuclear weapons on civilian 'targets' in Japan
3) Vietnam war; chemical agents - namely Agent Orange
4) use of war to gain territory/control (i.e Texas, New Mexico, Cuba,.....) |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: really? how soon they forget |
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| keninseoul wrote: |
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The WWII-era Japanese are portrated as they are because of factual events, not only Pearl Harbor and incidents like the "Batan Death March," but through other events as well, such as their behavior as occupiers in China and Korea, for example.
The U.S. govt and military have done nothing comparable, not in the current Iraqi War, or anywhere else, for that matter. |
1) Indian wars? more like genocide
2) the dropping of nuclear weapons on civilian 'targets' in Japan
3) Vietnam war; chemical agents - namely Agent Orange
4) use of war to gain territory/control (i.e Texas, New Mexico, Cuba,.....) |
I know America has done some stupid things (to be honest, I see America as the stupidest of the Post WWII First World countries) but comparing them to the PreWWII Japan is way off. The Indian wars were bad, but still not like the Japanese. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, incredibly bad calls along with Agent Orange, but you have to remember intent. What was Japan's intent and America's intent when doing these things? |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| cue entrance of Rapier. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| cue entrance of Rapier. |
...and the rest of the critics and arm-chair quarterbacks who just know that they would have done better had they been calling the shots in Washington during the Second World War and the Cold War...
Laogaiguk: I'll never understand how people who hold the views on the U.S. that you voice here ("the stupidest of the postWar developed nation-states") can possibly reconcile this with their concurrent belief that Washington was cold-bloodedly masterminding all kinds of bad events and pulling everyone's strings behind the scenes...
Mithridates: you're way off base on this.
"People will see the world the way they want to see it" helps us understand why some see "terrorists" or "freedom fighters" while others just see "guerrillas" or "insurgents."
So far so good.
But when you think that a Turkish film that shows the U.S. military murdering people and supplying Jewish organ peddlers as just a matter of opinion or perspective, you need to rethink your position.
Last edited by Gopher on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:42 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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By Yigal Schleifer | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
ISTANBUL, TURKEY � The year is 2007. After a clash with Turkish forces in northern Iraq, US troops stage a surprise attack. Reeling, Turkey turns to Russia and the European Union, who turn back the American onslaught.
This is the plot of "Metal Storm," one of the fastest- selling books in Turkish history. The book is clearly sold as fiction, but its premise has entered Turkey's public discourse in a way that sometimes seems to blur the line between fantasy and reality.
"The Foreign Ministry and General Staff are reading it keenly," Murat Yetkin, a columnist for the Turkish daily newspaper Radikal, recently wrote. "All cabinet members also have it."
Several other columnists have also written about the book, suggesting its depiction of a clash between the two NATO allies could become a reality. Serdar Turgut, the editor of Aksam, one of Turkey's largest newspapers, penned a recent column that took one of Metal Storm's premises - that members of Skull and Bones, the secret society that President Bush joined as a student at Yale, has taken control of US foreign policy - and presented it as fact.
"Powerful people, nearly all of whom are members of a secret 'sect,' are aiming to bring a radical change to the order of the world," Turgut wrote.
He further suggested that the US military is developing technology that would allow it to trigger earthquakes, something that will eventually be used against Turkey.
The book has arrived at a time when anti-American sentiments are running high in Turkey. A BBC poll taken last month found that 82 percent of Turks believe Bush's reelection made the world a more dangerous place, the highest figure in any country surveyed. During her recent visit, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice expressed concern about the issue to Turkish officials.
Meanwhile, there is increasing tension between Ankara and Washington. Turkey is frustrated with what it claims is US failure to take military action against the separatists of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), who are holed up in the mountains of northern Iraq. The country is also concerned about events in the oil-rich Iraqi city of Kirkuk, where the Turks say Iraqi Kurds are staging a power grab as a prelude to the creation of an independent Kurdish state, something it views as a serious threat.
Egemen Bagis, a member of Turkey's ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) and chairman of the Turkey-US friendship caucus in parliament, says the unpopular war in neighboring Iraq continues to fuel anti-American feelings.
"This public feeling, this public tension, is not any different from what is happening in other European countries or other Middle Eastern countries," Mr. Bagis says.
But American officials in Turkey say the kinds of things they are hearing represent something different.
"It's not an isolated phenomenon - you see it all across Europe, but it is more of an exaggerated phenomenon here," says one US official. "I'm not sure in Europe you would see the manifestations that you see here, like this book."
Adds another US diplomat, who declined to be named: "Just like sex sells, anti-Americanism sells right now. Unfortunately, it's nothing to laugh at, because it's damaging to both American national interest and to Turkish national interests. We're really pulling our hair out trying to figure out how to deal with this."
A particularly striking feature of the book - one that may say a lot about recent changes in Turkish opinion - is who saves Turkey from defeat: Europe and Russia.
For decades, the European powers were derided in Turkey as the ones that tried to carve the country up after World War 1. Russia, which invaded Turkey in the early 20th century, had always been viewed here with great suspicion. In fact, the potato-and-mayonnaise concoction known in most places as Russian salad is called American salad here.
"In all the surveys, increasingly we see people more anti-American. What is different today is that they are less anti-European," says Ali Carkoglu, a political scientist at Istanbul's Sabanci University.
"Back in the [19]70s, they wouldn't even trust the Europeans," he says. "The change has been very swift."
For Metal Storm's two authors, Burak Turna and Orkun Ucar, success has come swiftly. This is their first published work.
Sitting in an Istanbul cafe, the two say the novel came out of the conviction that the battle they depict is a strong possibility. The book, they say, is their contribution to Turkey's well-being.
"Everybody was thinking about a clash like this in their subconscious," but it was articulated by Metal Storm, says Mr. Turna, who used to work in an US-owned textile company but now devotes himself full-time to writing.
Turna does not see the book as fiction. "From our point of view, it's a philosophical and scientific calculation," he says. "It's more than a novel." |
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0215/p01s04-woeu.html |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:15 am Post subject: |
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*edit* apologies Gopher. I was complaining about your multiple posts, but did so in a way that was far out of line. You deserved better.
Last edited by The Lemon on Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe they are preping thier citizens for a possible outcome in Iraq. Civil War occurs in Iraq and the country splits into 3 regions. Kurdistan is one of the regions with US troops based there through agreement with the Kurdish Government. Turkey carries out attacks against the kurds which brings them into conflict with the US forces in the region.
They can say, hey didn't you see that movie, we warned you that it could happen. Just a hypothetical situation but  |
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xeno439
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| xeno439 wrote: |
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*shrug*
Looks like Russians portrayed in James Bond.
* double shrug *
Or the Japanese in 'Pearl Harbor'. |
Both are good points. But it sucks when its happening to you. Oh well, karma is a b1tch I guess. |
The WWII-era Japanese are portrated as they are because of factual events, not only Pearl Harbor and incidents like the "Batan Death March," but through other events as well, such as their behavior as occupiers in China and Korea, for example.
The U.S. govt and military have done nothing comparable, not in the current Iraqi War, or anywhere else, for that matter.
Karma? What exactly are you talking about? |
I wasn't aware that this movie was made by the Turkish government. |
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